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Old May 17th, 2012, 04:50 PM   #2061
jconyc
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Originally Posted by erbse View Post
The main issue is that Manhattan never seems to learn its lesson, despite the city obviously regrets many of the urban planning lapses of former times.
Kind of beating a dead horse here...but this is New York...no place like it in the world...the construction destruction construction stories here are part of complex and beautiful fabric of the city.
some of the best architecture here is the result of singular entrepreneurial vision...and not the result of 'urban planning'..actually it seems as though when the bureaucracies get involved the system seems to beak down...to many cooks spoil the stew and believe me there are a lot of cooks in this town. Such great projects as the Highline was actually a grassroots project initiated and driven by individuals NOT the city

Again I will say...what about all the gorgeous Georgian, Gothic and Classical Mansions that were torn down to build midtown? Time marches on.

As far as the Drake goes...I walked by it everyday for 25 years..ate in its restaurants...etc etc...it was not such a great example of its era...it actually had a lousy street presence...there are many much finer building in the area to represent that era much better such as the Fuller Building...

Not that all of New York is done right...look at the WHOLE Area of Penn Station..something has GOT to be done..I hate MSG! Almost nothing is neutral in NYC..

But I love midtown..
432 is something special...like it or not...and I am excited about how it is going to change the skyline AND the streetscape on this block...I love the fact that they were able to site it precisely in the center of the block...it will be iconic.

This is my neighborhood...it is fascinating and the buildings....IBM, GM, Tiffanys, Trump Tower, Carnegie, MOMA, the Crown, Sony, Fuller, Sherry Netherland, The Plaza, 9 West, Squibb, Lever House, Seagrams, Bloomberg...and now One 57, Torre Verre, 432 and 225...and all bones of buildings on which these are built...I love this town!

OK climbing down off my soapbox...

When do you think they will pour the right side?...I say Monday or Tuesday

Last edited by jconyc; May 17th, 2012 at 05:05 PM.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 04:53 PM   #2062
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Originally Posted by RobertWalpole View Post
According to Vinoly, it's 19:1.
This is a recent conversation or past conversation? I know plans were to potentially build this 1700ft....19:1 would make this a 1700ft+ tower.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 04:53 PM   #2063
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The technology to build structures like 432 Park has been around for a long time.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 04:55 PM   #2064
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Originally Posted by DinoVabec View Post
**** logic..

You seriously think they would build it if it ain't safe?
More like.... **** Reading Comprehension Skills....

What part of "I am not an engineer and I know that what I say might not be of issue" you dont get?

I am simply talking about how the building "feels" according to my opinion. And that thin ass building aint making ME -ie valkyre, ie an individual, ie not the rest of the world- feel better about it...

It looks like a tower made out of LEGO, with 0 artistic feel and with horrbile proportions. You dig it? Cool bro, I simply dont. Just improve your reading comprehension and we are A OK.

Last edited by Valkyre; May 17th, 2012 at 05:02 PM.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 05:04 PM   #2065
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Originally Posted by Valkyre View Post
More like.... **** Reading Comprehension Skills....

What part of "I am not an engineer and I know that what I say might not be of issue" you dont get?

I am simply talking about how the building "feels" according to my opinion. And that thin ass building aint making ME -ie valkyre, ie an individual, ie not the rest of the world- feel better about it...

It looks like a tower made out of LEGO, with 0 artistic feel and with horrbile proportions. You dig it? Cool bro, I simply dont. Just improve your reading comprehension and we are A OK.
Thankfully the builders do not care about your input, however you are certainly entitled to feel that way. They know what they are doing, you do not in regards to engineering of this building...and the fact of the matter is people WILL want to live on the top floors and WILL pay huge amounts of money to do so.

Now back on topic
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Old May 17th, 2012, 05:08 PM   #2066
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Originally Posted by MrSlippery519 View Post
Thankfully the builders do not care about your input, however you are certainly entitled to feel that way. They know what they are doing, you do not in regards to engineering of this building...and the fact of the matter is people WILL want to live on the top floors and WILL pay huge amounts of money to do so.

Now back on topic
I would just like to hear your input in the following question if you dont mind doing so.

Would you prefer if the building stayed as it is in terms of design and yet it was a bit fatter to improve its proportions just a little bit or you like it as it is now?

All I am saying is that if I had the money I would prefer one57 or Beekman over this tower any day of the week. Even if they are not as tall as this one, at least they have style and character, a design like no other building in NY. This... is just way too "generic" design-wise for me.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 05:11 PM   #2067
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Originally Posted by Valkyre View Post
I would just like to hear your input in the following question if you dont mind doing so.

Would you prefer if the building stayed as it is in terms of design and yet it was a bit fatter to improve its proportions just a little bit or you like it as it is now?
Well since there has technically been no official render it's hard for me to judge that. There is not even a final height aside from some permits here and there. The only think we know for sure it the width of the building being 94x94 (a little less but close enough). If space permitted I would love to see a "fatter" building certainly. However I would have no issue seeing this rise to 1700ft either which was in the "plans"
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Old May 17th, 2012, 05:27 PM   #2068
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Generic? What other perfectly square box has been built taller than the original twin towers? A generic building would be 15 Penn plaza, there's nothing really special to the design. But this design definitely makes you look twice, ugly or not, so it's definitely not generic.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 05:29 PM   #2069
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Originally Posted by Valkyre View Post
Who in their right mind would love to have a residence there on the top floor... this building screams trouble if you ask me...

Yes I am not an engineer, so all of my concerns might be stupid, but still, this is not a building I would love to be on the top floor... I mean look at this.... it is just a stick....

Seriously was it so damn hard for the designers of this building to add some fat to it? It is ridiculous, both in how it looks and imho in how it will actually operate.

"oh look I got a condo at 1,400 feet... now I am checking the weather channel just to make sure it stays there"

And yes, again, I know little about engineering, but so do the rest of the people who are about to spend money to get an appartment over there...
The US isn't North Korea where they have no problems to prepare a supertall, made outta extremely weak concrete and exposed to the elements for nearly 2 decades, for occupation. In the US a building has to be strong and safe to be allowed to stand. Take the Ocean Tower in Texas for an example, it was razed because it was sinking and leaning

Btw, maybe Vinoly meant that that 28 meter building will have a 19:1 ratio, which would mean it could be up to 532 meters tall That would be awesome
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Old May 17th, 2012, 05:36 PM   #2070
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Generic? What other perfectly square box has been built taller than the original twin towers? A generic building would be 15 Penn plaza, there's nothing really special to the design. But this design definitely makes you look twice, ugly or not, so it's definitely not generic.
the only reason most people will look twice is not because it is a pretty building but because it is so thin and tall...

The Twins were massive, plus one complimented the other (if there was only one Tower it would look crappy) so there is no comparison, for me.

To me this is a generic designed building. This is not even a "design" per se according to my taste obviously. It is more like a "shape", it is just a square box. Again that is just my opinion, for example i would love if the building included those mid sections that looked like barrels. It made the design unique and moved away from that "thin tall box" look it has now.

In my opinion NY deserves much better and freshly designed supertalls, like one57 and tower Verre etc are.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 05:39 PM   #2071
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyre View Post
I would just like to hear your input in the following question if you dont mind doing so.

Would you prefer if the building stayed as it is in terms of design and yet it was a bit fatter to improve its proportions just a little bit or you like it as it is now?

All I am saying is that if I had the money I would prefer one57 or Beekman over this tower any day of the week. Even if they are not as tall as this one, at least they have style and character, a design like no other building in NY. This... is just way too "generic" design-wise for me.
The point of this building is to be thin and tall..Not beautiful..It's just like people..Some are meant to be good looking but not so smart..Some are meant to be smart but not so good looking..But they all deserve respect whether are smart or good looking..If you all gonna bash this building because it's not good looking than I guess you are one of those people who can't accept differences..Being different is good..And this building is more than good..
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Old May 17th, 2012, 05:43 PM   #2072
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I'm not saying it's a GOOD design, it's just not generic.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 05:47 PM   #2073
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertWalpole View Post
According to Vinoly, it's 19:1.
The 432 park avenue is 426 meters = 1398 feet but in this photoshop it is 420 meters.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 05:59 PM   #2074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DinoVabec View Post
The point of this building is to be thin and tall..Not beautiful..It's just like people..Some are meant to be good looking but not so smart..Some are meant to be smart but not so good looking..But they all deserve respect whether are smart or good looking..If you all gonna bash this building because it's not good looking than I guess you are one of those people who can't accept differences..Being different is good..And this building is more than good..
I 1000% agree with you. People who support other architectural styles should still respect that some people might find this building to be breathtakingly beautiful (which for me it is)

EDIT: With breathtakingly beautiful I meant engineering wise, not architecture wise. Sorry for the bad chosen words.
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Last edited by Kanto; May 17th, 2012 at 06:28 PM.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 06:08 PM   #2075
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Originally Posted by DinoVabec View Post
The point of this building is to be thin and tall..Not beautiful..It's just like people..Some are meant to be good looking but not so smart..Some are meant to be smart but not so good looking..But they all deserve respect whether are smart or good looking..If you all gonna bash this building because it's not good looking than I guess you are one of those people who can't accept differences..Being different is good..And this building is more than good..
It is like you are saying that if I go into New York, a place where most buildings are beautiful and elegant, the MECA of skyscrapers and design a skyscraper in the shape of a giant turd, that it deserves to be there, because it doesnt have to look pretty and because ugly buildings also have a place...( I know I am exagerating but I just want to make a point)

I can understand what you are trying to say, but I dont think it is the same to compare an externally "ugly" human being with an ugly building? Humans have something called a personality and goes beyond their external appearance. A building is just that... a building. It will stand there and will always be part of the skyline. It wont suddenly "leave" move away from your perspective and you cannot choose to ignore it when looking at the skyline.

By the way, all I did was to say that New York, in my opinion deserves better designed buildings. It is not that I consider this building the ugliest thing ever, it is that I consider it uninspiring and I wouldnt want New York's tallest building to be this one. Not when there are marvelous buildings out there with amazing design. This looks... "cheap" at least for me.

Last edited by Valkyre; May 17th, 2012 at 06:16 PM.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 06:14 PM   #2076
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I 1000% agree with you. People who support other architectural styles should still respect that some people might find this building to be breathtakingly beautiful (which for me it is)
Please explain to me which part of my post shows disrespect to the people who like this building. I just posted my opinion on it.

For a person who always craves and talks about the importance of opinion, you certainly seem to either not respect my own opinion or change the meaning of my words entirely and imply things I never actually said.

Again, what I said in each and every post of mine, is just my opinion. In fact in my 2nd post after dinovasec's reply I told him that it is perfectly cool that he likes this building. I dont care, I dont mind, it is perfectly fine with me.

Please read more carefully. In no way did I show disrespect to anyone's opinion and taste here.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 06:18 PM   #2077
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Not everybody might find this building beautiful, but I think everybody needs to respect the engineering masterpiece which it will take to build such a thin building so tall with meeting high quality standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyre View Post
Please explain to me which part of my post shows disrespect to the people who like this building. I just posted my opinion on it.

For a person who always craves and talks about the importance of opinion, you certainly seem to either not respect my own opinion or change the meaning of my words entirely and imply things I never actually said.

Again, what I said in each and every post of mine, is just my opinion. In fact in my 2nd post after dinovasec's reply I told him that it is perfectly cool that he likes this building. I dont care, I dont mind, it is perfectly fine with me.

Please read more carefully. In no way did I show disrespect to anyone's opinion and taste here.
Oops, my problem, I have chosen bad words. I was talking about architecture in another thread and kinda mixed the posts I was posting. I deeply apologize for it. What I meant was respecting its engineering. That I think everybody should, as I stated earlier in this post. I understand that you might not like the architecture of the building and you have a right for it. Again, my apologies for typing the wrong word
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Last edited by Kanto; May 17th, 2012 at 06:23 PM.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 06:18 PM   #2078
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Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
Generic? What other perfectly square box has been built taller than the original twin towers? A generic building would be 15 Penn plaza, there's nothing really special to the design. But this design definitely makes you look twice, ugly or not, so it's definitely not generic.
Exactly!! I haven't seen any single building of this height that resembles this tower, beside the Twin Towers of course..
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Old May 17th, 2012, 06:35 PM   #2079
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Originally Posted by RobertWalpole View Post
19:1 comes directly from a conversation with Vinoly.
Do you have any proof of this conversation taking place? You're contending with numbers and diagrams submitted to the city for review, so that's quite a bit of contradictory evidence against the 19:1 ratio.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 07:07 PM   #2080
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyre View Post
It is like you are saying that if I go into New York, a place where most buildings are beautiful and elegant, the MECA of skyscrapers and design a skyscraper in the shape of a giant turd, that it deserves to be there, because it doesnt have to look pretty and because ugly buildings also have a place...( I know I am exagerating but I just want to make a point)

I can understand what you are trying to say, but I dont think it is the same to compare an externally "ugly" human being with an ugly building? Humans have something called a personality and goes beyond their external appearance. A building is just that... a building. It will stand there and will always be part of the skyline. It wont suddenly "leave" move away from your perspective and you cannot choose to ignore it when looking at the skyline.

By the way, all I did was to say that New York, in my opinion deserves better designed buildings. It is not that I consider this building the ugliest thing ever, it is that I consider it uninspiring and I wouldnt want New York's tallest building to be this one. Not when there are marvelous buildings out there with amazing design. This looks... "cheap" at least for me.
Yeah, I know what you mean..But hey, if every building would be architectural masterpiece and everyone would love it, than that would be perfect world..And we all know that such thing doesn't exist..So I sorry if this building is not good enough for some of you, I'm more than fine with it and I will enjoy watching it rise..
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