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Old June 13th, 2008, 01:09 PM   #381
brianmoon85
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I don't know about that. Most US cities are not biker or evne pedestrian friendly. Plus, it would take the entire day to go from one place to another since everything is so far away. Why can't they construct subway lines in each mid-scale to large cities that connects to important business, historical, and residential places like other countries do??? In the US, it is so hard to get around if you don't have a car. I live in DC and it's a pain, and NO the DC metro doesn't even stand a chance to Seoul or Tokyo's subway system. You can NEVER walk to a subway system in the USA, you need a car, park at the metro parking garage and then ride the metro...which is RIDICULOUS
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Old June 13th, 2008, 10:33 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
I don't think public transport improvements can actually make it a viable option at least for the American suburbanites,
Once oil-driven inflation starts causing a sustained decline in real incomes (remember that food, electricity, medicine, and manufactured goods all depend on oil), then the middle class would start being priced out of auto-dependent suburbs. Ironically those suburbs along the railway lines (where there would be decrepit Indian-style commuter trains) stand to benefit the most.

People don't know what tough sh!t industrial civilization is facing now.

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thus once the fuel prices come back down, the gains will be easily reversed.
There could be a short-term bubble that will pop, but in the medium and long term energy prices aren't going down unless half of Asia reverts back to the 1950s.
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Old June 14th, 2008, 04:46 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by urbanfan89 View Post
Once oil-driven inflation starts causing a sustained decline in real incomes (remember that food, electricity, medicine, and manufactured goods all depend on oil), then the middle class would start being priced out of auto-dependent suburbs. Ironically those suburbs along the railway lines (where there would be decrepit Indian-style commuter trains) stand to benefit the most.

People don't know what tough sh!t industrial civilization is facing now.


There could be a short-term bubble that will pop, but in the medium and long term energy prices aren't going down unless half of Asia reverts back to the 1950s.
Where are they going to price into though? I doubt inner city prices are affordable to them if they can't pay an extra 50 bucks for fuel a week.
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Old June 14th, 2008, 07:21 AM   #384
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I don't know about that. Most US cities are not biker or evne pedestrian friendly. Plus, it would take the entire day to go from one place to another since everything is so far away. Why can't they construct subway lines in each mid-scale to large cities that connects to important business, historical, and residential places like other countries do??? In the US, it is so hard to get around if you don't have a car. I live in DC and it's a pain, and NO the DC metro doesn't even stand a chance to Seoul or Tokyo's subway system. You can NEVER walk to a subway system in the USA, you need a car, park at the metro parking garage and then ride the metro...which is RIDICULOUS
An entire day? Do you really live in DC? Its not that hard to walk to the metro.
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Old June 14th, 2008, 08:33 AM   #385
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Who's going to walk 4 miles to get to the metro station and then walk 2 miles to get to work at this day in age? I jogged 3.6 miles this morning for exercise and it took me 55 minutes and it rained half of that time. Walking ******* sucks for people in the United States. If you're in Europe you could walk one mile and pass the dry cleaners, fancy restaurant, night club, clothing store, tailor, post office and many other stores, in the United States you'll probably get fence line and trees for one mile before you hit any sense of "civilization." Where my parents live the local convenient store is about a 1 hour walk from the house which is only about a 1.5 minute drive.

Last edited by FM 2258; June 14th, 2008 at 08:42 AM.
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Old June 14th, 2008, 08:48 AM   #386
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Where are they going to price into though? I doubt inner city prices are affordable to them if they can't pay an extra 50 bucks for fuel a week.
Don't forget that it's not only fuel that goes up. The average Joe (middle class in the United States) will be forced to spend a larger and larger % of income (which will stagnate in real terms). For now they're borrowing $ and hoping the current bout of inflation goes away.

Once the credit defaults pile up, they'll have to find some way of survival. It definitely won't be auto-dependent suburbs.

I don't believe that peak oil will bring apocalypse. If we're lucky we'll have a decade or two of 1970's style stagflation until renewable energies become prevalent. If we're unlucky we'll see chaos like the Former Soviet Union in the 1990s.

Last edited by urbanfan89; June 14th, 2008 at 08:54 AM.
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Old June 14th, 2008, 11:15 AM   #387
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Who's going to walk 4 miles to get to the metro station and then walk 2 miles to get to work at this day in age? I jogged 3.6 miles this morning for exercise and it took me 55 minutes and it rained half of that time. Walking ******* sucks for people in the United States. If you're in Europe you could walk one mile and pass the dry cleaners, fancy restaurant, night club, clothing store, tailor, post office and many other stores, in the United States you'll probably get fence line and trees for one mile before you hit any sense of "civilization." Where my parents live the local convenient store is about a 1 hour walk from the house which is only about a 1.5 minute drive.
but im talking about the middle of the city. People walk a whole lot in Washington, and metro stations downtown really arent that far apart. the most popular form of public transportation in DC is the MetroBus, not the subway
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Old June 15th, 2008, 07:30 AM   #388
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This is good news...though America only had half as many people in 1950 as there are today.
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Old June 24th, 2008, 08:59 AM   #389
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Soaring ridership comes at a cost for bus systems
23 June 2008

KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) - Soaring gas prices are prompting a sharp increase in ridership on buses in the Kansas City metro area and elsewhere across the country.

The surge is so great that many buses are jammed so tightly that many riders are forced to stand up during their commute. And with gas prices still climbing, transportation officials are concerned that the aging bus system could soon be overwhelmed.

"A lot of metros are finding themselves unequipped to handle the surge right now," said Robert Puentes, a transportation expert at the Brookings Institution. "The level of transit investment in this country is astonishingly lacking."

Some suburban Kansas City riders are reporting savings of $100 to $400 a month in fuel by taking the bus instead of driving their cars.

But the increased load is taking its toll on a transportation system that is trying to accommodate the heavy demand while coping with the higher cost of fuel.

First-quarter ridership on Kansas City's Metro system increased 10 percent in the first quarter; nationwide ridership has risen only 2 percent.

Earlier this month, there were 198 instances when a Metro bus had standing room only. There were 34 instances in which at least 20 people had to stand, and sometimes as many as 30 or 40.

"We're turning people away on limited routes," said Mark Huffer, general manager of the American Public Transportation Association. "That will only get exacerbated as fuel continues to go up."

Boardings in Kansas City suburbs rose 30 percent in the first quarter, thanks a great deal to the K-10 route that runs from Johnson County, Kan., to Lawrence, Kan. Transit officials in Johnson County say that 12 to 15 of the roughly 50 trips they run every day are standing room only.

"We will go into a crisis mode if we don't respond quickly," said Marge Vogt, a member of the Olathe City Council and the ATA board of commissioners.

Transit officials in Johnson County posted signs explaining that there was no money to expand service and relieve crowding on the buses.

Officials say the packed buses are indicative of an undersized transit system that might not be able to keep up with ridership if gas prices go much higher.

"I'm surprised," said Tedrick Housh, vice chairman of the Regional Transit Alliance. "I think $4 (gas) was more of a tipping point than I thought it would be. Five bucks is going to put all these agencies to the test."

Transit spending in the region, spread across three agencies in Kansas City, Johnson County, Kan., and Wyandotte County, Kan., is $80 million to $85 million.

Without new money, transit systems are looking for ways to pay for increased demand. Many systems nationwide are increasing fares, cutting service or delaying improvements.

"Transit agencies themselves are not immune from the rising energy costs, and we are seeing a kind of perverse reaction," Puentes said. "As ridership increases, they're starting to cut back on service."

Kansas City's fuel bill is expected to be $2 million to $3 million higher than forecast this year, while Johnson County has spent $200,000 more for fuel this year than it did in 2007.

Huffer said fare increases on Johnson County and Kansas City buses is "almost a certainty" next year.

"Fuel costs are a double-edged sword for us," he said. "It drives people onto the bus and they're staying, which is a good thing, but it obviously impacts our costs."
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Old June 24th, 2008, 09:05 AM   #390
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An entire day? Do you really live in DC? Its not that hard to walk to the metro.
I don't think so. Do you want to walk 5 miles to the metro? You must be insane. The people in the US are just lazy and not wanting to talk anywhere but just take the car and get where they need to. No wonder obesity is a problem here.
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Old June 24th, 2008, 09:08 AM   #391
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I don't think so. Do you want to walk 5 miles to the metro? You must be insane. The people in the US are just lazy and not wanting to talk anywhere but just take the car and get where they need to. No wonder obesity is a problem here.
5 miles? what metro are you talking about? if you think that americans dont use public transportation because of laziness then you need to check your sources
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Old June 24th, 2008, 09:09 AM   #392
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Who's going to walk 4 miles to get to the metro station and then walk 2 miles to get to work at this day in age? I jogged 3.6 miles this morning for exercise and it took me 55 minutes and it rained half of that time. Walking ******* sucks for people in the United States. If you're in Europe you could walk one mile and pass the dry cleaners, fancy restaurant, night club, clothing store, tailor, post office and many other stores, in the United States you'll probably get fence line and trees for one mile before you hit any sense of "civilization." Where my parents live the local convenient store is about a 1 hour walk from the house which is only about a 1.5 minute drive.
i totally agree with you and it's not just in Europe but also in Asia (especially Seoul and Tokyo) too! You can walk 5 minutes from your apartment or neighborhood and find a metro station, convenience store, karaoke, bars, restaurants, tailor shops, fast-food chains, pharmacy, martial arts center, library, bookstore, etc. And plus I soooo agree with your last sentence about the 1 hr walk to the convenience store when only about 1.5 minute drive haha...I live in Fairfax, VA and the convenience store in front of my apartment takes 30 minutes to get to and back from when it takes less than 3 minutes by car lol I just sold my car so I have to walk if I want stuff now till I leave this place >_<
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Old June 24th, 2008, 09:15 AM   #393
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i totally agree with you and it's not just in Europe but also in Asia (especially Seoul and Tokyo) too! You can walk 5 minutes from your apartment or neighborhood and find a metro station, convenience store, karaoke, bars, restaurants, tailor shops, fast-food chains, pharmacy, martial arts center, library, bookstore, etc. And plus I soooo agree with your last sentence about the 1 hr walk to the convenience store when only about 1.5 minute drive haha...I live in Fairfax, VA and the convenience store in front of my apartment takes 30 minutes to get to and back from when it takes less than 3 minutes by car lol I just sold my car so I have to walk if I want stuff now till I leave this place >_<
so what if it takes longer to walk somewhere. Honestly i have no clue where you live because theres shopping centers everywhere around here, i cant see it taking half an hour. and if it does, its not like your in the middle of the city where things are closer by. if you dont like it here then why are you complaining about it?
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Old June 24th, 2008, 09:58 AM   #394
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I think it's more a problem of convenience, then a bit of laziness as well. US suburbs are not built for walking. The sidewalks are there but are people willing to walk long distances with their groceries?
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Old June 24th, 2008, 10:32 AM   #395
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I think it's more a problem of convenience, then a bit of laziness as well. US suburbs are not built for walking. The sidewalks are there but are people willing to walk long distances with their groceries?
no, most people wouldnt be willing to do it because driving is faster, but it has nothing to do with laziness. in some cases there are shopping centers within a neighborhood so maybe then people would walk. whatever is the fastest way to go. some of the hardest working people in the US live in the suburbs, not wanting to walk does not equal laziness.
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Old June 24th, 2008, 01:47 PM   #396
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A very small step, but definitely a positive one...
misery for these plebs, ever used to driving every where
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Old June 24th, 2008, 02:49 PM   #397
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Seriously,shut up
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Old June 24th, 2008, 07:21 PM   #398
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Originally Posted by brianmoon85 View Post
I don't know about that. Most US cities are not biker or evne pedestrian friendly. Plus, it would take the entire day to go from one place to another since everything is so far away. Why can't they construct subway lines in each mid-scale to large cities that connects to important business, historical, and residential places like other countries do??? In the US, it is so hard to get around if you don't have a car. I live in DC and it's a pain, and NO the DC metro doesn't even stand a chance to Seoul or Tokyo's subway system. You can NEVER walk to a subway system in the USA, you need a car, park at the metro parking garage and then ride the metro...which is RIDICULOUS
Your Location says NY.
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Old June 25th, 2008, 04:36 AM   #399
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so what if it takes longer to walk somewhere. Honestly i have no clue where you live because theres shopping centers everywhere around here, i cant see it taking half an hour. and if it does, its not like your in the middle of the city where things are closer by. if you dont like it here then why are you complaining about it?
He is trying to say how other countries even within residential districts, restaurants, shops and stores are close by. When I lived in Japan, the main busy road was where all that was. And the staions weren't that far too. Also people usually biked to get to places. But since here in the US we are such car oriented, the residential areas are usually somewhat distant to the commercial areas. Like where I live in San Francisco, all the shops if I walked would be about 20 minutes away when its like 2 minutes by car and 5 minutes by bus. In the suburbs well its a different story...
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Old June 27th, 2008, 07:14 AM   #400
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Actually to be honest, you'd be lucky to even have a sidewalk in suburbs.
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