FORT WORTH - Amon G. Carter Stadium (45,000)

[JJG]

Originally Posted by Professor L Gee

Geographically, it made the least amount of sense. But if they have the travel budget to fly out there at least twice a season, hey, they got it.

I wouldn't have expected the SEC to make a play for TCU, anyway. They seem like the type to poach a team already in a BCS conference, not a mid-major.


No, I agree, the BCS is a closed system and no other college will be getting in anytime soon. I'm just saying that they would have gained a status closer to that of the BCS schools than remaining lumped in with the Sun Belt.

TCU, Boise, and Nevada would have been a good core of teams to elevate the conference reputation though. What other mid-majors have three strong teams like that?

Fort Worth is in the (south) central part of the U.S., pretty much right in the the middle. TCU's gonna travel nearly the exact same distance, so it really won't matter. If you ask me, it makes more since for the Frogs to be in the Big East than the Mountain West.... where are the mountains in DFW?

I'd rather TCU be in the BE anyway, since I hate having to stay up until 11 just to watch a game.

[Professor L Gee]

Originally Posted by JJG

Fort Worth is in the (south) central part of the U.S., pretty much right in the the middle. TCU's gonna travel nearly the exact same distance, so it really won't matter. If you ask me, it makes more since for the Frogs to be in the Big East than the Mountain West.... where are the mountains in DFW?

I'd rather TCU be in the BE anyway, since I hate having to stay up until 11 just to watch a game.

Well, I guess if they can keep Louisiana Tech in the WAC (what's western about it?), then TCU can be in the Big East. Conferences have all but stopped making sense anyway, what with the loss of ability to count and all...

Also, I didn't see that you live in Fort Worth. Central Time and all that.

[Sonrise]

Originally Posted by JJG

The SEC, Pac-10, and Big XII (especially) weren't knocking on their door. So it was either the Big East or stay in a conference that's really not going anywhere....

If they, Utah and BYU had stayed in the MWC, along with the addition of Boise and the rebirth of SDSU, the MWC could very well have become a bcs conference.

A top 6 of
Boise
BYU
Utah
TCU
AFA
SDSU

is better than the top 6 in either the Big Least or the ACC.

[GunnerJacket]

Originally Posted by Professor L Gee

Well, I guess if they can keep Louisiana Tech in the WAC (what's western about it?), then TCU can be in the Big East. Conferences have all but stopped making sense anyway, what with the loss of ability to count and all...

The conferences make sense, per se, but it's not based wholly on geography. A large part of it is the nature of the academic mission of each school and their national market presense. All of the BCS AQ members are land-grant universities or State flagships, prestigious private universities or select, research oriented urban universities. None are historic normals or institutions that could be considered "middling" academically. I'm convinced this an intentional aspect on the part of those schools as a means to protect their hold on top tier athletics (and the $ that comes with it) for only similar institutions. Put another way, the likes of Michigan, Texas and USC don't want to be competing with the likes of Northern Arizona or Arkansas State for recruits knowing that the latter schools have much easier academics for prospective athletes. If you're a likely NFL star, why go to a school that's more academically rigorous than you need, right?

There's more to it, of course, and many of these associations have been born for academic reasons, like the Big Ten's CIC or the ACC's research consortium, but the bottom line is the current BCS AQs are all academically comparable and they're finicky about who they'll call their equals. And as of right now, Boise St, North Texas, FIU and some others wanting in to the party are not likely to be invited.

Originally Posted by Sonrise

If they, Utah and BYU had stayed in the MWC, along with the addition of Boise and the rebirth of SDSU, the MWC could very well have become a bcs conference.

A top 6 of
Boise
BYU
Utah
TCU
AFA
SDSU

is better than the top 6 in either the Big Least or the ACC.

Those schools may win the occassional game against the conferences you mentioned but beyond the top 4 they currently lack the drawing power for major media contracts. TCU is popular because it's an enigma right now but it's not given they'll hold their appeal if stuck in the middle of a conference table for several years. After all, they're a small school. (Which is also why they'd bring near $0 value to a Big 12 that already has UT, TAMU, Baylor and TTU in that state).

If the potential was there to earn media revenues comparable to the BCS conferences I'm sure they would have seen that, even after Utah left. But it wasn't going to be close. Even if those schools warranted that much, the likes of Wyoming, UNLV and UNM brought down the average. Cue dominos.

The MWC will continue to be a solid mid-major conference, possibly moreso if the WAC fades into obscurity. Odds favor a realignment along the A/AA lines soon, anyway, and the PAC 12 will actually enjoy having a foil to play with in the western markets.

[KingmanIII]

Originally Posted by GunnerJacket

The conferences make sense, per se, but it's not based wholly on geography. A large part of it is the nature of the academic mission of each school and their national market presense. All of the BCS AQ members are land-grant universities or State flagships, prestigious private universities or select, research oriented urban universities. None are historic normals or institutions that could be considered "middling" academically.

Arizona State
Oregon State
Washington State
Oklahoma State
Texas Tech
Florida State
South Florida
West Virginia
Ole Miss
Mississippi State
Alabama
Auburn
Louisiana State
South Carolina
Tennessee
etc.

might have something to say about that...but yeah in general you gotta have at least one big-time sport or charter membership to get a pass.

I'm convinced this an intentional aspect on the part of those schools as a means to protect their hold on top tier athletics (and the $ that comes with it) for only similar institutions. Put another way, the likes of Michigan, Texas and USC don't want to be competing with the likes of Northern Arizona or Arkansas State for recruits knowing that the latter schools have much easier academics for prospective athletes. If you're a likely NFL star, why go to a school that's more academically rigorous than you need, right?

That's pretty much the only reason SDSU will never get a Pac-1# invite -- what kind of prospect in their right mind wouldn't want to play for a BCS school with lax academic standards located in freaking SAN DIEGO?

[GunnerJacket]

Originally Posted by KingmanIII

might have something to say about that...but yeah in general you gotta have at least one big-time sport or charter membership to get a pass.

Believe me, I get what you're saying. Last I checked Bama wasn't even rated with the Centers for Measuring University Performance, and several of these institutions are AFAIK handcuffed by State-mandated general-admission requirements (meet the min and you're guaranteed entry). Perhaps the caveat is that land-grant flagships are given leeway regarding academics knowing they're still serving the same mission - Principal research university for the state system. Bottom line, the club is pretty defined and the odds of finding an FAU or North Texas approved as a peer are beyond slim because they'll always be a tier below the state flagships, and none of those schools want to share their perch.

That's pretty much the only reason SDSU will never get a Pac-1# invite -- what kind of prospect in their right mind wouldn't want to play for a BCS school with lax academic standards located in freaking SAN DIEGO?

There is truth to how the conferences are maximizing revenues, though, and the Pac 12 doesn't need another california school. It'd be like the old SWC that had so many schools in Texas, or the ACC with 4 teams in NC: At some point you've saturated the market as well as needed. ECU would love to be in the ACC, and they'd probably fair well given the chance and heaven knows their fans would come out in droves, but even they admit that marriage would only lower the per-school media revenues because it doesn't add anything to the ACC that it doesn't already have.

Similar case with TCU and the Big XII. The conference doesn't want to dilute the Texas recruiting base and media money any more than it has to, so it will strive to keep the likes of TCU (or, more importantly, large public schools like Houston and UTEP) under thumb as best as possible.

[JJG]

Funny how when ever TCU or Boise St. are brought up, the convo shifts to BCS/Mid-major conferences....

I've stated from the get go that I'd LOVE for the Frogs to go to the Big X(II), but it's just not happening. Too much bad blood and not alot to offer from TCU's end.


But getting back to the stadium, I belive there's enough room to add a thrid tier to the east side, which would put it right next to Frog Alley (the road posted on page 1). That is to say, when they start on the east side. I can already see the 2nd tier(s) connecting with the north end.

[dfwabel]

Originally Posted by JJG

Funny how when ever TCU or Boise St. are brought up, the convo shifts to BCS/Mid-major conferences....

I've stated from the get go that I'd LOVE for the Frogs to go to the Big X(II), but it's just not happening. Too much bad blood and not alot to offer from TCU's end.


But getting back to the stadium, I belive there's enough room to add a thrid tier to the east side, which would put it right next to Frog Alley (the road posted on page 1). That is to say, when they start on the east side. I can already see the 2nd tier(s) connecting with the north end.

A third tier could be built, but then the school would also have to build parking garages to accommodate those fans. Even in Texas, parking garages average $10,000/space to build and the majority of that cost in for concrete. There is not much to work with west of the stadium (neighborhood), east and south (campus and Greek housing).

[KingmanIII]

Originally Posted by GunnerJacket

Believe me, I get what you're saying. Last I checked Bama wasn't even rated with the Centers for Measuring University Performance, and several of these institutions are AFAIK handcuffed by State-mandated general-admission requirements (meet the min and you're guaranteed entry). Perhaps the caveat is that land-grant flagships are given leeway regarding academics knowing they're still serving the same mission - Principal research university for the state system. Bottom line, the club is pretty defined and the odds of finding an FAU or North Texas approved as a peer are beyond slim because they'll always be a tier below the state flagships, and none of those schools want to share their perch.

Not only that, but in the athletics realm, the old-money programs have built their reputations over the course of decades, some for well over a century -- in their eyes the johnny-come-latelies like the UAB's and FIU's haven't paid their dues and are just snatching crumbs off of a cake they didn't bake.

There is truth to how the conferences are maximizing revenues, though, and the Pac 12 doesn't need another california school. It'd be like the old SWC that had so many schools in Texas, or the ACC with 4 teams in NC: At some point you've saturated the market as well as needed. ECU would love to be in the ACC, and they'd probably fair well given the chance and heaven knows their fans would come out in droves, but even they admit that marriage would only lower the per-school media revenues because it doesn't add anything to the ACC that it doesn't already have.

This is why the Big East needs to seriously consider extending an invitation to ECU -- you establish a presence on your rival conference's stomping grounds plus you tap into the immense potential of a school with the fastest-growing enrollment in the state and an athletics program with a loyal, passionate fanbase and strong support across their region.

Similar case with TCU and the Big XII. The conference doesn't want to dilute the Texas recruiting base and media money any more than it has to, so it will strive to keep the likes of TCU (or, more importantly, large public schools like Houston and UTEP) under thumb as best as possible.

but if another AQ conference comes calling...

[GunnerJacket]

Originally Posted by KingmanIII

Not only that, but in the athletics realm, the old-money programs have built their reputations over the course of decades, some for well over a century -- in their eyes the johnny-come-latelies like the UAB's and FIU's haven't paid their dues and are just snatching crumbs off of a cake they didn't bake.

Indeed, hence the biggest case for the bowl system: "Fans only want to see the big brands." Or so they say.

In one repsect I get it, because half of what you're tuning in for is the passion of the fanbases and there's a mystique about watching two programs with 80-100k avg gates going head-to-head, even if they're both with .500 records. You're drawn by the uniform and end up missing the mediocre play.

This is why the Big East needs to seriously consider extending an invitation to ECU -- you establish a presence on your rival conference's stomping grounds plus you tap into the immense potential of a school with the fastest-growing enrollment in the state and an athletics program with a loyal, passionate fanbase and strong support across their region.

The question is whether or not the BE fans will buy it. ECU will love it but it may not appeal to fans in Syracuse or Pittsburgh. Especially if the conference sees only the new, southern teams succeeding in football then it might reinforce the mindset that the northeastern teams can't prosper in that sport. Or, more importantly, that won't lure more TV sets away from the Big Ten games, ND, SEC, etc.

I'm an ACC guy, but I'm from upstate NY so I'd love to see the BE prosper as a true northeastern conference. Wish BC had been left and Temple hadn't floundered as a partial member. USF just doesn't fit culturally, and ECU would be the same.

I do feel TCU will be a much better marriage, in part because it's a religious oriented private school and because it's support is narrow but deep - much like the AAA members that helped found the league. But personally I wish the BE could stay within in the NE and TCU could be part of a better incarnation of CUSA, if not in the Big XII.

-----

Back on topic, who's got recent photos?

[KingmanIII]

Back on topic, who's got recent photos?

Wes has you covered:
http://www.killerfrogs.com/msgboard/...owtopic=138218

[JJG]

Originally Posted by dfwabel

A third tier could be built, but then the school would also have to build parking garages to accommodate those fans. Even in Texas, parking garages average $10,000/space to build and the majority of that cost in for concrete. There is not much to work with west of the stadium (neighborhood), east and south (campus and Greek housing).

.... I don't know about that.... maybe. But the third tier for the east side probably wont come for at least another decade, after they get done renovating that side in 2013 (or sooner...). It'll be something to think about, since the campus is right in the middle of a neighborhood that could also be going through some changes as well. Hopefully, the commuter AND light rail plans go through by that time.


And it's funny how some of the guys on KillerFrogs are saying that it looks behind schedule. If anything, it's way beyond schedule if they're talking about having the ENTIRE project done by next year. Even one of the north scoreboards are taking shape.

[KingmanIII]

7/1 update:
http://gofrogs.cstv.com/view.gal?id=96907

[KingmanIII]

[img]http://i53.************/20jid91.jpg[/img]

[JJG]

Love it.

Still don't see how they're working the northern scorboards...

[KingmanIII]

Extensive update from killerfrogs.com member SKP's SkyDrive (need a MSN Live account to view, believe me it's worth it):

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=8196a...!866&sc=photos

[JJG]

New seating chart. Or should I say temporary....?

[KingmanIII]

July 19 construction update slideshow

[Chevy114]

Great Video Kingman, I like the blending of the old with the new as he said, but I find it funny that he compared it to camden yards. I hope they can fill the seats!

[JJG]

Originally Posted by Chevy114

Great Video Kingman, I like the blending of the old with the new as he said, but I find it funny that he compared it to camden yards. I hope they can fill the seats!

They're calling it that because of blending old with new. And judging TCU's home schedule this season, I doubt we'll see the same sell outs last year and the year before. The MWC Heavy Hitters (Utah and BYU) wont be there and TCU's playing BYU at Cowboys Stadium, and even Bosie St. was supposed to play at TCU, but the schedule was switched and created a controversy....