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Old February 21st, 2012, 11:36 AM   #101
KiwiRob
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they aren't making it all look like 18th century Paris, it's just a small district within a much larger development, if you actually looked properly at all the pictures instead of referring to just one or two of the pictures, you would notice there is a massive range of styles of architecture within this project.
Have you seen the model of White City? I've seen it a few times, the small section which looks like Paris is very large part of the project, what I don't see is anything which you could look at and say up this architecture comes from Azerbaijan, it's all copies.
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Old February 21st, 2012, 01:18 PM   #102
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Baku's historic architecture is a lot more middle eastern than European, which makes complete geographical sense. Now they're ignoring it and building fake European architecture instead. How do you not see this?
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I completely agree, the blatant attempt at looking European is one of the first things I noticed. It looks great, but at the same time they're completely pushing aside they're own culture to worship another.
First of all, Old Baku looks nothing like the old architecture of the Arabian Peninsula, Mesopotamia, Levant, or North Africa.

Secondly, the Caucasus is not part of the Middle East. And while we're on the subject of the Middle East, what are its boundaries exactly? And who gets to define it? It was never our concept, to begin with. The Middle Eastern classification is extremely flawed, to the extent that the term "Middle East" only gets used for geographic purposes these days. This means that everything between art, culture and people is completely negated and omitted from comparison, when using the term "Middle East", since there are so many polarities here in the first place.

And besides... Azerbaijanis have never, ever, in their entire history, identified themselves as Middle Eastern people. They have identified with their linguistic nation (Turkic) several times, especially in recent years, which made them feel a certain affinity toward the Turks of Anatolia and other parts of "Western" (i.e. European-esque) Turkestan. They have identified with their genetic relatives, which made them feel a certain affinity to Caucasian peoples such as Armenians, Georgians, Chechens, etc, although that didn't stop them from clashing at times, unfortunately. They have even identified with the Persians (who used to be their linguistic relatives at one time), for a Greater Iran, many times in their history. But they have never, ever, in their entire history, considered themselves Middle Eastern.

There's little-to-no synonymy between Azerbaijanis and Arabs. And quite frankly, 90% of the Western World's geopolitical definition of the Middle East happens to be Arab. The other 10% is Iranian/Persian. And if you ask any Iranian/Persian if s/he likes to be classified along with the Arabs, the answer would be no, for linguistic reasons, cultural and a whole array of things. So although a few Western European historians, a century or two ago, threw all the "eastern" nationalities together into one bland and generic group and called it "The Middle East", in order to avoid confusion among themselves, the fact remains that the locals around here would never establish that form of classification.

Azerbaijan isn't throwing its culture for another; not even one bit. Culturally and historically, it was always a blend of mainland European, Caucasian, Anatolian/Byzantine (which is practically European) and northern Iranian/Persian. It's a secular country, and was the first "eastern" country to do so, and it's been culturally liberal for hundreds of years. Western Turkic cultures were the first to come in contact with, and embrace, European ideas of secularism and liberalism. The language is written in the Latin script. The language itself is Eurasian, not Semitic. So again, what exactly do Azerbaijanis have in common with the bulk of Middle Easterners, apart from mosques and fancy shmancy Islamic arches in front of the old mosques, which they took from them? And the last thing you ought to do is insult a whole nation by saying something as ridiculous as them trying to "worship" another culture. The only thing Azerbaijanis worship are their own beliefs, dignity and perseverance.
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Old February 21st, 2012, 03:26 PM   #103
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Kutsuit, don't pay attention to that hater KiwiRob. He is trolling in Azeri-related topcis already for a long time.
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Old February 21st, 2012, 10:57 PM   #104
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Galandar if you pulled you head out of your arse you'd have noticed Kutsuit wasn't replying to my post.
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Old February 22nd, 2012, 01:15 AM   #105
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BWC was once more mentioned in another Baku 2020 video

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Old February 22nd, 2012, 01:19 AM   #106
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Galandar if you pulled you head out of your arse you'd have noticed Kutsuit wasn't replying to my post.
Even if I referred to you by mistake for which I apologize that does not mean you are innocent now. Not at all...
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Old February 22nd, 2012, 09:38 PM   #107
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Have you seen the model of White City? I've seen it a few times, the small section which looks like Paris is very large part of the project, what I don't see is anything which you could look at and say up this architecture comes from Azerbaijan, it's all copies.
KiwiRob I don't understand what's your problem? Yes it looks like Paris/ or as you said it is fake copy of Paris and so what? Are you damn jealous? As for me whole world is copy paste. Am i bitching about that? NO! so then what's your problem? It appears that you are trying to prove something, and since you are dumb-ass nobody gets you.
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Old February 23rd, 2012, 09:55 AM   #108
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I'm not the only person how doesn't get it, read back through the thread there are plenty of others who also don't get it.

I'm sure a lot of these new development swill end up as massive white elephants and sit there unused.
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Old February 23rd, 2012, 10:06 AM   #109
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amazing baku , for me is more european
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Old February 25th, 2012, 10:02 PM   #110
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But why nick French style when there is a wealth of Middle Eastern styles which are far more appropriate for the region and culturally more significant.
I personally, prefer to have in the down town of Baku French districts rather than modern skyscrapers. Baku has its own design, style (mix of West and East). Remember, Baku had the World's first oil boom. You can see it in the buildings of Baku from the end 19 beginning of 20th century. It is gorgeous, luxury, truly European. Because words leading European designers of 19-20 century builded them with unique Azeri style.

Old town of Baku, which was build around 11-18 century, doesn't look like Middle Eastern either.

Baku has never belonged to the Middle East. It is a Caucasian country, that has mixture of Azeri, Turkish, Russian, European culture.

It is the first secular Muslim Country in the history. The Azeri women are the first in the Muslim countries that got right to vote (1918). Azerbaijan had the first opera in the Muslim World. The first opera composer in the Muslim World. The first circus in the Muslim world and so on.
This small country is unique with strong culture and identity.
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Old February 26th, 2012, 12:51 AM   #111
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The old architecture of Baku you guys are talking about, are probably refering to the Shirvanshah era architecture, which was built by Arabs and not Azeri Turks.

Islamic arhitecture of Azeri Turks are different, it's the Seljuq one. Very different to that of Baku.

Why you can't find any in Baku is because Baku was not an important city for a long time, and when it was, there was no Azeri Turks in it. It became Azeri land practically after Safavid conquest, and it always remained out of Turkic influence before that.

But you can find examples of Seljuq (which is our own) architecture elsewhere in Azerbaijan (Nakhchivan) and specially in Southern Azerbaijan (Iran). Safavids who originated from Azerbaijan had also based their architecture on Seljuq one.

Last edited by Bozqurd; February 26th, 2012 at 12:57 AM.
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Old February 26th, 2012, 12:57 AM   #112
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Bozqurd, sorry but this is bullshit what you wrote in your last post
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Old February 26th, 2012, 12:58 AM   #113
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Bozqurd, stop talking shit!!!
And why I m talking "schit"?

Shirvanshahis were not Azeri Turks, and Baku itself was populated by only 8 thousand people before oil boom anyway.

It was never any important city in Azerbaijan, or for Azeri Turks.
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Old February 26th, 2012, 01:05 AM   #114
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And why I m talking "schit"?

Shirvanshahis were not Azeri Turks, and Baku itself was populated by only 8 thousand people before oil boom anyway.

It was never any important city in Azerbaijan, or for Azeri Turks.
First, this topic is not about history of Azerbaijan. It is about BWC
Second, if you talk about history then Shirvanshakhs were the Azeri state ruling in the eastern part of the modern Republic of Azerbaijan with capitals first in Shemakha and then in Baku.
Third, with population of 8 thousands, less or more, Baku became one of the main cities of Azerbaijan in the Middle Ages.

p.s. Yes we are of Turcic roots and we are proud of that and even so please call us how we call ourselves officially - Azerbaijanis. Thanks!
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Old February 26th, 2012, 01:07 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Bozqurd View Post
The old architecture of Baku you guys are talking about, are probably refering to the Shirvanshah era architecture, which was built by Arabs and not Azeri Turks.

Islamic arhitecture of Azeri Turks are different, it's the Seljuq one. Very different to that of Baku.

Why you can't find any in Baku is because Baku was not an important city for a long time, and when it was, there was no Azeri Turks in it. It became Azeri land practically after Safavid conquest, and it always remained out of Turkic influence before that.

But you can find examples of Seljuq (which is our own) architecture elsewhere in Azerbaijan (Nakhchivan) and specially in Southern Azerbaijan (Iran). Safavids who originated from Azerbaijan had also based their architecture on Seljuq one.
If Alexander Great, Roman Empire, Persians, Arabs, Mongols, Russians invented your country it doesn't mean that it belonged to them. They came and went away.
Baku was a capital of Shirvanshakh's. And you call it not important city?!
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Old February 26th, 2012, 03:01 AM   #116
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p.s. Yes we are of Turcic roots and we are proud of that and even so please call us how we call ourselves officially - Azerbaijanis. Thanks!
Why should we call ourselves as Azerbaijanis when in fact we are Azerbaijani Turks? "Azerbaijanis" are not a ethnic term, but TUrks of Azerbaijan are, I.E Azerbaijani Turks.

Don't forget that before 1936 our ethnicity name were simple known as Turk, it was in 1936 that this was changed to "Azerbaijani".
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Old February 26th, 2012, 03:07 AM   #117
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Why should we call ourselves as Azerbaijanis when in fact we are Azerbaijani Turks? "Azerbaijanis" are not a ethnic term, but TUrks of Azerbaijan are, I.E Azerbaijani Turks.

Don't forget that before 1936 our ethnicity name were simple known as Turk, it was in 1936 that this was changed to "Azerbaijani".
Unlike Turkish in all the other languages including English the term Turk or Turkish is different from the term Turcic referring to all the people having Turcic roots from Balkans to Central Asia. In this regard Turks mean people of Turcic origin in Turkey. Since we are not and we have never been a part of Turkey we can not call ourselves Turks, ok?

You like it or not, our ethnicity is an established one. There is no need to refer to us by different name than our official one. We are Turcic by origin yet Azerbaijanis by nationality, understand?
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Last edited by Galandar; February 26th, 2012 at 03:13 AM.
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Old February 26th, 2012, 03:13 AM   #118
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We can still change it like how it was done in 1936. In fact we should because it was artifically changed by Soviet leadership.
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Old February 26th, 2012, 03:19 AM   #119
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We can still change it like how it was done in 1936. In fact we should because it was artifically changed by Soviet leadership.
Then how Azerbaijan Democratic Republic was called so in 1918 and why the country could be Azerbaijan and its people could not be called so?

Our name could be easily changed in case we would not feel so. I feel 100% Azerbaijani and no one can change my opinion on that. Full point

I KINDLY ASK MODERATORS TO CLEAN UP THIS THREAD FROM ALL THIS UNNECESSARY OFFTOP
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Old February 26th, 2012, 03:26 AM   #120
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We can still change it like how it was done in 1936. In fact we should because it was artifically changed by Soviet leadership.
Absolutely, disagree. Yes, we were calling ourselves as Turks, when Turkish people called themselves Ottomans. However, we cant change our nationality as a Turk now. What about others in Azerbaijan then? Will they change their nationality into Talysh, Lezgin, Jews, Avar, Udin, Armenians from Karabakh and so on? Why can we be just proud of being as an Azerbaijani and from Azerbaijan. Why should we divide Azerbaijan into small ethnic groups later clans? We should have strong national identity with single name of our nation as Azerbaijanis!
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