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Old December 18th, 2016, 04:20 AM   #3401
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Saying that, given two things, the one that takes more time or skill to be designed or delivered (let's assume this is an objective characteristic; but I'm not sure at all whether, given two tasks, the one that is simpler to me is necessarily the one that's simpler for you) is the better one to me is like saying that blue is better than green.
If better by definition is some sort of "more complex", then it's just like saying that blue is "bluer" than green — by the way T.W. Adorno, which as a philosopher I largely admire, tried to give an absolute musicological definition of this kind; guess what?, he failed.
If better has a meaning on its own, then: better for who?, and on which basis?

In order to be sure that I got your point, please let me ask you a question; I will leave brutalism apart and stick to things that have been given the attribute of classic/classical, at least in the broadest sense (barely a sense, if you ask me: the classicism of the Guaranty seems quite un-classic to me): which one between the Guaranty and the Parthenon would take you more effort to reproduce?, and which one you'd say is "better"?

PS: still: Whitney Houston amazing?, please.
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Old December 18th, 2016, 07:38 PM   #3402
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Birmingham, Great Britain (arch. John Madin, 1978)

54 Hagley Road - 6 by Dauvit Alexander, on Flickr

54 Hagley Road - 5 by Dauvit Alexander, on Flickr

54 Hagley Road - 4 by Dauvit Alexander, on Flickr

54 Hagley Road - 3 by Dauvit Alexander, on Flickr

54 Hagley Road - 1 by Dauvit Alexander, on Flickr
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Old December 18th, 2016, 07:43 PM   #3403
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Valencia, Spain



photo by Klaas Vermaas
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Old December 18th, 2016, 07:58 PM   #3404
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Bellevue Hospital's new building, New York, USA (architects: Katz, Waisman, Weber, Strauss; Joseph Blumenkranz; Pomerance & Breines; Feld & Timoney)

nyc - waterside plaza revisited 2 by Addison Godel, on Flickr
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Old December 18th, 2016, 11:20 PM   #3405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantropa View Post
Saying that, given two things, the one that takes more time or skill to be designed or delivered (let's assume this is an objective characteristic; but I'm not sure at all whether, given two tasks, the one that is simpler to me is necessarily the one that's simpler for you) is the better one to me is like saying that blue is better than green.
No, that's a childish analogy. Imagine you were to build a house and hire two architects. One gives you a series of highly precise plans, realistic renders with a high level of post production editions, different views, design alternatives, and a detailed list of materials and costs. The other gives you a simple sketchup screenshot and the bill.

Which one is better? There's an obvious, undeniable answer.
Which one do you like? That's up to you, your problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantropa View Post
In order to be sure that I got your point, please let me ask you a question; I will leave brutalism apart and stick to things that have been given the attribute of classic/classical, at least in the broadest sense (barely a sense, if you ask me: the classicism of the Guaranty seems quite un-classic to me): which one between the Guaranty and the Parthenon would take you more effort to reproduce?, and which one you'd say is "better"?
Ok, talking only about design, not construction or structures, I'd say Guaranty building. Why? Considering that both buildings are highly ornamented, Guaranty has a wider amount of different ornaments which are also more complex. We can safely assume Louis Sullivan had to plan and design each of them in an enormously precise way so it would work perfectly. The whole of the facade has this ornaments, not just a smaller area, which is the case of the Parthenon, only the entablature is ornamented. Of course we cannot see if the interior was as ornamented as the entablature, or more simple as the columns, but I guess we are only talking about the exterior, in order to be fair (even though the Parthenon is pretty much destroyed). Even after saying that the only ornamented part of the Parthenon is its entablature, we find that its frieze is quite simple. Of course, it's the doric order we are talking about. The time range is quite big and the styles are extremely different, so I think making the comparisson would be very difficult. A comparisson between doric, ionic and corinthian order, for example, would be more correct in this case.

Anyway, basing on what I said before, it is clear to me that the ornaments on Guaranty Building are much more intricate, found in larger quantities and variations, so in this case Guaranty building is superior in that aspect.

All that of course without considering their contexts. Obviously the construction of the Parthenon was enormously more difficult than that of Guaranty Building, but we're not discussing about technology or construction methods.

This may or may not be related to how do you like any of these two buildings, but again, that would be your own opinion and taste.

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PS: still: Whitney Houston amazing?, please.
Are you somehow denying her impressive vocal range? Or the power of her voice? Or her skill to dominate higher notes? If so, that would impressively naive. I just made that example between two musicians that show great quality in their work, and I happen to like.

------

There's a very thin line between simplicity and mediocrity, and many modern architects (and painters, authors, musicians, etc) are crossing that line and embracing mediocrity as if it was something more possitive.
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Old December 19th, 2016, 12:51 AM   #3406
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Also, just to make an idea of how I feel architecture has deviated in the last couple of centuries, I made this chart. Of course it's incomplete, because a hundred styles and movements may be missing, but you get an idea.
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Old December 22nd, 2016, 08:20 PM   #3407
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College for Creative Studies, Detroit, MI, USA (1975)
Architect: William Kessler







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Old December 22nd, 2016, 08:49 PM   #3408
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Looks a little bit sci-fi, especially on the first photo.
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Old December 22nd, 2016, 11:48 PM   #3409
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All Saints' Roman Catholic Church, Budapest, Hungary (1977, arch. István Szabó)



photo by wikimedia













source & more photos
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Old December 25th, 2016, 05:44 PM   #3410
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Town Hall, Gronau, Germany (1976)
Architect: Harald Deilmann

















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Old December 27th, 2016, 11:44 PM   #3411
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I really like this photo of Lasdun's National Theatre.
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Old December 28th, 2016, 12:49 AM   #3412
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^
I like it a lot, it looks like an abstract (or better precisionist) painting
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Old December 28th, 2016, 11:10 PM   #3413
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Busan, South Korea

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Klocuch z koreańskiego Pusan.




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Old December 30th, 2016, 09:18 PM   #3414
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The archive in Štip, Macedonia (designed by architect Georgi Konstantinovski, built in 1976)
An article on Macedonian architecture website marh.mk about this building:

Historical archive Štip / Georgi Konstantinovski

Location: 35 Sane Georgiev str., Štip

Author: Georgi Konstantinovski

Year: 1975-76

Sources: "An architect's way 1958-2013", "Култура" Publishing house, Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A brief translation: The archive in Štip was founded in 1956, and moved to the new purpose-built building with a reading room in May 1976. The structure is composed of two different buildings connected with a bridge on the first floor. Besides reading room, it has a depot, buffet, offices, processing rooms...







Ground floor plan
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Old December 30th, 2016, 10:11 PM   #3415
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Real pity that we cannot find better photos of this building.
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Old January 1st, 2017, 03:27 AM   #3416
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Brutalist house in Gotland, Sweden, integrating a former bunker






















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Old January 3rd, 2017, 08:16 PM   #3417
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Heilig Geist Church, Emmerich, Germany (1966)
Architect: Dieter Georg Baumewerd




















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Old January 3rd, 2017, 10:57 PM   #3418
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Oh, wow, so surreal and out of this world with those threes in front of the church. And the interior is so... abstract
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Old January 3rd, 2017, 11:10 PM   #3419
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Valencia, Spain





by Klaas Vermaas
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Old January 4th, 2017, 03:17 AM   #3420
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A monument in Skopje, Macedonia.


by Tinatin Atinati https://www.flickr.com/photos/atinat...n/photostream/
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