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Old August 9th, 2010, 03:33 AM   #41
historyworks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
The crappy Translohr system applied in Padua has a stretch running along historic buildings, so it runs on batteries.

A big con is that Lohr guarantees the batteries only up to 3-cars vehicles, so we had not only to buy this crap, but also to use short trams
I'm sure it was not compulsory that Padua "had" to buy them but somebody in charge of the city's money was unfortunately beguiled by a smooth-talking salesman and the citizens/taxpayers did not take the appropriate action!

So how are tram wires not a problem in a UNESCO-listed World Heritage city like Prague but are a problem in other old cities? If there is a big plaza to cross maybe I can understand but in narrow streets tram wires are almost invisible.
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Old August 9th, 2010, 04:19 AM   #42
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It gets compulsory when the guy in charge is unaware about "modern day serious transport solutions" and citizens are unaware about "modern day serious politicians choosing"

Despite its consistent development in recent years, Padua average citizen is very small minded and lacks the "metropolitan way of thinking" that is needed to handle important projects. And this is sad.
People writing on this board likes to see development and evolution of cities. I think we all feel bad about cities not developing; but I assume we feel even worse seeing development pointing in the wrong direction... such a waste. Years wasted.

Anyway, the point was about wires. The wireless stretch in Padua is partially in a narrow road, where buildings could have been used for hanging wires, and partly in a very wide plaza (Prato della Valle).
My point is that, since the route lies on the border of the area, and not crossing in the middle of it, wires would have been hardly recognizable, and poles could have been integrated with light lamps, with a classic design.

Italian projects are often penalized by two factors:
- people consider ancient buildings "untouchable", even if they're a bunch of debris
- people and city administrators are deeply ignorant about "modern stuff"

So, the crap is served, ladies and gentleman...
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Old August 9th, 2010, 09:58 PM   #43
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X-Posting from Japan Thread (Originally Posted by Quashlo)
Kinki Sharyō completes new LFX-300 LRV for United States market
http://www.kinkisharyo.co.jp/ja/news/news100721.htm

They also have a Flickr account to advertise their latest rolling stock orders for the U.S. market:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kinkisharyo/[/QUOTE]

Kinki Sharyō and our United States subsidiary Kinki Sharyō USA, Inc. have developed and manufactured an operational prototype of our LFX-300 next-generation light rail vehicle (LRV) for the United States market. The train is 100% low-floor and allows for easy boarding and alighting from ground level, and is also designed for easy wheelchair mobility. As a unique characteristic, this next-generation LRV is not only capable of collecting power from its rooftop pantograph, but can also run on a lithium-ion battery equipped on the train.

For a quarter of a century, Kinki Sharyō has supplied over 500 LRVs to clients both within Japan and in major cities in North America, and our 70% low-floor LRV, our flagship product, boasts the top share in the North American market. With the addition of the newly-developed LFX-300, we will be able to meet a diversity of customer needs.

The concept and details of the LFX-300 are summarized below.

User-friendly 100% low-floor train
In order to satisfy the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) requirements for equal and amenable treatment of all passengers, the passenger cabin is a 100% all-flat low-floor design, and uses a hydraulic suspension to eliminate height differences between the car floor and platform. The design of the car also meets American requirements for vehicle strength in collisions. In addition to allowing for rotation of wheelchairs, the passenger cabin ensures an 880 m wide corridor, and the entry / exit areas and furnishings are based on a concept of universal design. The various electrical components are connected by Ethernet, allowing for flexible response to systems changes or additions.

Environmentally-friendly low-energy consumption
Compared to other transport modes, trains are low-energy and environmentally-friendly. In particular, thanks to regenerative brakes that use the train’s motors as a generator when braking and feed electrical energy back into the network through the overhead wire, trains help reduce the burden on the environment. Up until now, this regenerative braking system was not available for use on unelectrified sections, but equipped with a lithium-ion battery, the LFX-300 stores the regenerative braking energy inside the battery even on unelectrified sections, allowing for efficient use of the regenerative braking system. When operating on electrified sections, the system also prevents regenerative braking lapses.

High-speed operations designed for convenience in suburban areas
A speed of around 40 kph is often seen as the norm for urban areas, where station spacing is short and operations must work in tandem with other transport modes. On the other hand, in cases of traveling on exclusive right-of-way through suburban areas or between cities, increasing speed on these sections will lead to reduced journey times. The top speed of the LFX-300 is 80 kph, allowing for high-speed running from the suburbs to the urban area, and the train features high acceleration and deceleration capabilities equivalent to our 70% low-floor LRVs in use in American urban areas.

Catenary-free operation that improves urban spaces
The LFX-300 can operate without catenary using its lithium-ion battery. Compared to nickel-hydride and other types of batteries currently in use, lithium-ion batteries are lighter and smaller, but have high output and high capacity. Lithium-ion batteries also feature a high cell voltage, making them an ideal choice to power trains.
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Old August 9th, 2010, 09:59 PM   #44
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X-Posting from Japan Thread (Originally Posted by Quashlo)
Kinki Sharyō completes new LFX-300 LRV for United States market
http://www.kinkisharyo.co.jp/ja/news/news100721.htm

They also have a Flickr account to advertise their latest rolling stock orders for the U.S. market:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kinkisharyo/[/QUOTE]

Kinki Sharyō and our United States subsidiary Kinki Sharyō USA, Inc. have developed and manufactured an operational prototype of our LFX-300 next-generation light rail vehicle (LRV) for the United States market. The train is 100% low-floor and allows for easy boarding and alighting from ground level, and is also designed for easy wheelchair mobility. As a unique characteristic, this next-generation LRV is not only capable of collecting power from its rooftop pantograph, but can also run on a lithium-ion battery equipped on the train.

For a quarter of a century, Kinki Sharyō has supplied over 500 LRVs to clients both within Japan and in major cities in North America, and our 70% low-floor LRV, our flagship product, boasts the top share in the North American market. With the addition of the newly-developed LFX-300, we will be able to meet a diversity of customer needs.

The concept and details of the LFX-300 are summarized below.

User-friendly 100% low-floor train
In order to satisfy the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) requirements for equal and amenable treatment of all passengers, the passenger cabin is a 100% all-flat low-floor design, and uses a hydraulic suspension to eliminate height differences between the car floor and platform. The design of the car also meets American requirements for vehicle strength in collisions. In addition to allowing for rotation of wheelchairs, the passenger cabin ensures an 880 m wide corridor, and the entry / exit areas and furnishings are based on a concept of universal design. The various electrical components are connected by Ethernet, allowing for flexible response to systems changes or additions.

Environmentally-friendly low-energy consumption
Compared to other transport modes, trains are low-energy and environmentally-friendly. In particular, thanks to regenerative brakes that use the train’s motors as a generator when braking and feed electrical energy back into the network through the overhead wire, trains help reduce the burden on the environment. Up until now, this regenerative braking system was not available for use on unelectrified sections, but equipped with a lithium-ion battery, the LFX-300 stores the regenerative braking energy inside the battery even on unelectrified sections, allowing for efficient use of the regenerative braking system. When operating on electrified sections, the system also prevents regenerative braking lapses.

High-speed operations designed for convenience in suburban areas
A speed of around 40 kph is often seen as the norm for urban areas, where station spacing is short and operations must work in tandem with other transport modes. On the other hand, in cases of traveling on exclusive right-of-way through suburban areas or between cities, increasing speed on these sections will lead to reduced journey times. The top speed of the LFX-300 is 80 kph, allowing for high-speed running from the suburbs to the urban area, and the train features high acceleration and deceleration capabilities equivalent to our 70% low-floor LRVs in use in American urban areas.

Catenary-free operation that improves urban spaces
The LFX-300 can operate without catenary using its lithium-ion battery. Compared to nickel-hydride and other types of batteries currently in use, lithium-ion batteries are lighter and smaller, but have high output and high capacity. Lithium-ion batteries also feature a high cell voltage, making them an ideal choice to power trains.
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Old August 11th, 2010, 12:20 AM   #45
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My mobiles lithium-ion battery only lasts a year of charges and discharges before it starts storing ever smaller charges, lithium batteries for a vehicle this size are going to be expensive and frequently replaced.
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Old August 11th, 2010, 03:08 PM   #46
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I got to some similar conclusions.
4-axle (so bogies only,as in modern 3-section trams) only under the 1-st and and the 3-rd section... so it must be as short as it looks like (IMHO no more than 22 metres,maybe less).Design similar to Seattle's LRV's... But the main questions are:
- what is the price of this tram?
- how long is "life" of those batteries (how many cycles till replacement is necessary)?
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Old August 13th, 2010, 02:59 PM   #47
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In my opinion these systems are a waste of money. They don't add any functionality to the tram at pretty high costs and lots of disadvantages (proprietary systems, limited choice of trams etc). The justification for all of that seems to be to get rid of the wiring.

Living in Vienna, the city is full with wiring, not only from trams but from street and traffic lights as well. If you are used to it, it is no problem at all and certainly does not drag down the cityscape.

In case you want to have more stylish option why not going for some old style or futuristic design wiring? It hardly would be more expensive than the wire free options without the other disadvantages.
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Old August 13th, 2010, 03:52 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
In my opinion these systems are a waste of money. They don't add any functionality to the tram at pretty high costs and lots of disadvantages (proprietary systems, limited choice of trams etc). The justification for all of that seems to be to get rid of the wiring.

Living in Vienna, the city is full with wiring, not only from trams but from street and traffic lights as well. If you are used to it, it is no problem at all and certainly does not drag down the cityscape.

In case you want to have more stylish option why not going for some old style or futuristic design wiring? It hardly would be more expensive than the wire free options without the other disadvantages.
In my opinion in some case it may be important. e.g. Rome (IT) ordered trolleybuses with batteries in order not to build wires 20m from the Colosseum. I'm not sure but I think even the French use the wireless trams for short sections only. In Budapest trolleys make an indirection in order not tu build wires in the middle of Hősök tere.
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Old August 15th, 2010, 12:23 PM   #49
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Well, Vienna might not have these kind of situations of trams going through the 1st district as they are situated along the ring road in the centre. But the entire ring road is a major sight and no one is bothered by the wires at least not the locals.
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Old August 15th, 2012, 06:36 PM   #50
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Hate to bump this thread, but I want to ask this question: Is there a purpose for the overhead wires above a light-rail/tram line?
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Old August 15th, 2012, 07:52 PM   #51
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Yeah, powering the thing.
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Old August 15th, 2012, 08:47 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim856796 View Post
Hate to bump this thread, but I want to ask this question: Is there a purpose for the overhead wires above a light-rail/tram line?
No there for decoration....
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Old August 15th, 2012, 10:15 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim856796 View Post
Hate to bump this thread, but I want to ask this question: Is there a purpose for the overhead wires above a light-rail/tram line?
They're for birds to sit on and observe the people, make sure we don't get out of order.




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Old August 18th, 2012, 03:22 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
The crappy Translohr system applied in Padua has a stretch running along historic buildings, so it runs on batteries.

A big con is that Lohr guarantees the batteries only up to 3-cars vehicles, so we had not only to buy this crap, but also to use short trams






Some bad movies from my old camera...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9SdTn92PQQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR_jZR7_LJ8
What are they on tires? Can they move away from the rail?
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Old August 18th, 2012, 06:22 AM   #55
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Dallas demonstrated the Kinkisharyo Ameritram recently, which can run for 5 miles on lithium-ion battery power. It is suspected this type of tram will be selected for planned streetcar lines in the city, since it will save cost by eliminating wires in segments of the route (such as crossing a historic bridge).

http://www.ameritram.com/



http://www.metro-magazine.com/News/S...r-at-EXPO.aspx

VIDEO
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Old August 18th, 2012, 11:58 AM   #56
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I'm curious as to what the status of research and development must be per inducing and maintaining temperatures of less than minus 200 degrees Celcius in batteries, for I understand overcoming that hurdle would bring about long-term, industrial battery power supply ...
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Old August 18th, 2012, 06:32 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alseimik View Post
What are they on tires? Can they move away from the rail?
Yes - Translohr runs on rubber tires guided by a central rail.
Unfortunately this seems to require more costs and maintenance respect a traditional two.rail tram since :
- For most of path builders were obliged to make a half-metre thick reinforced concrete runway
- Vibration and lateral stress fractures the pavement laid on sides
- On normal road surface the bitumen was fastly marked thus "grooving" by the tires.

No - the original project was presented as "able to be driven like a bus" , running on battery, but this was more vapourware than else , since un-drivable and not respecting any road regulamentation
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 01:22 AM   #58
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NYC




Once upon a time ...
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Old September 4th, 2012, 12:20 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
In my opinion in some case it may be important. e.g. Rome (IT) ordered trolleybuses with batteries in order not to build wires 20m from the Colosseum. I'm not sure but I think even the French use the wireless trams for short sections only. In Budapest trolleys make an indirection in order not tu build wires in the middle of Hősök tere.
Yes they do... and I don't get it. Whats the big deal with tram wiring in historic quarters? More cities that have trams have that than not.

Main square Linz:


Main square Zagreb:
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Last edited by Slartibartfas; September 4th, 2012 at 12:36 AM.
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Old September 4th, 2012, 04:49 AM   #60
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Dam square in Amsterdam, also no problems with wiring:




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