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Old June 10th, 2005, 10:53 PM   #41
ssiguy2
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Anyway, back to the discussion. Considering Edmonton and Calgary have nearly the same population, Calgary's syystem is far superior. Ottawa's system is OK but rapid bus doesn't make sence for a city that gets a lot of snow. Also there are so many buses downtown Ottawa that it slows everything down as they bog each other down.
Winnipegs isn't up to much and although Ive never been on QuebecCity's I heard and by the stats, it doesn't seem to be up to much either.
London's is far supeior to KW/C or Windsor's. I take Vic transit a lot, not bad. They are hoping to do an LRT but that could be ages away.
Of the three largest cities in Canada, Toronto has, by far, the best system folklowed by Montreal. Vancouver's isn't even in their league.
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Old June 10th, 2005, 11:15 PM   #42
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What about Boston? While it is old and the LRT line can be painfully slow, it is a well used and extensive system for a mid-sized city in NA. It also has the third biggest suburban rail system behind NYC and Chicago. I think it is in the top seven in all of NA. Behind - NYC, Chicago, Mexico, Montreal, Toronto, and DC

And San Francsico is not just the BART. They have an extensive LRT line, similar to the pre-metros in Europe. They are also adding another line with plans for a underground stops downtown.
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Old June 10th, 2005, 11:33 PM   #43
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^ I don't think we were including commutter rail, but no one said that we couldn't. Then I would be a whole different can of beans, especially for NYC (with great Metro North service).
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Old June 11th, 2005, 02:10 AM   #44
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Toronto also has great and extensive commuter rail system named GO.
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Old June 11th, 2005, 02:16 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roch5220
LOL. So that makes you an expert eh. You obviously live in your own bubble vs people that use it every single day as their primary mode of transportation. I can tell you the variance of trip times is a lot higher taking the MTA vs. smaller, better mainatined and newer systems. If you are a real transit enthusiast and fan of the MTA, then you should have read already the impending subway crisis (which even with the operational issues currently, we are not in yet) that the system faces billions upon billions of dollars in mainteance that is not being done. The article in the New Yorker sums it up well.

With such an efficeint system, you'd probably wonder why the onslaught of taxies in Manhattan, on the popularity of it. If you ask the avg. New Yorker, they will tell more times than not that the MTA sucks. Customer satisfaction is LOW, a lot lower than other transit systems that have great coverage.
I wouldnt say nikko lives in his own bubble..
I use the system everyday, and yes sometimes the mta can effing blow, but not everyone in or eveyrthing about the mta blows. The line superintendents can be some of the best people you'll meet in the mta (sometimes...sometimes indeed)

I've rode on the systems in DC, Boston, Miami, and Philadelphia and they're alright, but i'm thankful we have this system here, i'm thankful we have such a large transit network that can enable me not only to get around the city, but go to new jersey, ct, out on long island and such

sure there are some really effed up delays at time, but this is not on every line, sometimes the delays can be due to overcrowding on lines at times particularly parts of the lexington line and this is due to the fact that the second av sub was never built..despsite this I wouldn't say customer satisfaction is low, despite all the increases on fare and montly's/unlimiteds in the recent past..which have really ate my pockets and made me even broker..I still really appreciate that metrocard transfer!

I really like the aesthetic of some of the DC stations but I don't like the distance between them
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Old June 11th, 2005, 02:21 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roch5220
^ I don't think we were including commutter rail, but no one said that we couldn't. Then I would be a whole different can of beans, especially for NYC (with great Metro North service).
Metro-North service is far from great (its really only consistent if your taking it straight to grand central or 125th, but using it for local service i.e. Mount Vernon w to fordham, Peekskill to greystone, new rochelle to norwalk..very inconsistent service which is plauged by delays...especially on the New Haven line)

the m7's are nice though
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Old June 11th, 2005, 02:34 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Third of a kind

sure there are some really effed up delays at time, but this is not on every line, sometimes the delays can be due to overcrowding on lines at times particularly parts of the lexington line and this is due to the fact that the second av sub was never built..despsite this I wouldn't say customer satisfaction is low, despite all the increases on fare and montly's/unlimiteds in the recent past..which have really ate my pockets and made me even broker..I still really appreciate that metrocard transfer!
I would really question the overall satisfaction of the MTA (ignoring physical customer service). Most I work with and hang out with tend to agree, and I know we are not alone - due to the local media. Some of it does relate to the overcrowding of the 456, and some of it has to do reconstruction of some of the queens lines (everytime on the weekend I go that way - its always one thing or the other - delays, or construction/hence having to back track). Here are the biggest beefs I have for the system:

- during non peak times (ie weekends), poor frequencies, even for the 456 (which are supposively the heavist travelled line). actual frequencies are lower than say the TTC (sorry to keep on using the TTC as a comparison but I know both systems the best), this results in overcrowding like crazy
- construcition - heres an idea, do it at night
- the overal network is good yes, but if you live in UES, its bad. The connections to midtown (5th avenue and west of that) is poor, which is coupled with bad NRW (which I think is the worst line). I usually walk home cause it takes less time (in the morning I'm too tired)

Gotta go, will spew later.
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Old June 11th, 2005, 08:16 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roch5220
^ great response. keep on churning out the 'everybody knows' cause you think it arguments, oh yeah, and the "cause I'm a transit enthusist" arguments.
1) Sentence structure, consider revising,

2) I used the enthusiast justification because regular users of the system (i.e. you ) who eat this "forever-impending" subway crisis theory, would know very little about the acutally workings of the system. For what it is, it's a great system because of it's sheer complexity and the MTA's ability to keep up with it in good, working order.


Would you like to suggest any other systems in NA that are extensive as the MTA?

The CTA is out because it is IN A CRISIS (Not an "Impending" one)
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Old June 11th, 2005, 04:33 PM   #49
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A lot of systems in N.A. are extensive, including all forms of transportation. Even in NYC, the subway system isn't extensive enough as it does not serve the east side well enough, 1st ave, york, avenue a, b, c,d (in the lower east side), but are supplemented with buses. You couldn't get the ridership of the top 5 systems with out having proper feeder/shuttle busses to the heavy rail network. And don't forget that an efficient system will have heavy rail where the ridership warrants, and busses or light rail elsewhere. Hence, most of the mid size systems do this well.

"For what it is, it's a great system because of it's sheer complexity and the MTA's ability to keep up with it in good, working order"

For you, you rank just based upon extensiveness of heavy rail. This is definately flawed as I rank both extensiveness and service. The extensiveness I think has been the MTA's downfall due to funding shortages. Waiting for specific routes (ie the Q th at run on the NRWQ rounte in manhattan) can take forever. Mid sized systems where there are no express, you know the subway will come every 2-5 minutes in peak, and 4-5 in non-peak. Sometimes I view some of the routes as underground commutter rail.

Working order - well, coming into work this saturday morning, again, a long list of closed stations/service disruptions. Every weekend, I just hope it not my station when I arrive. Most other HRT systems do their construction at night, and/or close earlier. I pity the people trying to get to/from brooklyn on the green line on theweekends, becuase most times, there is no service.

I feel the best service (HRT) is in the boroughs, bringing people into manhattan. service withing is manhattan is pretty poor as during peak times, if you don't leave before 8 am, you'll be waiting 4 trains cause of people from the boroughs. Also, I feel the east west travel quite time consuming.

I feel the Montreal has the best (HRT) service downtown (it is a way smaller area), while Toronto has the best rail transit downtown (tram + subway) as well as surburban feeder bus integration with subway stations.

NYC has the greatest reach and best surburban coverage (with the express trains during the weekdays).
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Old June 11th, 2005, 04:41 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikko
2) I used the enthusiast justification because regular users of the system (i.e. you ) who eat this "forever-impending" subway crisis theory, would know very little about the acutally workings of the system. For what it is, it's a great system because of it's sheer complexity and the MTA's ability to keep up with it in good, working order.
)

Quite funny being considered a 'regular user' who doesn't know the workings vs you, who don't know anything except tibits I feed you, and from your touristy trips. Transit is my hobby as well, but I don't push it off as expert opinion like you, who probably base everything on the touristy tibits of information you can get your hands on.
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Old June 11th, 2005, 10:18 PM   #51
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L.A. system isn't stellar but is getting there. There are large extentions underway, soon to start with more expansion in the long term.
Vancouver's is good for the size of the city it is but is still vastly underused and has cost a lot of money with unimpressive numbers when compered to other major Canadian cities.
The bus service in the city, however, it quite good.
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Old June 12th, 2005, 10:22 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roch5220
Quite funny being considered a 'regular user' who doesn't know the workings vs you, who don't know anything except tibits I feed you, and from your touristy trips. Transit is my hobby as well, but I don't push it off as expert opinion like you, who probably base everything on the touristy tibits of information you can get your hands on.
touristy tidbits?
ao the subway is a "tourist attraction" now, opposed to the city's first and foremost mode of transport?

Cut back on the estrogen or soemthing. You are getting way too emotional over something I said. NYC obviously takes out the title of king just by the sheer size and usage.

What do you think is a fitting title for the subway?
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Old June 12th, 2005, 04:26 PM   #53
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^Wow, I take it back, based upon your vast knowledge that you have claimed to have being a transit enthusiest, and now I see have backed it up with, you must be right.
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Old June 12th, 2005, 07:46 PM   #54
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Back at the discussion, AGAIN.............. SanFran has a good system especially for the states. BART was great but is a commuter type system, doesn't do the people in the city any good. The streetcar system was good but the cars were a bite old and not particularily clean. Toronto's streetcar system is far supeirior.
Much of things also have to do with geography. The city of SanFran is reletivly small due to its geography and is spread out due to the water and huge hills so subway's wouldn't be practical and with those hill, down right impossible.
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Old June 12th, 2005, 07:54 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2
BART was great but ...... doesn't do the people in the city any good.
Like the skytrain. I think we should expand this to include all commutter/modes of transportation.
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Old June 13th, 2005, 04:49 AM   #56
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Ya, true.
The question I raised when I started this thread was what city in NA has the best transit system and CommuterRail is part of that.
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Old June 13th, 2005, 02:16 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roch5220
^Wow, I take it back, based upon your vast knowledge that you have claimed to have being a transit enthusiest, and now I see have backed it up with, you must be right.
Why thank you.

anyway, what do you think is a more fitting title for the subway?
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Old June 13th, 2005, 11:38 PM   #58
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I understand that Kitchener/Waterlou/Cambridge is hoping to have a LRT from one end to the other and would like it built {or atleast some of it} by 2025.
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Old June 15th, 2005, 05:25 AM   #59
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NYC
Mexico City
Toronto
San Francisco
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Old June 15th, 2005, 05:40 AM   #60
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i can't imagine LA's transit system being one of the best. i just spent a few days in LA using the public transport; the subway system isn't exactly tiny, but LA is so spread out i had to take the bus most of the time. plus i really dont think it can be considered anywhere near clean.
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