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Old July 15th, 2010, 07:23 PM   #21
pesto
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Not to start trouble, but do Turks count as non-EU? They have applied for membership, but I admit they are culturally different. But, still, do you then switch them all to EU in one day when they enter the EU? Seems artificial.

Eastern Europeans are another mixed bag, with many counting as EU, but Russians and Ukrainians not counting.
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Old July 15th, 2010, 08:47 PM   #22
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Under German statistics, EU immigrants to Germany also count as "people with migration background"; they make up about one quarter of the share including ethnic Poles and Romanians as the two biggest groups.

Of course Turks count as non-EU.
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Old July 15th, 2010, 11:32 PM   #23
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That methodology makes some sense. If and when Turkey joins the EU, the resident Turks in Germany move into the middle group of immigrants (intra-EU transfers).

In any event, you probably have to break down by ethnicity and income level to determine what sort of assistance is necessary to integrate smoothly.
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Old July 15th, 2010, 11:41 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kato2k8 View Post
Although of course two-thirds of those with migration background are ethnic Turks. And the other third isn't that diverse either, with most people being ethnic Germans from the former Soviet Union or Eastern Europe.
That's nonsense. Turks make up 16 % of Germany's population with a migration background. Russians and Ukrainians account for about 5 %.

The immigrant make-up of German cities varies significantly. Frankfurt is the most diverse with the highest percentage of non-Europeans. Hamburg also has a diverse immigrant population but an overall lower percentage of immigrants than other major cities. Munich, Stuttgart and Cologne are heavily European-dominated (including Turks and Russians).
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Old July 17th, 2010, 10:22 AM   #25
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This data is from 2006 so it might be a bit dated. But co9ulnd't find more recent data.
The group of people with migration background in Frankfurt is quite heterogeneous and does not consist of a single group such as Turks.

People with migration background as a percentage of total Frankfurt population:
EU citizen - 6% (Italians, Greeks etc.)
non EU European citizen - 11% (Russians, Turks, Swiss etc)
other citizenship - 6% (Chinese, American, African countries etc.)
Germans (german passport) with migration background - 12%
Germans (german passport) without migration background - 63%



Foreigner groups (foreign passport) as a percentage of total foreigners in Frankfurt:
Turks - 19.4%
Italians - 8.6%
Serbs - 6.7%
Poland - 5.5%
Greeks - 4.1%
Morocco - 3.9%
Bosnia - 3.2%
Spain - 2.9%
other nationalities - 38.4% (everything from American/ Japanese business men, Chinese student to Thai girls).



http://www.frankfurt.de/sixcms/media...sstudie_08.pdf
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Last edited by goschio; July 17th, 2010 at 10:40 AM.
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Old July 17th, 2010, 01:01 PM   #26
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Turks are somewhat overrepresented in that statistic as they are less likely than other groups to apply for German citizenship.

This is the make-up of Frankfurt's foreign-born population as of 2005:

EU - 26%

- Italy - 6 %

Turkey - 13%
Asia and Oceania- 17%

- Middle East / Central Asia - 5%
- South and South East Asia - 7%
- other Asia and Oceania - 5%

Africa - 11%
Americas - 3 %
country of origin unknown - 16 %

Last edited by tk780; July 17th, 2010 at 01:08 PM.
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Old July 17th, 2010, 01:02 PM   #27
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Old July 17th, 2010, 08:18 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tk780 View Post
Turks are somewhat overrepresented in that statistic as they are less likely than other groups to apply for German citizenship.
Actually, percentage-wise they are more likely to apply for German citizenship than most EU member citizens.

Makeup of Mannheim's foreign citizen population:

Turkey: 30%
EU-15 : 23%
Balkans: 18% (former Yugoslavia plus Albania, Bulgaria, Romania)
Former SU: 4%
Other Europe: 10% (other EU members plus non-EU EEC members)

Asia: 8% (incl. Middle East, India and Oceania; without former SU and Turkey)
America: 3% (North and South)
Africa: 3%

Among 2nd-generation and naturalized immigrants, the Turkish proportion is slightly higher than that (about 36%), while the EU-15 share is significantly lower (14%); the former SU share is twice the above value due to the large number of Heim-ins-Reich-Flüchtlinge in the 90s.
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Old August 28th, 2010, 11:06 AM   #29
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Hey, just saw this thread. Pity a bit late though...

I guess you have made up your mind, and it wasn't Frankfurt otherwise we would have seen you again here. But if not, and you're still checking, well, if you have lived in Sydney then give Frankfurt a miss. It is nowhere near as lively as Sydney, nor as interesting.

Frankfurt is a practical town. It works, and where it needs to work, it does it well. You have good transport, good infrastucture, good shopping etc etc. But nothing is above "good". Ok, well, the infrastructure is generally better than Sydney, but Sydney is more exciting and has a far greater buzz.

What is good about Frankfurt is the whole metropolitan region called the Rhein Main. Where in Sydney, all the good bits are in downtown and the small area of inner suburbs and then the beaches, once you get into the real suburbs where most people live it's pretty boring and often quite ugly.

The Rhein Main on the other hand is full of some wonderful towns and cities. None especially exciting (they are all smaller than Frankfurt afterall) but if you were to compare say Parramatta or Wiesbaden, well, there is no comparison.

Griesheim is quite far from central Frankfurt. In a Sydney context, it's way out in the Western Suburbs. It's nearest major center is Darmstadt which is quite a nice city and about 30minutes from central Frankfurt. But it's not a major urban area itself.

There are much more interesting cities in Germany which are far livelier. Hamburg and Berlin for instance are simply magnificient places. A person from Sydney would not feel like they have dropped off the map if they went to those two cities, unlike in Frankfurt.

As many have pointed out in this thread, the money though is in the south. Basically, from Frankfurt heading down. Munich is another popular city for many people, but I personally find it a bit stuffy and conservative. Imagine living in Queensland without the sunshine, the beaches or the frozen beer.

My personal reccomendation is that if you do move to Germany, head for Berlin or Hamburg if you want fantastic, lively cities. Frankfurt is somewhere to work and be comfortable, but you will most likely long for something a bit more.
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Old August 29th, 2010, 10:14 PM   #30
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Since you don't speak german, it is likely that you will be more with the expat crowd. If you would like to have social interaction with germans, it is better to know german. Germans generally have a few very close friends and that's it, the others are just social acquaintances...so to be part of that circle, language would help. Other way is joining some activity which people do together like some hobby...generally such clubs also take their hobbys quite seriously...that is another way of expanding your friend circle...otherwise as per my experience winters in germany are generally quite boring 9with you coming from sunny australia)...but I did not live in a large city (Frankfurt isn't that large..just 300,000 I believe..) but a smaller one, so the night life was limited....
On another note, germans will generally complain about every small thing even though they live a pretty comfortable life, german forumers please refute me.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 01:28 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam_india View Post
...but I did not live in a large city (Frankfurt isn't that large..just 300,000 I believe..) but a smaller one, so the night life was limited....
Frankfurt official city proper has around 650,000 inhabitans and the urban built up area close to 2 million. Total metro area is a over 4 million.
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Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.

Matthew 7:25
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 04:42 AM   #32
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I want to study in Germany for a semester or perhaps a master's degree. Which city would you recommend me to go? If it helps, I'm a sucker for classic architecture. By 2 years I will have a quite satisfactory level of German. I just want to know which may be the easiest city to adapt as a mexican.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 08:48 AM   #33
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see www.daad.de
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Old September 1st, 2010, 05:13 AM   #34
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Thanks
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Old December 5th, 2010, 11:55 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme View Post
Griesheim is quite far from central Frankfurt. In a Sydney context, it's way out in the Western Suburbs. It's nearest major center is Darmstadt which is quite a nice city and about 30minutes from central Frankfurt. But it's not a major urban area itself.
Just to mention it (belatedly), there are two Griesheims. One is the one mentioned by Justme next to Darmstadt, the other one is an actual part of Frankfurt. Located between Westend and Höchst, 3 minutes by S-Bahn from Frankfurt Central Station.
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Old December 8th, 2010, 06:36 PM   #36
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Frankfurt, Berlin and Hamburg are Germany's most ethnically diverse cities in regard of the diversity of immigrants, these cities have the largest number of Black and Asian immigrants: Berlin has large Turkish, Arab, Kurdish, Russian, Vietnamese communities, and a substantial grown and rising African/Afro-German community, Hamburg is similiar to Berlin, except that there are more South Asians than Vietnamese people.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 02:04 AM   #37
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Berlin is NOT ethnically varied. The city is a mix of Germans, Turks and Vietnamese people. You won't find people from North/Latin America or from the Arab countries, for example. Nor will you find too many Indians or Chinese. Actually you'll find MANY Spanish tourists, but those are tourists and they don't count.

Berlin is culturally diverse, but it does not mean by any ways that it is ethnically diverse - and it is not indeed.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 10:55 AM   #38
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@schmidt: Berlin does have a rather significant Arab population share - at least in comparison to the rest of Germany.

Official Berlin statistics, shares of migrant populations (total 24.957% of population):

- from EU : 6.869% of population
- from Turkey : 5.103% of population
- from Soviet Union : 2.788% of population
- from Arabic countries : 1.905% of population
- from Yugoslavia : 1.833% of population
- from Vietnam : 0.567% of population
- from USA : 0.515% of population
- from other countries : 5.376% of population

as of June 30th 2010. Includes ethnic Germans who themselves or at least one of whose parents were born in these areas outside Germany. Latin America is somewhere in those last 5.376%. North America (including Canada) outscores Vietnam.

@hadrett32:

Any city with at least 20% migrant population in Germany will have citizens from at least 90% of nations on this entire planet. In Berlin it's supposedly 189 nations.
For comparison to the above, West German cities like Frankfurt, Stuttgart or Mannheim have migrant populations in the range of 35-40% though. Even Berlin-Mitte (about 44% migrant population), Neukölln (about 39%) and Friedrichshain-Kreuzberg (about 37%) pale in comparison to e.g. Frankfurt-Innenstadt (60%) or Mannheim-Innenstadt (55%).
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Old December 9th, 2010, 11:42 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hadrett32 View Post
... Berlin... are Germany's most ethnically diverse cities
Definitely untrue. The percentage of migrants or foreigners in Munich, Stuttgart, Dusseldorf and Cologne is much higher than in Berlin. Same to middle sized booming cities like Regensburg, Ingolstadt, Freiburg or many many more in Baden Württemberg or Bavaria.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 01:21 PM   #40
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Quote:
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Definitely untrue. The percentage of migrants or foreigners in Munich, Stuttgart, Dusseldorf and Cologne is much higher than in Berlin. Same to middle sized booming cities like Regensburg, Ingolstadt, Freiburg or many many more in Baden Württemberg or Bavaria.
Yeah, but Berlin is more ethnically diverse than these cities, they only have turks and european immigrants, whereas berlin has nearly everything. And its a fact that Berlin has the largest concentration of Black people in Germany along with Hamburg. Additionally, Berlin's Arab Community is MUCH larger than Munich's or Frankfurt's community. Never been to Northern Neukölln, heh? I don't want to create a city vs. city thread here (im not from berlin) , but the presence of non-white immigrants in Berlin is higher than in nearly all other German cities (exception Frankfrut and Hamburg)

Last edited by hadrett32; December 9th, 2010 at 01:29 PM.
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