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Old September 5th, 2007, 09:58 AM   #261
icracked
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Honolulu is getting a Subway/Heavy Rail system soon (8-10 years from now)! So far the project is predicting to cost upwards of 3 billion+ dollars. Right now they are raising state tax to pay for the project

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...507260339.htmlAn old article about the increase of sales tax to help pay for the project.
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Old September 5th, 2007, 08:18 PM   #262
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Per capita I think almost all cities would have had insanly larger mass transit usage in 1940 or 1950 than now.

Sure Atlanta and places like Denver and Dallas are building systems, but how many people did they have in 1940? A small %.....

Places that were huge in 1940 or 1950 have seen many of their systems dismantled and are now forgotten. Look at the streetcar systems...
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Old September 5th, 2007, 08:24 PM   #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicagoago View Post
Look at the streetcar systems...
LA and Chicago anyone?

Transit usage peaked in the mid '40s I believe and has been downhill from then. Only recently has it gained.
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Old September 5th, 2007, 09:21 PM   #264
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It's going down the right direction, but there is still a long way to go.

It's even more pathetic when looking at all the abandoned rail lines and whatnot. Except for possibly some of the fastest growing Sunbelt cities, the infrastructure is there and doesn't even need to be built.
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Old September 5th, 2007, 10:28 PM   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northsider1983 View Post
We'll see, I am not convinced though. Just because they build it doesn't mean people will use it. Denver and Dallas come to mind with success stories of their light rail projects. 60,400 and 58,200 weekday riders respectively for each. How many people does the Dallas region have? 1.5 million? That means under 4% of weekday work trips are made by their light rail. This is hardly the direction Europe is taking, or Asian cities. Sure light rail is coming back, but how successful can they be when cities have already sprawled out beyond the means of effective transit?
LMAO

people who are not from dallas have no idea. lol, 1.5 mil???

Anyways, dallas has a regional pop of nearly 6.2 mil. 200,000 people a day utilize DART (dallas area rapid transit) and TRE (trinitiy railway express) across a 700 sq mi service area.
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Old September 5th, 2007, 10:33 PM   #266
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4 cities is not BIG TIME. It's getting more importance no doubt, but the change will take time.
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Old September 5th, 2007, 10:38 PM   #267
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So only bus and metro is public transport there?
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Old September 5th, 2007, 10:45 PM   #268
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The extent of US suburban sprawl will significantly limit the possibilities of more public transport nationwide. It's simply not feasible in most places, no matter how much is initially invested.
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Old September 5th, 2007, 10:49 PM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Realek View Post
The extent of US suburban sprawl will significantly limit the possibilities of more public transport nationwide. It's simply not feasible in most places, no matter how much is initially invested.
I meant ferries,trolleys,trams,funiculars,cable-cars.
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Old September 5th, 2007, 11:08 PM   #270
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I have noticed it. The majority of rail transit popped up in many metro areas in the US starting in 1980's and beyond. I didn't list all of them. There is many more that opened after 1980's so we're seeing a huge trend of rail transit opened up or under construction. We will continue to see even more in the future. There is a good list of rail transit being proposed.

Here's a list of US cities have gotten it or is under construction after 1980's

Portland, OR (1986) LRT
Seattle, WA (2009) LRT
Tacoma, WA (2003) Streetcar
Salt Lake City, UT (1999) LRT
Phoenix, AZ (2008) LRT
Denver, CO (1994) LRT
St. Louis, MO (1994?) LRT
San Jose, CA (1987) LRT
Sacramento, CA(1987) LRT
Houston, TX(2004) LRT
Albuquerque, NM (2006) Commuter rail
Baltimore, MD (1992) LRT
Buffalo, NY (1984) LRT (not sure if it's heavy rail)
Camden and Trenton, NJ (2004) LRT
Dallas, TX (1996) LRT
Jacksonville, FL (1989) monorail
Jersey City, NJ (2000) LRT
Little rock, AR (2004) Streetcar
Los Angeles, CA (1992) LRT and heavy rail
Miami, FL (1984) Heavy rail
Minneapolis, MN (2004) LRT
Nashville, TN (2006) Commuter rail
Southeast Conn. (1990) commuter rail
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Old September 5th, 2007, 11:23 PM   #271
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doubtful

Me, I truly doubt this claim be true. Just a lot of lip service is what I reckon the US's talk (talk, talk, talk, talk, talk) is all about . . .
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Old September 5th, 2007, 11:48 PM   #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
I meant ferries,trolleys,trams,funiculars,cable-cars.
My comment wasn't an answer to yours, just a general observation
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Old September 5th, 2007, 11:52 PM   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Realek View Post
My comment wasn't an answer to yours, just a general observation
Sorry,then
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Old September 6th, 2007, 06:18 AM   #274
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Aside from older cities in northeast and maybe the Midwest, mass transit isn't going to work unless we make our metros denser.
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Old September 6th, 2007, 06:44 AM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newyorkrunaway1 View Post
LMAO

people who are not from dallas have no idea. lol, 1.5 mil???

Anyways, dallas has a regional pop of nearly 6.2 mil. 200,000 people a day utilize DART (dallas area rapid transit) and TRE (trinitiy railway express) across a 700 sq mi service area.
I was speaking strictly on Dallas' LRT, which has ~58,000 daily ridership.
Source

Since you brought up the TRE, it has ~8,800 daily riders. A grand total of 66,800 daily riders. See source above (for 2007).

The Dallas bus system however has 140,000 daily riders.

So there you have it...oh and excuse the hell out of me, I was referring to Dallas proper: population 1,232,940 (metro 6,003,967). So let me re-calculate: 66,800/6,003,967=1.1% for rail...207,000/6,003,967=3.4% for all transit. Compare this to Europe, even the east coast. So now it's my turn to "LMAO"

Quote:
Aside from older cities in northeast and maybe the Midwest, mass transit isn't going to work unless we make our metros denser.
Thats what I was saying, we need to re-think our land use developments, because transit is worthless if we continue to sprawl and be auto-centric.

Last edited by Northsider; September 9th, 2007 at 07:53 AM.
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Old September 6th, 2007, 08:39 AM   #276
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The Dallas bus system however has 140,000 daily riders.

heh, king county metro transit gets 340,000 daily riders (bus system)
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Old September 6th, 2007, 10:30 AM   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northsider1983 View Post
With the way most cities are arranged, and with suburban sprawl transit is almost useless unless a better land use design is used. No longer does transit take you to a central location, where transit is most effective. Now that there are multiple suburban centers of business, how do you plan transit?
This is really a catch-22. What's happening in many cases is TOD or transit oriented development. First you build the rail-line and plot in the stations. You zone for high-density development and create a transit hub for feeder bus lines. It takes time to build up. Here's what's happening along the MAX line west of Portland which was mostly greenfield when built. This is going to be something of a downtown for the Western suburbs.



http://www.ci.hillsboro.or.us/Planni...an_Summary.pdf
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Old September 6th, 2007, 10:44 AM   #278
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.....The majority of rail transit popped up in many metro areas in the US starting in 1980's and beyond. I didn't list all of them. There is many more that opened after 1980's so we're seeing a huge trend of rail transit opened up or under construction. We will continue to see even more in the future. There is a good list of rail transit being proposed.

Here's a list of US cities have gotten it or is under construction after 1980's
....

Seattle, WA (2009) LRT
Tacoma, WA (2003) Streetcar
....

just a quick update to the list for the Seattle area:
Seattle, WA (2000) Commuter Rail
Seattle, WA (2008) Streetcar
Seattle, WA (1962) Monorail

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Old September 6th, 2007, 10:55 AM   #279
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a good website that also includes my hood is http://www.tndwest.com/

change is happening, slowly
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Old September 6th, 2007, 08:45 PM   #280
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Quote:
heh, king county metro transit gets 340,000 daily riders (bus system)
Yea, he made it seem like Dallas was on the forefront of transit because it recently had *some* success with it's LRT, but really it's lagging big time.

Quote:
What's happening in many cases is TOD or transit oriented development.
Portland is the poster child for TOD, though it doesn't always work everywhere. We have a bunch here in the suburbs. Sure, it's great to live right next to the train station and take the commuter rail to work...what about everything else? The 1/2 mile square around the transit station is dense, and urban like the city, but everything else is still suburban sprawl. I can't take the train to do grocery shopping, or visit my friend, or go to the park, or go to the doctors, or anything else. It really has failed on that sense, but it's a step closer. One little area which has good land use really does little for the region as a whole and the transit system as a whole.
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