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Old July 21st, 2010, 09:37 PM   #1
1772
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MISC | Catenary-free trams

A friend of mine once said that there are some sort of "wireless" trams in development.
Meaning thathey dont run on cables above, but with electricity being carried in the rails, but only active where the trams wheels are.

Anyone know what I mean?

Last edited by dimlys1994; March 20th, 2016 at 09:11 AM.
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Old July 21st, 2010, 09:49 PM   #2
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Bordeaux tram use a ground-level power supply (called APS) in center of the city.
It was the frist tram to have this system in 2003.


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Old July 21st, 2010, 11:28 PM   #3
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1772 probably thought about Bombardier's PRIMOVE system,which is quite different than that used in Bordeaux

Last edited by Eurotram; July 21st, 2010 at 11:36 PM.
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Old July 21st, 2010, 11:38 PM   #4
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DC is planning a system that would use wires in most of the city and wireless segment in certain areas....
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Old July 21st, 2010, 11:56 PM   #5
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In some cities trams run without wires in certains sections, using batteries. The problem is that these sections can't be too long because trams are only able to run without wires for a few hundred meters. I've seen this system in Nice (France).
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Old July 22nd, 2010, 12:44 AM   #6
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Austin & Ottawa have diesel trams
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Old July 22nd, 2010, 01:05 AM   #7
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Theres two schemes (that I know of) going ahead using Primove so far none built yet, its quite different to a electric rail thats selectivley isolated.
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Old July 22nd, 2010, 01:44 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
Austin & Ottawa have diesel trams
Austin & Ottawa don't have a trams , there commuter rail lines.
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Old July 22nd, 2010, 10:40 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
Austin & Ottawa don't have a trams , there commuter rail lines.
Ottawa is going to convert O-train to tram; it would be already done if O'Brien wasn't so stupid and stubborn.I wonder how big will be compensations for Siemens if they (Ottawa) not choose Avanto again...?
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Old July 22nd, 2010, 11:00 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
Bordeaux tram use a ground-level power supply (called APS) in center of the city.
It was the frist tram to have this system in 2003.
Aha, there we go. So that's probably the one.
Why dosen't every tram use these? Why do cities still build with wires?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eurotram View Post
1772 probably thought about Bombardier's PRIMOVE system,which is quite different than that used in Bordeaux
How do they differ from each other?
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Old July 22nd, 2010, 02:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1772 View Post
How do they differ from each other?
In Bordeaux you have a third rail,but it's not a "clasical" third rail: it's a safe version,in which energy is supplied only to this section of the third rail which is just under the tram.
PRIMOVE is based on electromagnetic induction (so the tram doesn't touch the wire or third rail).
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Old July 22nd, 2010, 04:15 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eurotram View Post
In Bordeaux you have a third rail,but it's not a "clasical" third rail: it's a safe version,in which energy is supplied only to this section of the third rail which is just under the tram.
PRIMOVE is based on electromagnetic induction (so the tram doesn't touch the wire or third rail).
I see. Which one is the best / safest?
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Old July 22nd, 2010, 05:02 PM   #13
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How do wireless trams/trolleys use a 3rd rail in the middle of the street, without it possibly electrocuting people?

Last edited by xerxesjc28; July 22nd, 2010 at 05:09 PM.
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Old July 22nd, 2010, 08:41 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xerxesjc28 View Post
How do wireless trams/trolleys use a 3rd rail in the middle of the street, without it possibly electrocuting people?
The whole third rail is divided into short sections.And as I've written,the power is supplied only to this section,which is actually under the tram (you know,system of sensors etc.). This solution is safe,but quite expensive.

1772: for now we can't assess,due to PRIMOVE (as you've written) is still in experimental stage.

Last edited by Eurotram; July 22nd, 2010 at 08:48 PM.
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Old July 22nd, 2010, 09:15 PM   #15
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Three time more expensive than overhead wires.
That's why several other tram networks use batteries instead of this system.

Nice tram use batteries.

Picture by Zil

Anyway in Bordeaux or in Nice most of the network have average overhead wires.
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Old July 22nd, 2010, 09:24 PM   #16
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I still don't see why this Bordeaux-style third rail that expensive in comparison with traditional overhead wire. A safe system of sensors and switches shouldn't be very complicated and the overhead wire isn't exactly free to build either.
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Old July 22nd, 2010, 09:56 PM   #17
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It is much more expensive than conventional overhead wiring, plus its proprietary technology and the solutions that exist so far are incompatible. If you opt for one system, you are usually stuck with one supplier of tram vehicles.
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Old July 23rd, 2010, 12:10 AM   #18
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The system is definitely 3x more expensive than wires, and initially had serious reliability problems, which is expected for such a system. The system is apparently very reliable now, but you cannot escape the cost issues. I do not see ground level power systems replacing wires in this lifetime, especially considering OCS technology is advanced enough that "invisible" wires can be strung up with minimal visual intrusion. Only a fool engineer would consider mainline railway style cantenary through a city centre.
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Old July 23rd, 2010, 08:28 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy Llama View Post
A safe system of sensors and switches shouldn't be very complicated and the overhead wire isn't exactly free to build either.
First, everything integrated in the pavement is always more expensive. You have to dig a hole, install the system and than redo the pavement. Wires just can be attacked to buildings in the city.
Secondly, such a system is indeed more complicated that it might seem. Each section wich can by maximum has the half of the length of the shortest tram serving the tram has to have a sensor (is a tram on top) and has to have two relay that can handle the current and the voltage used by the tram. Why two? Because this is a savety issue, if one relay is stuck (which is quite possible) the other one will turn the power off.
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Old July 25th, 2010, 11:53 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
DC is planning a system that would use wires in most of the city and wireless segment in certain areas....
So DC approved the Right Rail plan over the purple line?
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