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Old July 14th, 2010, 08:06 PM   #21
El Tiburon
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Originally Posted by asotUA View Post
Those LED's on Audi's rule! The only thing that is going to hurt is when one of those bulbs goes out...well....its going to be very expensive to replace with a new one.
Maybe Audi will charge a lot of money to replace, but the LED's themselves are dirt cheap.

Quote:
But then again Euro cars are the best and the best never comes cheap.
Euro cars have reputation for perfomance, but, mechanically (specially in electric and air conditioning systems), they are very unreliable and break too often.

I have owned American, European and Japanese cars. In my experience, Japanese cars are the very best. Euro cars (even the expensive ones) spend too much time at the dealership on warranty repairs, while Japanese cars mostly go for routine oil changes and tire rotations.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 08:35 PM   #22
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In some two-lane Florida roads (like the Overseas Highway that links the mainland to Key West through the Florida Keys) there are signs that read "LIGHTS ON FOR SAFETY". I don't remember, however, if the signs are white with black letters (regulatory and enforceable) or green with white letters (highway information).
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Old July 14th, 2010, 08:42 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by El Tiburon View Post
The result was that I had to replace the bulbs every few months. LED loghts, like Audi's look very kitschy and cheap, but they do meke the car visible with low consumption of electricity and long life.
Hmm like Chris said, there must have been a problem with your car, because my parents' car has been in our possession for 7 years and was driven by us for about 65,000 km (about 40,000 miles), and the bulbs never had to be replaced (the actual car is older and has about 185,000 km on it, but I don't know what was replaced on it by the previous owner). Needless to say, because we live in Canada, the car is equipped with DRL's.

DRL's are especially useful during unfavourable weather conditions, but as was mentioned by a few other posts here, they increase safety in all conditions.

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Originally Posted by El Tiburon View Post
Euro cars have reputation for perfomance, but, mechanically (specially in electric and air conditioning systems), they are very unreliable and break too often.

I have owned American, European and Japanese cars. In my experience, Japanese cars are the very best. Euro cars (even the expensive ones) spend too much time at the dealership on warranty repairs, while Japanese cars mostly go for routine oil changes and tire rotations.
I don't want to bring this thread off-topic, but I must agree with you on this one. European cars used to be known for reliability, but it's no longer the case - several European brands available in NA are ranked very poorly on Consumer Reports. Mercedes is especially bad, while BMW 3-series is actually quite reliable. But in general (though there are exceptions) I agree, if one wants reliability, I think the Japanese are still the leaders in this regard. Electrical failures are usually quoted as the biggest problem with European cars - complicated and very expensive to fix.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 08:48 PM   #24
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By the way, on the topic of LED's and the like, my car is actually equipped with HID lights, which supposedly last an extremely long time (they better do, because AFAIK they are also very expensive to replace). However, the DRL functionality is actually implemented via the high beams, which utilize regular lamps.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 08:57 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I always have my lights on and never had to replace one in the last 45,000 kilometers.
Although I don't like the concept of automatic daytime running lights, drive with my headlights on all the time. If I want to turn my headlights off I want that option too.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 09:09 PM   #26
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Hmm like Chris said, there must have been a problem with your car
The car was a 2003 Volvo S60. The DRL's were the cars same headlights that were rigged by the manufacturer to be always on (unless you told the dealer before delivery to deactivate them so that you could turn them on and off at will). Incredibly enough, the car's headlight covers were made of glass, something that you don't see nowadays even in more expensive cars which use cheap plastic covers that you have to polish after several thousand miles because they get opaque with road dust.

I don't like mandatory DRL's. I prefer automatic headlights that sense darkness and turn on by themselves but which have an OFF and ON position so that I can turn them on and off at will.

I understand that Europe and Canada have nanny-state mindsets where the government is supposed to keep you "safe" and tell you what's best for you and that mindset is slowly creeping into the United States, but I think that each car owner should be able to decide with a switch like the one in some Japanese cars sold in the U.S. that have auto headlights with switchable DRL's and on/off positions. I prefer lights on in bad weather and two-lane highways without medians, but the DRL's do cause glare specially when too many cars are on the road.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 09:41 PM   #27
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If I want to turn my headlights off I want that option too.
My uncle's Prius has no headlight switch, only a high-beam switch. They're blue-white HID lights too.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 09:43 PM   #28
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I don't like mandatory DRL's. I prefer automatic headlights that sense darkness and turn on by themselves but which have an OFF and ON position so that I can turn them on and off at will.
How about an additional "AUTO" switch that, at minimum, turns them on at night, but could also turn on when you turn on your wipers, drive through a tunnel, or when the GPS indicates that you're entering a country requiring DRL such as Canada.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 09:53 PM   #29
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Why would you turn on your lights if you use the wipers? It's not always pouring rain when you use your wipers...
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Old July 14th, 2010, 09:57 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Tiburon View Post
Maybe Audi will charge a lot of money to replace, but the LED's themselves are dirt cheap.
that's exactly what I meant.

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Euro cars have reputation for perfomance, but, mechanically (specially in electric and air conditioning systems), they are very unreliable and break too often.
Yes in some ways I have to agree. Especially when it comes to electrical problems in Audi's! Don't know about the new ones but the older ones seem to have quite a lot of those. Of course if you take a good care of them and don't abuse them you have a chance to make it last longer but then 18 year old car deserves to have something break down weather its a huge a little problem just like elderly people who loose vision and get sick and so on...

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I have owned American, European and Japanese cars. In my experience, Japanese cars are the very best. Euro cars (even the expensive ones) spend too much time at the dealership on warranty repairs, while Japanese cars mostly go for routine oil changes and tire rotations.
I'm sorry but I cannot agree here. I never liked Japanese and neither the American. You see Japanese everywhere, its not even funny anymore but that's because they are so cheap and everybody buys them although I never felt good driving on. In fact I just don't feel home when driving one like I feel when I drive my Audi. Honda's for example have transmission problems, they lag in Design to European cars and performance as you mentioned. They are also number 1 out there to get stollen(well atleast here in US) which also a main reason why I don't want to buy one as my second car because the next day it will be gone. I drove a 2002 Honda Accord and let me tell you, the steering wheels is not the best to turn because it doesn't have power steering like my 1993 Audi already had. The only from Japs I like is Suburu(especially WRX Impreza) They are just somewhat different from the whole Jap. car scene. And i don't mean just the AWD system but for the looks too. Sam I can say about Mitsubishi EVO. But I mainly was always a european cars fan. Bimmers, Audi's, VW's.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 10:37 PM   #31
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Why would you turn on your lights if you use the wipers?
Because the law in Virginia says you have to. Plenty reason for me.
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Old July 15th, 2010, 12:36 AM   #32
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Because the law in Virginia says you have to. Plenty reason for me.
In fact, many if not most US states do.
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Old July 15th, 2010, 01:04 AM   #33
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Headlights on is mandatory in Sweden, and all cars have them on by default. This is the reason why many Saab or Volvo cars have this behaviour where it's not required. I like this, and it's easier to spot oncoming cars from a distance.
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Old July 15th, 2010, 01:05 AM   #34
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Yes in some ways I have to agree. Especially when it comes to electrical problems in Audi's! Don't know about the new ones but the older ones seem to have quite a lot of those. Of course if you take a good care of them and don't abuse them you have a chance to make it last longer but then 18 year old car deserves to have something break down weather its a huge a little problem just like elderly people who loose vision and get sick and so on...
I'm not referring to older cars. I'm referring to new cars that are still under warranty but have those kinds of electrical problems.

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I drove a 2002 Honda Accord and let me tell you, the steering wheels is not the best to turn because it doesn't have power steering like my 1993 Audi already had.
That's because it didn't have that option. Some purists don't like power steering because they think it doesn't feed back enough road feel to the driver's hands.

Still, Japanese cars are such best sellers because they give you a lot of good, solid, reliable car for your money and they have pretty decent performance too. European cars give you performance but at the price of reliability, plus, compared to Japanese cars, European cars (even the expensive models) are quite uncomfortable, more so when they are sports cars. Japanese cars are better thought-out and engineered with good controls and ergonomics. Keep the Audis and Bimmers and give me the Lexuses and Infinitis.
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Old July 15th, 2010, 01:35 AM   #35
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Because the law in Virginia says you have to. Plenty reason for me.
Does Virginia law say that if you turn on the wipers you have to turn on the lights? Or is that like a rule of thumb for people to know that if it's raining hard enough to turn on the wipers it must be dark enough to turn on the lights?

In Florida, the law doesn't say anything about wipers. You may use the wipers as an indicator that if there is rain, you must turn the lights on. This is Florida's law:

316.217 When lighted lamps are required.--

(1) Every vehicle operated upon a highway within this state shall display lighted lamps and illuminating devices as herein respectively required for different classes of vehicles, subject to exceptions with respect to parked vehicles, under the following conditions;

(a) At any time from sunset to sunrise including the twilight hours. Twilight hours shall mean the time between sunset and full night or between full night and sunrise.

(b) During any rain, smoke, or fog.


(c) Stop lights, turn signals, and other signaling devices shall be lighted as prescribed for use of such devices.

Last edited by El Tiburon; July 15th, 2010 at 04:39 AM.
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Old July 15th, 2010, 02:19 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by El Tiburon View Post
European cars give you performance but at the price of reliability, plus, compared to Japanese cars, European cars (even the expensive models) are quite uncomfortable, more so when they are sports cars.
I have no idea what kind of car market you have over the pond, but I can assure you that the most European cars are not sports cars

And let's leave Audis, Infinitis, Lexuses and Beamers alone, let's focus on cars for an average man. Here you have the TÜV reliability report for 4 and 5 years old cars (although mind that it's European market only. I presume it looks different in USA, Japan or South America). Let's filter out all the luxury and sports cars and see if Japanese cars really are THAT much more reliable:

1. VW Golf Plus
2. Toyota Corolla Verso
3. BMW 1 series
4. Mazda 3
5. Renault Modus
7. Honda Jazz
7. Subaru Forester
10. Opel Tigra
11. Toyota RAV4
13. Saab 9-3
12. Mazda 2
15 Toyota Avensis
16. Ford Fusion
16. Mitsubishi Colt
18. VW Golf
19. Seat Altea/Toledo
19. Ford Focus C-Max

So, in first 20 cars you have 9 European and 7 Japanese cars. Not bad at all. (I consider both Fords European because they were designed by Germans in Ford Europe situated in Cologne and are made in Cologne and Saarland)
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Old July 15th, 2010, 04:38 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by nerdly_dood View Post
How about an additional "AUTO" switch that, at minimum, turns them on at night, but could also turn on when you turn on your wipers, drive through a tunnel, or when the GPS indicates that you're entering a country requiring DRL such as Canada.
I had a Nissan Altima with an AUTO switch that turned the headlights on at night, in a garage, under an overpass, or anywhere it was dark. I guess it wouldn't be hard to have a GPS or wiper switch to do the same thing as you suggest.
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Old July 15th, 2010, 05:00 AM   #38
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I just drive with my headlights on all the time.
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Old July 15th, 2010, 05:14 AM   #39
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Technically DRL's aren't simply headlights that are always on. They operate at a reduced intensity (though the actual method of implementation can be one of many). In theory, there are regulations in place that specify the maximum luminance, but due to cost-cutting issues the Canadian standards allow much higher intensities than the ones permitted in Scandinavian countries (originally Canada wanted to follow more or less the same standards). When driving at night, in tunnels, or any other condition that warrants it, you still have to turn on your headlights.

Nevertheless, I see nothing wrong with having reduced-intensity DRL's designed specifically for that purpose without the possibility of being disabled, and I don't see what it has to do with Canada or any other nation having a "nanny-state" mentality. Think of it simply as an indicator light on an appliance, that signifies that it is currently ON. And the "bulb burning out" argument doesn't make any sense. Almost everyone around me here in Canada has cars equipped with DRL's and I am yet to encounter someone complaining of having to replace bulbs every few months.
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Last edited by TheCat; July 15th, 2010 at 05:19 AM.
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Old July 15th, 2010, 06:37 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by El Tiburon View Post
I understand that there could be some supposed benefit in DRL's in a place with bad weather and low visibility, but not in places with clear conditions. I had a Volvo that was equipped with permanently-on lights and I didn't know that I could have opted to have them turned off at delivery. The result was that I had to replace the bulbs every few months. LED loghts, like Audi's look very kitschy and cheap, but they do meke the car visible with low consumption of electricity and long life.
That is a Volvo issue, I remember looking at an S40 and it was a typical problem I found with Volvo's from that time.

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Originally Posted by El Tiburon View Post
Maybe Audi will charge a lot of money to replace, but the LED's themselves are dirt cheap.



Euro cars have reputation for perfomance, but, mechanically (specially in electric and air conditioning systems), they are very unreliable and break too often.

I have owned American, European and Japanese cars. In my experience, Japanese cars are the very best. Euro cars (even the expensive ones) spend too much time at the dealership on warranty repairs, while Japanese cars mostly go for routine oil changes and tire rotations.
Well I agree but in North America it's a bit different than in Europe. It doesn't make sense to own a European car here unless you happen to be loaded and know you will have a new car in a year or two. VW's here are known for bad auto transmissions and electric problems, they are poor quality and use inferior parts from being built in Mexico. BMW is crap as well I have seen BMW's from only 4-8 years ago with interior materials falling apart, transmission problems, electric problems, etc. Mercedes Benz is hit or miss but overall good quality especially in higher up models. Audi is a great manufacturer but suffers from some VW issues. From my experience certain American cars are actually better to own in America, they are cheap to maintain, easier to work on than Japanese cars, and I've a lotmet people who have also mostly gone in for routine work. The newer American cars are even better quality and have better design and quality than many Japanese cars in our market and they are cheaper as well, win win.


I should add that DRL's are very simple to remove, in most cases you just remove a fuse and they won't come on, you can even go as far as to remove the module.
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