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Old October 16th, 2012, 07:01 PM   #4041
patrykus
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Remember the discussion we had some time ago about this early render? I said back then that given new renders avaible online there is no way the towers grid will look like that. What Robert reported seems to final confirmation I was right. See how thin and delicate the grid on this render is. It is clear to me this is early model when steel grid structure was still considered. What we saw on the last renders is much thicker structure surely not steel but concrete. So when they say they resigned steel facade for the concrete one, mentioning support for the tower as an argument, I understand they meant the grid will be concrete instead of steel but does it definitely mean it won't be covered with panels or painted? The later doesn't even add much to the weight (only to the cost ).

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Old October 16th, 2012, 07:16 PM   #4042
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They could use brushed aluminium panels, along with glass ala 5th Av. Apple Store. That would look grand.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 07:46 PM   #4043
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One more floor on the 56th St side and this is street level!
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Old October 16th, 2012, 08:26 PM   #4044
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I think they meant that there won't be a steel cover on the concrete, but there still might (and I think it will) be paint on the concrete
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Old October 16th, 2012, 08:53 PM   #4045
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
I think they meant that there won't be a steel cover on the concrete
again...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertWalpole View Post
The decision ultimately was made not to use a metal facade because it would not provide the structural support needed for this very thin and very tall tower.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 09:00 PM   #4046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
I think they meant that there won't be a steel cover on the concrete, but there still might (and I think it will) be paint on the concrete
You are correct. It will have a smooth finish and may be painted white.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 09:13 PM   #4047
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If it is going to look like on the renders white paint or white matte panels are the most probable options, but definitely not an exposed concrete as you suggested earlier.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 09:31 PM   #4048
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
again...
I think you may have misunderstood what they've been saying. By structural support you automatically imagined structural support of the tower, however this doesn't have to be what that article was referring to. A cladding needs structural support too, to not fall off the building. You have to keep in mind that even though this building has a tuned mass damper, it will still sway more than your average concrete building. This sway could cause the panels to fall off the building. This problem might not have a financially feasible solution other than not using metal cladding at all. I'm not saying that this is definitely exactly what the article said, however it is a possibility, so I fear your certainty of this article's content might be rather misplaced
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Old October 16th, 2012, 09:42 PM   #4049
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I think I can read.

"it (the claddign) would not provide the structural support needed for this [...] tower"

is not

"the tower would not provide the structural support needed for this cladding"

which of course means only that they talked about the material from which the structural grid will be made of. So it won't be made out of steel. It still can be covered with steel panels, but of course it doesn't have to be and I never implied it definitely will. It can be just painted, polished, processed in any way, but definitely not left exposed in it's raw state.
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Last edited by patrykus; October 16th, 2012 at 09:50 PM.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 09:50 PM   #4050
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I'm afraid you're wrong. The meaning might still be that the metal facade would not provide sufficient support for itself in the case of a tower like this. The "for this very thin and very tall tower" might be a description of the factors that make it not feasible for this building to use this type of cladding. The "for" might be meant in the phrase "for this reason"
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Old October 16th, 2012, 10:11 PM   #4051
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This is really simple sentence saying about facade giving support to the tower not the other way around.

And it fits well with the render history I mentioned on the previous page. Such thin delicate structure had to be steel only in original plans.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 10:15 PM   #4052
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OMG what a debate.

HOW can CLADDING, which is NOT part of the supporting STRUCTURE be even considered into the towers engeneering?

This tower almost certainly will use "curtain wall cladding" which means the cladding is hanged infront of the superstructure. Therefore the used cladding has nothing to do with the structure itself.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 10:24 PM   #4053
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Actually it is unique solution but in this case facade (cladding is not appropriate term here I think) IS part of the supporting structure. And since Robert said they resigned the steel because it wouldn't support the tower means that it was originally the material of which the supporting facade structure was suppose to be made of but not necessarily the material covering the structure seen for the observer outside.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 11:33 PM   #4054
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A facade is not a part of the structure. A perimeter structure is called a perimeter structure, not a facade. The facade is a decorative cover of a perimeter structure
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Old October 16th, 2012, 11:50 PM   #4055
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This tower was always described to have "structural facade", a grid structure forming exterior sides of the building which meant to play important role in supporting the whole tower. It was even rumored to not have a real core because of that facade and the width of the tower. Regardless if the term structural facade is 100% correct or not it definitely doesn't mean just panels or paint (lol ) covering the tower.
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Old October 17th, 2012, 12:04 AM   #4056
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Don't make it even more confusing!
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Old October 17th, 2012, 12:32 AM   #4057
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What if, they're building it from wood?
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Old October 17th, 2012, 12:43 AM   #4058
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Offereins View Post
Don't make it even more confusing!
haha, well apparently the tower is unique to the extend that some gets easily confused about it, but what we have the discussion board for if not to makes things understandable
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Old October 17th, 2012, 02:49 AM   #4059
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What if, they're building it from wood?
This made my day!
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Old October 17th, 2012, 01:00 PM   #4060
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A geometric concrete exoskeleton holding up the glass innerstructure looks so simple and nice...
So this might come true? Well at least for the clean concrete exoskeleton... Yay
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