Who should host the 2023 Rugby World Cup?

[JimB]

Originally Posted by likasz

Argentina, or Italy.

But I think that rugby union will be dead after OG 2016.


Rugby7s is coming!

Rugby 7's will never take over from the 15 man game. It's been around for over 120 years and it's still nothing more than an amusing, occasional alternative to proper rugby union.

This isn't like Test cricket and T20 cricket. T20 caught the public imagination because the the five day game is just too much for most people. The action is too slow for all but the connoisseur. Even one day games are too much for many people. T20 is perfect at about two hours.

You don't get the same issues with 15 man rugby. It lasts for 80 minutes and it is packed full of action. Shortening the game will lessen the drama - not increase it.

Rugby 7's games only last 15 minutes. They therefore only work as part of a tournament. They can't stand alone. You won't get people flocking from all over the country to watch, for instance, England play New Zealand for 15 minutes of rugby 7's at Twickenham. It wouldn't be worth the hassle.

Rugby 7's is also a bit samey. No proper scrums or lineouts. No classic forward play. Just chucking the ball from side to side and then running for the try line once the opposition are too knackered to tackle. Sure, teams score lots of tries. But, like basketball, when there are so many scoring efforts, they lose their impact and ability to thrill. It's too easy to score a try in rugby 7's.

It's an amusing diversion, certainly, and will work well at the Olympics.

But it lacks the substance of the main course that is proper rugby union.

[JimB]

Originally Posted by flierfy

And due to the elitist nature of the game they quite likely never will.

In what way is the game elitist?

If the likes of Romania, Spain, Russia and Georgia can all have rugby teams with aspirations to qualify for the World Cup, I see no good reason why Germany can't too.

[Walbanger]

Originally Posted by JimB

In what way is the game elitist?

If the likes of Romania, Spain, Russia and Georgia can all have rugby teams with aspirations to qualify for the World Cup, I see no good reason why Germany can't too.

Well said, and who said anyone has to buy into that old elitist crap?
Its a bloody good game which has far too much merit to be know merely as a Private School / Upper class game. That been said Rugby League is great as well. Golf, Squash, Rowing etc can also be looked at as elitist but the reality is they are wholesome recreational pursuits for anyone.

As for rugby in Germany, would it be right to consider the American military influence with fostering American Football in Germany?
Does American football hold the "Colision Sport" niche in Germany that Rugby has in the UK, Ireland, Italy and France?

[Archbishop]

USA! Haha.

[Walbanger]

Originally Posted by Archbishop

USA! Haha.

Wouldn't mind seeing that. Venues aren't as clear cut as it seems though because of the larger Rugby dimensions and typical high fenced frontrows of American Football stadiums which would mess up the sightlines even if you could squeeze a rugby field in.

I can't think of one NFL stadium that would fit an uncompromised Rugby field (68m / 100m + 2x 11m deep ingoal areas). The fact that Old Trafford will host games in the 2015 RWC says that the IRB is willing to be flexible. Field width is also up to compromise, under the IRB rules a field can by under the proper 68m / 70m if it has been agreed to by both teams before hand. Australia has taken issue with Scotland and Argentina in the past for preparing a 65m wide field without notifying to the Australians in an attempt to limit the effect of the Australian outside backs.

So when considering the Old Traffort precedent, given full notice and agreement, I can't see why the IRB wouldn't let RWC matches played on a pitch (65m / 100m + 2x 8m ingoal areas). That should make a few more venues available. Legion Field and Rentschler Field are the only stadiums I can think of off the top of my head where a proper Rugby Union field can fit.

I'd imagine the use of 8 college football or MLB stadiums (if they can fit) of the 40 000 to 50 000 range. Plus 2 or 3 60 000+ College or NFL stadiums. As for where, I'd say keep it in the North East, California and Colorado where there is some what of a rugby community. Can't imagine the South being interested but I'd love to be proven wrong. I have no idea about the midwest.

Alternatively a Canadian RWC could use the CFL stadiums.

[CharlieP]

Originally Posted by Walbanger

As for where, I'd say keep it in the North East, California and Colorado where there is some what of a rugby community. Can't imagine the South being interested but I'd love to be proven wrong.

San Francisco has hosted plenty of Tests in the past. San Diego and Las Vegas have hosted the IRB Sevens. Houston hosted a USA v South Africa Test in 2001 that was very well attended.

[Archbishop]

Originally Posted by Walbanger

Wouldn't mind seeing that. Venues aren't as clear cut as it seems though because of the larger Rugby dimensions and typical high fenced frontrows of American Football stadiums which would mess up the sightlines even if you could squeeze a rugby field in.

I can't think of one NFL stadium that would fit an uncompromised Rugby field (68m / 100m + 2x 11m deep ingoal areas). The fact that Old Trafford will host games in the 2015 RWC says that the IRB is willing to be flexible. Field width is also up to compromise, under the IRB rules a field can by under the proper 68m / 70m if it has been agreed to by both teams before hand. Australia has taken issue with Scotland and Argentina in the past for preparing a 65m wide field without notifying to the Australians in an attempt to limit the effect of the Australian outside backs.

So when considering the Old Traffort precedent, given full notice and agreement, I can't see why the IRB wouldn't let RWC matches played on a pitch (65m / 100m + 2x 8m ingoal areas). That should make a few more venues available. Legion Field and Rentschler Field are the only stadiums I can think of off the top of my head where a proper Rugby Union field can fit.

I'd imagine the use of 8 college football or MLB stadiums (if they can fit) of the 40 000 to 50 000 range. Plus 2 or 3 60 000+ College or NFL stadiums. As for where, I'd say keep it in the North East, California and Colorado where there is some what of a rugby community. Can't imagine the South being interested but I'd love to be proven wrong. I have no idea about the midwest.

Alternatively a Canadian RWC could use the CFL stadiums.

I'd think that Chicago would be the best place in the Midwest. Besides that Denver and SLC and Philadelphia and cities like those would be the best.

[crazyalex]

Spain and Germany host RWC lol

Thank for laugh

[Walbanger]

Originally Posted by CharlieP

San Francisco has hosted plenty of Tests in the past. San Diego and Las Vegas have hosted the IRB Sevens. Houston hosted a USA v South Africa Test in 2001 that was very well attended.

Yeah, pretty cool. Do you know where it was played?

[CharlieP]

Originally Posted by Walbanger

Yeah, pretty cool. Do you know where it was played?

Robertson Stadium, 1 December 2001.

[flierfy]

Originally Posted by JimB

In what way is the game elitist?

The world's best teams are well kept away from those down the ranks and play virtually only themself. Finishing third in your World Cup group is enough to re-qualify for the next World Cup finals. Not to mention the closed shops of the Tri- and Six-Nationes.

Compare that to football where even the ruling World Champion has to enter the qualifying stage with games against the likes of San Marino.

[Walbanger]

Originally Posted by flierfy

The world's best teams are well kept away from those down the ranks and play virtually only themself. Finishing third in your World Cup group is enough to re-qualify for the next World Cup finals. Not to mention the closed shops of the Tri- and Six-Nationes.

Compare that to football where even the ruling World Champion has to enter the qualifying stage with games against the likes of San Marino.

What good are results such as Australia 142 Namibia 0?
It's not elitist, it's just the reality of keeping a competitive schedule.

The Tri Nations is a made for television tournament by Murdoch. Inclusion of other countries has more to do with the interests of New Ltd then that of SANZAR. If it was totally up to the Unions, they would want to see a presence from the Pacific and Argentina. Argentina is now joining in 2012.

The 6 nations has spent years in getting Italy up to level, Romania has fallen behind since its more competitve days when Ceauşescu was around. So after Italy, where to they go?

...and what to do with Japan, Canada, the US and even Russia.

[Archbishop]

Originally Posted by Archbishop

I'd think that Chicago would be the best place in the Midwest. Besides that Denver and SLC and Philadelphia and cities like those would be the best.

I was thinking about this and something like

New York: Red Bull Arena
Chicago: Soldier Field or Toyota Park
Boston: Gillette Stadium
Denver: Invesco Field
San Diego: Qualcomm/New Chargers Stadium
San Francisco Bay Area: Stanford Stadium or new 49ers Stadium
Salt Lake City: Rice-Eccles Stadium
Las Vegas: Sam Boyd Stadium
Houston: Reliant Stadium
Columbus: Crew Stadium
Los Angeles: Home Depot Center
Seattle: Qwest Field

Would be a good group. The final would be best in San Francisco IMO.

[LiamO]

There are numerous options.

IRB also like to think what it will do for the game in general. So make sure we take note of that when considering.

South Africa
We could go to South Africa were it would be financially viable, and it has some great stadiums that could be utilized. However I don't think it would do much for the game over here. Rugby is pretty big as it is. Lots of $$$ could be made.

- Nelson Mandella Stadium
- Cape Town Stadium
- Soccer City
- Ellis Park
- Moses Mhadiba Stadium
- Vodacom Park
- Loftus Versfeld
- Mbombela Stadium
- Rustenburg

Pretty much the same venues for the 2010 FIFA WC.

Australia
There is Australia where it could do wonders for the game again. If Australia pull there neck in Rugby and start winning games, taking games to places like Adelaide, Western Sydney and the Gold Coast would do absolute wonders for Rugby, and a RWC would open up those areas. A revamped Adelaide Oval, a Rectangular ANZ Stadium (I like most of Western Sydney am hopeful this occurs). I think if Australia do not win the rights to the FIFA WC in 2022, the Government will assist the ARU in funding for it. If 2022 is secured for the Aussies they will save their bid for the RWC until 2027. I think it would have to be combined with NZ though. But only a few of NZ stadiums will and should be used as it is not financially viable. By then NZ's stadiums would have had to still be upgraded.

Stadiums which could be used for an Aussie & NZ Bid.

- SFS (Upgraded hopefully, it will be very old by 2023)
- ANZ Stadium (It should be rectanguarlised by then surely)
- Suncorp Stadium
- MCG (Needs to be bigger than MRS, possibly Eithiad, but I hear it's a shit stadium for Rugby especially the surface)
- Adelaide Oval
- Subiaco Oval (Perth's stadium is shit though, hopefully they build a new one by then)
- Newcastle Stadium/ Townsville/ Gold Coast (2 of those 3)
- Canberra Stadium

NZ with 4 venues
- New Dunedin Stadium
- Auckland Stadium (As shit as it is to host a RWC Final)
- Wellington Stadium
- Christchurch Stadium

It needs to be financially viable so NZ cannot have many venues and understandably.

Italy
I still think Italy should have won rights for 2019, and NZ should have never got anywhere near hosting this thing. With Japan hosting 2011 and England 2015.

Italy have some fantastic stadia and they should be valued. Not to mention it is very close to other European Rugby countries who would happily come over for a match or two and it would be great. It would also do great for Rugby in their country. If it was held earlier it could have been a great success. But I think they should be a contender and definetely deserve it.

Argentina
Would do a great job for Rugby in their country. They responded well to the Argentina U/20 JWC with some great attendance figures. They probably need to make a few improvements on Stadiums, if they were ever a chance to win rights to FIFA WC, FIFA would want to see a event like this to show that they have the muscle to cater for it. IRB will see what a positive impact it could have on Rugby in Argentina and in South America for that matter.

Canada and US Bid
Not viable for 2023. Hopefully 2027 they produce a bid. Joint or just Canada it would make for a fantastic RWC. Would do great for Rugby in Canada, in the US, I'm still not sold on that. The 1994 FIFA WC, didn't do much for Soccer.

[1772]

How would the US do?
Imagine the world cup be played at NFL stadias.

[Archbishop]

Originally Posted by LiamO

in the US, I'm still not sold on that. The 1994 FIFA WC, didn't do much for Soccer.

Besides create a domestic league that's still running today. Yep, besides that nothing.

[Harry1990]

you could argue the same elitist crap in football. the same 8-10 teams progress to the later stages of the football world cup.

and probably about 30-35 teams have a realistic shot of qualifing for the football wc, you never see india or togo or luxembourg etc at the FCW do you.

i mentioned germang, spain etc as they are near the big 6 european nations, which bring a lot of fans, the flights and other travel options would not be overly expensive so i reckon a lot of fans would come. they have good infrastructure and the game would be spread around to different places.

[CharlieP]

In 6 Rugby World Cups there have been:

4 different winners (with no champion team ever retaining the Cup)
5 different finalists
8 different semi-finalists
12 different quarter-finalists

Hardly the repetitive closed shop people make it out to be.

[Bobby3]

In regards to a US bid: Boston, New York, Washington, Charlotte, Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, Denver, Seattle, San Francisco, and San Diego currently support top level teams here.

I think that should be taken into account, given that those cities (and Berkeley) are the backbone of the small rugby union community here.

[crazyalex]

[del]