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Old May 19th, 2007, 09:21 AM   #221
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What defines heavy rail typically is the rolling stock, and probably 99% of the time, total grade separation.
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Old May 19th, 2007, 09:34 PM   #222
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In my opinion the BART is not a metro system of San Fransisco but a regional railway. It is not really used by SF-people to move around in the city. I think it's more like the RER in Paris or the German S-Bahn.
I have used the Bart during a holiday in SF and I think it's a great system. I just don't see it as a metropolitan railway. It's connecting cities and suburbs. This makes it commuter rail.
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Old May 20th, 2007, 03:06 AM   #223
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These last few post's have demonstrated that that there are locally strong differentiators between, "Commuter rail systems", "Metro systems" and "Light Rail Transit systems".

When I studied an urban area, I evaluate all these categories and also, "heritage systems" and bus transit systems. Unfortunatey the various wikipedia entries are not consistent at identifying all the transit types in the urban areas in the US and it is almost ten years since trains magasine did an update on metroplitan transit systems. Wikipedia may only be five years out of date.

We need a new review of urban transit systems in the US
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Old May 20th, 2007, 09:26 AM   #224
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Quote:
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In my opinion the BART is not a metro system of San Fransisco but a regional railway. It is not really used by SF-people to move around in the city. I think it's more like the RER in Paris or the German S-Bahn.
I have used the Bart during a holiday in SF and I think it's a great system. I just don't see it as a metropolitan railway. It's connecting cities and suburbs. This makes it commuter rail.
SF itself is such as small city but The Bay Area is one big metro area and it not just includes SF but Oakland, Berkeley, etc. The BART more functions as a metro than commuter rail. But it serves both SF and it's neighbouring cities.

In fact the BART is considered by many as the most modern metro system in THE US.

The Caltrain on the other hand is considered commuter/suburban railway.
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Old May 20th, 2007, 11:47 AM   #225
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SF itself is such as small city but The Bay Area is one big metro area and it not just includes SF but Oakland, Berkeley, etc. The BART more functions as a metro than commuter rail. But it serves both SF and it's neighbouring cities.

In fact the BART is considered by many as the most modern metro system in THE US.

The Caltrain on the other hand is considered commuter/suburban railway.
I have taken both Caltrain and Bart and I have also cycled around in San Francisco, Oakland, Berkeley and Sausolito.
The fact that the BART is very modern doesn't proof it's a metro system. It only proofs it's a very modern suburbian commuter-rail. The Caltrain on the other hand is a very oldfashioned trainsystem, witch I liked very much, in the same way I like Historical (steam) railroads.
BART was build only to serve the population in a very wide region around the Bay Area. Only 12 km from the total of 152 is in SF-city. It is not a SF-metropolitan railroad. Sorry, dude!
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Old May 22nd, 2007, 06:00 AM   #226
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Quote:
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I have taken both Caltrain and Bart and I have also cycled around in San Francisco, Oakland, Berkeley and Sausolito.
The fact that the BART is very modern doesn't proof it's a metro system. It only proofs it's a very modern suburbian commuter-rail. The Caltrain on the other hand is a very oldfashioned trainsystem, witch I liked very much, in the same way I like Historical (steam) railroads.
BART was build only to serve the population in a very wide region around the Bay Area. Only 12 km from the total of 152 is in SF-city. It is not a SF-metropolitan railroad. Sorry, dude!
It is debatable if the BART would be classified as commuter or metro. But to many San Franciscans, they look at it as metro.
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Old May 22nd, 2007, 06:20 AM   #227
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The trains look outdated and I feel bad for anyone who has to ride those....
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Old May 22nd, 2007, 06:58 AM   #228
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The trains look outdated and I feel bad for anyone who has to ride those....
Which trains are you talking about? There are several here.
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Old May 23rd, 2007, 07:04 AM   #229
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From what the pictures show: All of them. I think the U.S. has nicer looking light rail..like the one in Sacramento.
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Old May 23rd, 2007, 01:54 PM   #230
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From what the pictures show: All of them. I think the U.S. has nicer looking light rail..like the one in Sacramento.
True with the lightrail part. The only solution here is to refurbish the older trains especially the ones in Philadelphia or Boston
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Old May 24th, 2007, 03:28 AM   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hix View Post
I have taken both Caltrain and Bart and I have also cycled around in San Francisco, Oakland, Berkeley and Sausolito.
The fact that the BART is very modern doesn't proof it's a metro system. It only proofs it's a very modern suburbian commuter-rail. The Caltrain on the other hand is a very oldfashioned trainsystem, witch I liked very much, in the same way I like Historical (steam) railroads.
BART was build only to serve the population in a very wide region around the Bay Area. Only 12 km from the total of 152 is in SF-city. It is not a SF-metropolitan railroad. Sorry, dude!
Sorry dude, BART serves the Bay Area Metropolitan area. It is considered a Metro by the agency that operates it and by the people that use it. You can't argue with those facts, especially someone who doesn't even live there.

CalTrain and the ACE (Altamont Commuter Express) are commuter rail. Yes they are primitive by European standards, but they fit the American model of commuter railways, which run on standard railroad tracks and are governed by federal railroad regulations.

You fail to understand that in the USA, or even in North America, there is no such thing as a regional rail system in the mold of Paris' RER or a German S-Bahn. Only light rail, heavy rail and commuter rail.
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Old May 24th, 2007, 01:18 PM   #232
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Quote:
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From what the pictures show: All of them. I think the U.S. has nicer looking light rail..like the one in Sacramento.
Then there are the ones in San Jose:

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Old May 24th, 2007, 06:09 PM   #233
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You can't argue with those facts, especially someone who doesn't even live there.
That's riduculous!Only people who live in SF can have an opinion about BART?
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Old May 25th, 2007, 07:18 AM   #234
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That's riduculous!Only people who live in SF can have an opinion about BART?
Not just SF but how about those living across the bay like in Oakland or Berkeley?
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Old May 25th, 2007, 09:44 AM   #235
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The Bay Area is really lucky to have BART, which was started in the late 1960s & completed in the early ‘70s, for a total of just about $2 billion. Some of the most recent BART extensions, specifically the one to SFO, the airport, opened a few years ago, have cost nearly as much as the whole original system.

And LA & Seattle, by contrast, waited decades to approve regional metros & now have to pay many, many times the price of BART for much more limited rail systems, even when adjusted for current dollars.

One of the biggest drawbacks of BART has been the service reliability. The system has been extended without adding sufficient numbers of additional cars. Also the fact that most of the lines converge through Oakland & the Transbay tube creates delays. If there’s a disruption on one line, the entire system often becomes become backed up.

And while the two areas are roughly similar in population, no doubt BART's certainly a notch or two below Hong Kong's more recent & extensive mass transit railway!
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Old May 27th, 2007, 06:47 AM   #236
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the bart is ok, my big issue is how few doors there are on the trains. i mean i understand they wanted these streamlined cool trains, but seriously....

DOORS ARE KINDA NEEDED ON A METRO.

ok my rant is over. And miami needs a serious expansion into hileah and some of the poorer areas (stereotyping i know) cuz right now, the metrorail is empty.
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Old May 27th, 2007, 06:58 AM   #237
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I like the bart train and the system, it gets me where I need to go and its price extremely affordably. The trains itself isn't too bad either, the only thing I could say I dislike about the bart art the morning delays that happens weekly.
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Old May 31st, 2007, 09:13 PM   #238
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Those are some fugly trains
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Old June 1st, 2007, 12:12 AM   #239
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Quote:
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the bart is ok, my big issue is how few doors there are on the trains. i mean i understand they wanted these streamlined cool trains, but seriously....

DOORS ARE KINDA NEEDED ON A METRO.
Good point. BART was designed over 40 years ago. It was enginneered as a suburban commuter-rail style heavy rail system, with stations widely spaced, and commuter rail type seats. They assumed that all the passengers would be seated. And so just 2 pairs of doors on each car. Of course they were wrong. In reality, during rush hours, their are many standees.
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Old June 1st, 2007, 12:46 AM   #240
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I seem to remember that funding has been approved for new trains on BART. Is this true?
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