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Old July 27th, 2010, 02:25 PM   #61
flierfy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aswnl View Post
I propose the following standard usage:
* US - UK - FR - DE - NL
* interchange - motorway intersection/junction - échangeur/croix - Autobahnkreuz/Knoten - knooppunt/verkeerswisselaar
* grade separated junction - intersection/junction - diffuseur - Anslußstelle - aansluiting
* exit/offramp - exit/sliproad - sortie - Ausfahrt - afrit
You are free to make proposals. It still won't become the generally applicable terminology. Neither in this forum nor anywhere else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
So all these signs use the wrong word?
These aren't the wrong words. Contrary to Britain and Germany American highway authorities sign exits on freeways. Presumably they are aware of the difference.
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Old July 27th, 2010, 02:55 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by LMB View Post
Sorry, navigating city names only works well if you know the place to a large extent.
Navigating by destinations works fine with a general concept of geography. Navigating by road numbers requires a special knowledge of road numbering. Add to that that names of places are easier to remember.
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Old July 27th, 2010, 03:21 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
Navigating by destinations works fine with a general concept of geography. Navigating by road numbers requires a special knowledge of road numbering. Add to that that names of places are easier to remember.
Navigating by destinations works fine in a country that is reasonably consistent in which destinations it chooses to sign - the U.S. isn't - and if you have a "general concept of geography" - many people don't. And that's if the destinations aren't fairly small towns in an area you don't know well.

Navigating by road numbers requires not "a special knowledge of road numbering," but the ability to read a map. (And for those small towns in an area you don't know well you need to read the same map.)

I'm not sure it's easier to remember "Syracuse, then Binghamton, then Scranton, then Harrisburg, then Hagerstown" than it is to remember "I-81."
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Old July 27th, 2010, 03:33 PM   #64
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WTF are you guys talking about? I said "exit number"!!! Not "road number"!!!
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Old July 27th, 2010, 04:04 PM   #65
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Re the debate between Flierfy and Chriszwolle, exit would be an individual off-slip/off-ramp, whereas a junction is the junction/intersection between 2 or more roads.

For instance, the M25 (GB) at junction 16 has two exits - one for each direction of the M40 (only one entrance from the M40 though). Note that both are 16, and it's not 16A and 16B (like it would be in the USA, for instance).

Sometimes this gets a bit silly - M3 junction 14 for instance, where the M3 interchanges with the M27 - the mainline goes to the A33/A27, but exits off the M27 slips, which had split by direction a bit further north. It feels as if it is two junctions, even if technically it's only one.

I side with Flierfy here - there is a difference between numbering exits and numbering junctions.

---

In addition to having sequential numbering for junctions, spur junctions in the UK are often given 'A' suffixes (which leads the M25 junction on the M4 to be 4B, because 4A is on the Heathrow Spur from junction 4). That said, spur junction numbering is slap-dash - sometimes it is numbered, sometimes it isn't.

The City of Peterborough is mostly a 'new town' (ie massively enlarged in the last 50 years). It has a system of parkways and all junctions on them, and on a couple of other roads, are uniquely numbered in the city, and sequentially numbered on each road (note that no junction has two numbers, and the Inner Ring Road was never finished). more details
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Old July 27th, 2010, 04:13 PM   #66
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WTF are you guys talking about? I said "exit number"!!! Not "road number"!!!
And we're talking about road numbers:-)
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Old July 27th, 2010, 04:25 PM   #67
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Interesting is to figure out why some countries add one number for the entire exit (or junction if you will) and others for every off-ramp (or slip road if you will).

As far as I know, all European countries just give one number to the entire thing, but it seems to be common that each separate off-ramp is given an A/B/C etc suffix in the United States. I prefer the European way though. Suffixes make it unnecessary complicated, signage should be clear enough.
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Old July 27th, 2010, 04:55 PM   #68
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I can see the principle of numbering every exit from the main road, but it does get inconsistent, and it can get silly: for example, suppose they add a c/d road to what was a simple cloverleaf, where the exits used to be 30A and 30B. So now there's an exit from the main road to the c/d road, and then two exits from the c/d road the intersecting road.

Some states*, in this situation, would continue to mark the exits from the c/d road to the intersecting road as 30A and 30B, and the exit from the main road to the c/d road would be "30A-B" or "30B-A," depending which direction you're going.

Some states would mark the exit from the main road to the c/d road as "30" and leave it at that - I mean not number the exits from the c/d road to the intersecting road.

Some states would mark the exit from the main road to the c/d road as "30" and then the exits from the c/d road to the intersecting road as "30A" and "30B."

This last option, in my opinion, is unnecessarily complicated. I don't have strong opinions about the other two.

*And in some states, this seems to be a matter for local officials of the state Department of Transportation, so practice will vary from one area to another.
Which is just silly.
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Old July 27th, 2010, 05:49 PM   #69
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Slovenia uses suffixes for every ramp in interchanges (A, B, C, D, E, F...).

As for designating interchanges by names or by numbers, I think names are easier to remember, because they mean something. You can easily forget, whether you should take exit 34 or 43 etc.
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Old July 27th, 2010, 05:50 PM   #70
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Old July 27th, 2010, 06:01 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Interesting is to figure out why some countries add one number for the entire exit (or junction if you will) and others for every off-ramp (or slip road if you will).

As far as I know, all European countries just give one number to the entire thing, but it seems to be common that each separate off-ramp is given an A/B/C etc suffix in the United States. I prefer the European way though. Suffixes make it unnecessary complicated, signage should be clear enough.
With mileage-based exit numbers there really has to be suffixes for exits within the same interchange... I'm not sure about collector/distributor systems though, I guess with ones like that the distributor exit would be signed as "Exit 118-ABC" and then you'd have "Exit 118-A" and -B and -C, so maybe if there's another exit within that interchange past exit C that isn't within the distributor it'd be signed as 118-D and not mentioned on the "Exit 118-ABC".

All you need to know is, if you're given decent directions it'll tell you "...Take Interstate 81 South. Take Exit 118-C and turn right at US Rt. 460..."

Also note that before that intersection was rebuilt, Exit 118-C was the only exit there (signed as Exit 118)
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Last edited by nerdly_dood; July 27th, 2010 at 10:47 PM.
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Old July 27th, 2010, 06:30 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Slovenia uses suffixes for every ramp in interchanges (A, B, C, D, E, F...).

As for designating interchanges by names or by numbers, I think names are easier to remember, because they mean something. You can easily forget, whether you should take exit 34 or 43 etc.
There are Krzywa and Krzyzowa junctions/exits on A4 in Poland. I always confuse them

I see a slight difference in remembering, named or numbered junctions. Those with names have to be learned first and then memorized, but those with numbers just remembered. We all already know digits and numbers yet, so there is no need to learn them, unlike names. In particular when driving abroad.
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Old July 27th, 2010, 09:29 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
I can see the principle of numbering every exit from the main road, but it does get inconsistent, and it can get silly: for example, suppose they add a c/d road to what was a simple cloverleaf, where the exits used to be 30A and 30B. So now there's an exit from the main road to the c/d road, and then two exits from the c/d road the intersecting road.

Some states*, in this situation, would continue to mark the exits from the c/d road to the intersecting road as 30A and 30B, and the exit from the main road to the c/d road would be "30A-B" or "30B-A," depending which direction you're going.

Some states would mark the exit from the main road to the c/d road as "30" and leave it at that - I mean not number the exits from the c/d road to the intersecting road.

Some states would mark the exit from the main road to the c/d road as "30" and then the exits from the c/d road to the intersecting road as "30A" and "30B."

This last option, in my opinion, is unnecessarily complicated. I don't have strong opinions about the other two.

*And in some states, this seems to be a matter for local officials of the state Department of Transportation, so practice will vary from one area to another.
Which is just silly.
In just about all of the c/d highways I've been on the transfer lanes from the through/express lanes themselves aren't numbered. There's simply an overhead sign indicating which exits you can access in the c/d lanes. The individual exits off the highway are then numbered. The transfer lanes don't actually leave the highway, just from one section to another. Similarly, they wouldn't number the transfer lane from the c/d section to the through/express section.

Very rarely is there a dedicated exit from the through/express lanes. In those cases the exit number is the same as the one used for the exit in the c/d lane. It is after all the same point along the highway.

As for suffixes A and B seem to dominate, but are not always exclusive. I have seen exits with the cardinal direction as the suffix, which makes more sense if you're not paying attention to the signage ahead of time indicating which exit goes where.

With the majority of off-ramps here (in Ontario) being parclos you usually only have the one off-ramp for each exit. Older exits, or those with challenging geometries may require two ramps, but those are gradually being replaced where possible.
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Old July 27th, 2010, 10:15 PM   #74
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I'm not talking about long c/d lanes serving multiple interchanges, like on the 401, (the same thing you describe can also happen where there's a HOV lane), but about one that just appears for the duration of one interchange, like here:

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie...3,0.00825&z=17

(You have to zoom in pretty close to see the c/d road, but it's there.)
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Old July 27th, 2010, 11:31 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
I'm not talking about long c/d lanes serving multiple interchanges, like on the 401, (the same thing you describe can also happen where there's a HOV lane), but about one that just appears for the duration of one interchange, like here:

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie...3,0.00825&z=17

(You have to zoom in pretty close to see the c/d road, but it's there.)
I guess both problems could be easily solved: on the main road you indicate EXIT and then you put the letters/numbers for the off ramps/accesses.

For instance, in the case of this map, the main I-95 would get something like EXIT 109 A-B. Then, over the secondary lane only, A and B would be proplerly marked.

If auxiliary lanes carry traffic exiting/entering in many streets, at the beginning of the segregated section a HUGE sign should display: divided lanes: EXPRESS - LOCAL/EXITS 130 to 144.
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Old July 27th, 2010, 11:51 PM   #76
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If auxiliary lanes carry traffic exiting/entering in many streets, at the beginning of the segregated section a HUGE sign should display: divided lanes: EXPRESS - LOCAL/EXITS 130 to 144.
Like the top pair of pictures here (which aren't very good, but they're the best I can find):
http://www.njfreeways.com/NJGSPLocalPictures.html
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Old July 28th, 2010, 12:45 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
You are free to make proposals. It still won't become the generally applicable terminology. Neither in this forum nor anywhere else.
The terminology used in my proposal is generally applicable within a language, I thought. It would just be nice that in international discussions English speaking natives would think about the fact that in the rest of the world other terminology is used, and that they'd better not use certain words if they don't want to be misunderstood.

An international forum doesn't mean all non-English speakers have to adapt to all idiot US/UK-terminology - it also requires some adaptations from English speaking forum users. I think that's only fair - they already have the HUGE advantage of being able to discuss without having to translate all the time.
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Old July 28th, 2010, 01:00 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Interesting is to figure out why some countries add one number for the entire exit (or junction if you will) and others for every off-ramp (or slip road if you will).

As far as I know, all European countries just give one number to the entire thing, but it seems to be common that each separate off-ramp is given an A/B/C etc suffix in the United States. I prefer the European way though. Suffixes make it unnecessary complicated, signage should be clear enough.
Actually, I think it adds to the clarity when ramps are not part the same exit such as at a cloverleaf.
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 11:49 PM   #79
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Having been to SoCal a few times, the exit signs are quite confusing, especially since highways have colloquial and official names which change at different times. The following was something I quickly came up with as a result (for some reason Inkscape wouldn't let me make the left four arrows white).

image hosted on flickr
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Old August 13th, 2010, 10:00 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by geoking66 View Post
Having been to SoCal a few times, the exit signs are quite confusing, especially since highways have colloquial and official names which change at different times. The following was something I quickly came up with as a result (for some reason Inkscape wouldn't let me make the left four arrows white).

image hosted on flickr
While that is not typical signage in California (or anywhere in the US for that matter), it's not bad. In California, there are separate shield specs for use on guide signs and as route markers (reassurance shields). The ones you are using are route marker shields. Also, the I-405 exit from US 101 has only a single exit number, 19A, even though the ramp splits after leaving the mainline.

Working off of your version, here's mine...


The actual exit signs for the 101-405 interchange kind of look like this...


And when this sign is replaced with a newer reflective sign that contain exit numbers it might look like this...
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