Who should host the 2023 Rugby World Cup?

[IHaveNoLegs]

Originally Posted by LiamO

If 2022 is secured for the Aussies they will save their bid for the RWC until 2027. I think it would have to be combined with NZ though.

What makes you say that?
I would have thought a country backing itself to be the sole host of a FIFA World Cup would have no problems hosting the Rugby World Cup on its own.

[LiamO]

Originally Posted by IHaveNoLegs

What makes you say that?
I would have thought a country backing itself to be the sole host of a FIFA World Cup would have no problems hosting the Rugby World Cup on its own.

We could easily host it solely. But I think NZ will want a bit of it, as I can't see NZ ever hosting a sporting event like this ever again. Hence why NZ might want a piece of it. Maybe the IRB wouldn't allow that to happen though. They are hesitant of it happening with Japan 2019 and having Honkers have some games.

[Andre_idol]

Originally Posted by SharksBoy

After 2010 FIFA World cup success so SA can host 2023 World cup with reuse of our stadium

This.

[crazydude]

I think that SA could easily do it, but the IRB may give it to Argentina to grow the game. Hopefully it doesn't go back to Europe in 2023 though.

An SA bid would likely have the 10 2010 WC stadiums, plus a few other smaller ones. The stadiums are listed at their current capacities, but Moses Mabhida and Cape Town Stadium can be easily expanded as they were for the FIFA World Cup.

High likely:

Joburg
Soccer City 94 700 (final, and likely opening game)
Ellis Park 61 000 (possible semi final)

Durban
Moses Mabhida Stadium 54 000 (possible semi final)

Cape Town
Cape Town Stadium 55 000 (possible opening game and semi)

Port Elizabeth
Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium 44 000 (possible quarter)

Pretoria (maybe Twshane by then)
Loftus Versfeld 50 000 (possible quater)


Likely:

Rustenburg (technically Phokeng)
Royal Bafokeng Stadium 42 000

Bloemfontein
Free State Stadium 40 000

Nelspruit
Mbombela Stadium 40 000

Possible:

Joburg
Orlando Stadium 40 000

Cape Town
Newlands 52 000 (if it still exists by then)

Durban
Kings Park 55 000

Polokwane
Peter Mokaba Stadium 42 000

Rustenburg
Olympia Park 30 000

East London
Buffalo City Stadium 16 000

George
Outeniqua Park 10 000

Stellenbosh
Danie Craven Stadium 16 000

Kimberly
Hoffe Park Stadium 18 000

I added some of the smaller venues, as rugby world cups are normally more spread out than soccer world cups. Also, the attendances normally vary more, and the fields take way more damage, thus fewer matches per stadium.

[lwa]

2023 will very much depend on wether Japan is looking to be a comercial success at the time the decision is made - thats the reason England are getting 2015 (well, one of the reasons) since they are a banker after the disaster that is 2011. (im sure 2011 will be a great tournament in a great country, but many of the venues are too small. Only 2 over 30k FFS!)

If Japan is shaping up to be a financial mess like NZ, then I can't see 2023 being anywhere other than South Africa (although a joint bid from any/all of Scotland/Wales/Ireland might be considered - I reckon Scotland and Ireland could lay on a good tournament, but not sure there would be the public support to make the scottish half a roaring success. would love to be proved wrong)

If however Japan is going to be a success story, then I suspect the IRB will be keen to take the tournament to other 'non-traditional' nations. That being the case, take your pick from Argentina or Italy. Truth be told, I would be delighted with either, although not sure I could afford Argentina just 4 years after Japan. (I know, that last bit is just selfish )

[Mo Rush]

South Africa or USA.

[IHaveNoLegs]

Originally Posted by lwa

2023 will very much depend on wether Japan is looking to be a comercial success at the time the decision is made - thats the reason England are getting 2015 (well, one of the reasons) since they are a banker after the disaster that is 2011. (im sure 2011 will be a great tournament in a great country, but many of the venues are too small. Only 2 over 30k FFS!)

7 not 2

[crazydude]

Originally Posted by IHaveNoLegs

7 not 2

Eden Park, Lancaster Park, Westpac Stadium and Rotorua International Stadium, will be over 30 000. Waikato Stadium, North Harbour, and Forsyth Bar Stadium/Carisbrook (that's quite a mess up there), will all likely be under 30 000 due to press seating, hospitalty areas, and covered seats due to poor sightlines.

[lwa]

Originally Posted by IHaveNoLegs

7 not 2

OK, some of the grounds are slightly bigger than I first thought - so let me rephrase that: only 2 ground over 40k (and one only just at 45k)

Compare that to France, which used:

Stade de France (80k)
Millenium Stadium ( 73.5K)
Murrayfield (67k)
Stade de Veledrome (59k)
Parc Des Princes (47.8K)
Stade Felix Bollaert (41.k)
Stade de Gerland (41k)

All bigger than the 3rd biggest venue in New Zealand (5 of them bigger than the 2nd biggest in New Zealand, and 3 bigger than the biggest in NZ)

Add to that that the smallest venue used in France was 34k, compared to 9 grounds that are smaller in NZ (indeed, only 4 venues in NZ are bigger than the Stade de la Mosson), and that venues were packed for pretty much every game in france, and its very easy to why RWC 2011 is shaping up to be a financial disaster.

Dont get me wrong, I am sure New Zealand will put on a great show, and will make for a memorable time for all who visit the country (I am gutted I can't find the time to - as I type this I have the brochure beside my PC and am seriously jealous of my mates who have booked up )

But when the dust settles, the figures will not make for good reading for the IRB, and hence they decided not to risk taking the 2015 tournament to Japan (and it is a risk - in my opinion, it is a risk worth taking, but it is still a risk)

England however is a virtually garunteed financial success - or as close as you can get in this sport.

[Alx-D]

What are the stadium requirements for a RWC? I know a rugby field will fit easily within any CFL stadium, but how many stadiums of what capacity would be required? We are starting to build new or renovated stadiums across the country, and a RWC would be a good way to help pay for them.

[Weebie]

Yeah New Zealand hosting this thing is a waste of time and clearly the country is struggling to host anything similar to What Australia did in 2003 and France did in 2007. considering the tv rights, location and attendance this is a huge step back and Japan should of had it this time around.

Italy or USA shoulf get it

[crazydude]

Originally Posted by Alx-D

What are the stadium requirements for a RWC? I know a rugby field will fit easily within any CFL stadium, but how many stadiums of what capacity would be required? We are starting to build new or renovated stadiums across the country, and a RWC would be a good way to help pay for them.

How big are CFL fields? I ask as NFL fields are normally too small for rugby. A rugby field needs to be 100m by 70m, with 2 'in goal areas' (I think they call them end zones in the US and Canada) of about 10m to 20m. The IRB seem to be quite flexible though, especially with the in goal areas, as some of the English football stadiums will struggle to fit the fields.

As for the stadium sizes, I don't think the IRB are too strict, nothing like FIFA. Probably something like 10 to 15 stadiums, at least 30 000 seats, and a 60 000 seater for the semis and final.

[lwa]

Originally Posted by crazydude

How big are CFL fields? I ask as NFL fields are normally too small for rugby. A rugby field needs to be 100m by 70m, with 2 'in goal areas' (I think they call them end zones in the US and Canada) of about 10m to 20m. The IRB seem to be quite flexible though, especially with the in goal areas, as some of the English football stadiums will struggle to fit the fields.

As for the stadium sizes, I don't think the IRB are too strict, nothing like FIFA. Probably something like 10 to 15 stadiums, at least 30 000 seats, and a 60 000 seater for the semis and final.

most of the NZ stadiums are in the range 20,000-30,000 - dont think the IRB actually have any form of guidance on the matter though... so long as the stadiums are of what they deem a 'reasonable size'. In a country with the facilities/population of Canada, they may want something slightly larger than 60k for the final? I doubt they would any bother filling it for the final, since Canada is relativley easy to get to/find accomodation in ect.

They are however slightly stricter on the field size when it comes to RWC's - technically, there are no minimum dimensions for a rugby pitch (except for the ingoals), just maximums. (in reality, I think there is a lower limit for international competitions) However, in France atleast, the IRB wanted every pitch to be of identical size (otherwise the choice of venue may be to team A's advantage/disadvantage). I know this was enforced, since I sat behind the posts at Murrayfield wondering why the pitch was about 10 metres further away than it normally is - the pitch at Murrayfield is the biggest you can get at 70mX144m including the in-goal areas, but was reduced to (I think) 68mX120m for the RWC. They dont require any particular dimensions, only that all venues have the same dimensions.

[Alx-D]

A Canadian football field is much larger than an American field. Ours are 65x150 yards (110 yard field plus two 20 yard end zones). That is roughly 60x137m, and there is enough space on the sidelines to accommodate a 68m wide FIFA pitch. We could easily go 68x130m (15m end zones) without any stadium modification.

Useable Canadian stadiums would be:

Stadé Olympique, Montréal- 66,300*
BC Place, Vancouver- 60,000
Commonwealth Stadium, Edmonton- 60,000
SkyDome, Toronto- 52,200
Proposed Rough Riders Stadium- 35,000-50,000**
Blue Bombers Stadium- 40,000**
McMahon Stadium, Calgary- 46,000*
Pan Am Stadium, Hamilton- 25,000-35,000**
Frank Clair Stadium, Ottawa- 25,000+
Percival Molson Stadium, Montreal- 25,000
PEPS Stadium, Quebec City- 10,200, would need an expansion for CFL or RWC

*Capacity listed with Grey Cup temporary seating
**Currently proposed stadiums

[Alx-D]

*edit-double posted for some reason

[crazydude]

Originally Posted by Alx-D

A Canadian football field is much larger than an American field. Ours are 65x150 yards (110 yard field plus two 20 yard end zones). That is roughly 60x137m, and there is enough space on the sidelines to accommodate a 68m wide FIFA pitch. We could easily go 68x130m (15m end zones) without any stadium modification.

Useable Canadian stadiums would be:

Stadé Olympique, Montréal- 66,300*
BC Place, Vancouver- 60,000
Commonwealth Stadium, Edmonton- 60,000
SkyDome, Toronto- 52,200
Proposed Rough Riders Stadium- 35,000-50,000**
Blue Bombers Stadium- 40,000**
McMahon Stadium, Calgary- 46,000*
Pan Am Stadium, Hamilton- 25,000-35,000**
Frank Clair Stadium, Ottawa- 25,000+
Percival Molson Stadium, Montreal- 25,000
PEPS Stadium, Quebec City- 10,200, would need an expansion for CFL or RWC

*Capacity listed with Grey Cup temporary seating
**Currently proposed stadiums

Thanks for the info on CFL fields, but I still think that 2023 will go to a 'safe option'. 2019 in Japan is about growing the game, so for 2023 I expect the IRB will want the WC back in traditional rugby playing country. Excluding England and NZ, that would leave Australia (2003 hosts), France (2007) , a Ireland/Scotland/Wales bid (have been part hosts before) and South Africa (1995). The only other option I can think of would be Argentina.

[T74]

Originally Posted by crazydude

Thanks for the info on CFL fields, but I still think that 2023 will go to a 'safe option'. 2019 in Japan is about growing the game, so for 2023 I expect the IRB will want the WC back in traditional rugby playing country. Excluding England and NZ, that would leave Australia (2003 hosts), France (2007) , a Ireland/Scotland/Wales bid (have been part hosts before) and South Africa (1995). The only other option I can think of would be Argentina.

good points - makes SA look like the likely candidate

[lwa]

Originally Posted by crazydude

Thanks for the info on CFL fields, but I still think that 2023 will go to a 'safe option'. 2019 in Japan is about growing the game, so for 2023 I expect the IRB will want the WC back in traditional rugby playing country. Excluding England and NZ, that would leave Australia (2003 hosts), France (2007) , a Ireland/Scotland/Wales bid (have been part hosts before) and South Africa (1995). The only other option I can think of would be Argentina.

Would quite like to see a joint bid between Ireland an Scotland if that is the case (a real joint bid - 2 pools in Ireland, 2 pools in Scotland ect.). Neither country has ever done more than a bit-part, hosting a couple of games of someone elses tournament. I also feel culturally Scotland and Ireland are far closer than either are with Wales - so in my opinion would be the obvious ones to link up (and they have in the past, bidding for Euro 2008)

Could easilly host the tournament between them (not sure about Ireland, but Scotland doesn't quite have the infrastructre to go it alone), using something like.

Scotland (some of):
Murrayfield (67,800)
Parkhead (60,832)
Hampden (52,103)
Ibrox (51,082)
Aberdeen Arena (planning application lodged today - 21,000)
Easter Road (20,250)
Rugby Park (~18,000)
Tannadice/Dens Park/McDiarmid Park (15,000/11,000/12,000) Realistically, with so and proximity, only one would be used

Ireland (only using venues that have held rugby in the past):
Croke park (83,000)
Aviva Stadium (51,700)
Thomond Park (27,000)
Musgrave Park (8,000 today, but plans to extend to 20,000)
Royal Dublin Society (20,000)
Ravenhill (officially 10,000, but has held 20,000 in the past and probably could again)

If Croke Park is available, then that is the obvious choice for the final - if not then Murrayfield would still be big enough.

If you add in a couple of the GAA venues (pairc na nGael in Limerick, Casement Park...) or a new NI stadium, then you easilly have enough grounds to host it and most are already there (only Aberdeen in Scotland - planning application pending, but there is always Pittodrie there anyway - is not built yet, while of the Irish ones Ravenhill is under development - well, stage one is finished, stage 2 on hold - and Musgrave Park will probably follow suite in the next few years)

Host a pool in Glasgow/Kilmarnock, a pool in Edinburgh/Dundee/Aberdeen, a pool in Belfast/Dublin and a pool in Dublin/Cork/Limerick, Quarters in Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dublin and Limerick (if Pairc na Gael is used), semi's in Edinburgh and Dublin, 3/4 PO in Glasgow and Final in Dublin. Could be a cracking tournament...



I would also add (assuming we are going for a safe option) Italy's name into the ring - close enough to the European heavyweights that you are garunteed large travelling support, is already a really popular destination in the 6 Nations calendar among supporters and has plenty of (albeit in need of attention) grounds in place.

[Martin Ferraro]

Argentina!!!
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=18323447696

Buenos Aires
River: 55000


Independiente (en construcción): 45000


Velez: 36000



La Plata
Único (en construcción): 45000


Córdoba
Chateau (en construcción): 55000


Santa Fe
Colón (en construcción): 40000


Rosario
Central (proyecto): 55000


Mendoza
Mundialista: 35000


Mar del Plata
Mundialista: 35000


San Juan
Bicentenario (en construcción): 25000

[Kazurro]

Originally Posted by JimB

In what way is the game elitist?

If the likes of Romania, Spain, Russia and Georgia can all have rugby teams with aspirations to qualify for the World Cup, I see no good reason why Germany can't too.

Spain qualified for 1999 RWC. But nowadays we're very far in terms of quality of these NT's. In the RWC qualifying we got 2 wins and 8 losts, and the 2 wins were versus Germany.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Ru..._qualification

And our level keeps declining as we dont have a profesional league. Only a National Championship where most players earn less than 200 euros a moth.

And organising a RWC? We're very far from it.