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Old November 10th, 2012, 08:29 PM   #4381
Kanto
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It already is. The speed of the complicated underground floors was nearly comparable to above ground floors on other buildings. That's fast
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Old November 10th, 2012, 08:43 PM   #4382
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Three floors a week?
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Old November 10th, 2012, 08:59 PM   #4383
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3 is damn much. 2 would be very fast already.
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Old November 10th, 2012, 09:24 PM   #4384
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These floors will be much smaller than those found in the typical NY high rise. Thus, this will rise very quickly.
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Old November 11th, 2012, 11:09 AM   #4385
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Quote:
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Three floors a week?
Remember how thin it is. This will be 2-3 times faster than a regular building's construction.
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Old November 11th, 2012, 04:07 PM   #4386
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Quote:
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Remember how thin it is. This will be 2-3 times faster than a regular building's construction.
3 floors per week is not going to happen.

Just think for a second:
It means 3 out of 5 or 6 days will be floor concrete pouring.

Other days 2 or 3 days will be rebar installation, columns installation, floor bracing installation, etc...

I'm not sure why people believe 3 floors per week will be somehow ok in here even with smaller floors.

Lets be more reasonable here
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Old November 11th, 2012, 04:09 PM   #4387
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Furthermnore, concrete needs itīs time to dry and settle. I expect a speed of 3 floors/2 weeks
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Old November 11th, 2012, 04:16 PM   #4388
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Quote:
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Furthermnore, concrete needs itīs time to dry and settle. I expect a speed of 3 floors/2 weeks
Even though floor plates are smaller, you need more resources going in to build at a faster rate than conventional sizes. Smaller footprint also makes logistics and ability to work at maximum resource level difficult. You can't fit the same number of workers on a smaller floor plate and expect higher productivity. Just doesn't work.
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Old November 11th, 2012, 04:40 PM   #4389
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That's true. Though you do need less forms, rebar and pouring. I guess both wide and thin buildings have their advantages and disadvantages in construction.
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Old November 11th, 2012, 05:02 PM   #4390
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This is going quite fast. I have been taking screenshots daily, sometimes as many as 5 to 10, with the most screenshots in one day, 18. These I have been examining very closely. By recording these images on a daily basis, and comparing each image, it is easy to see what has been done each day. I can go back to any date since I started, to see the progress.

As far as the speed of construction in NYC, my experience is that it usually does not take long for a tower to be constructed. NYC was the pioneer of the so-called "two-day cycle" of high-rise construction, which was developed shortly after World War Two. In such a cycle, it usually results in either two or three floors per week constructed, depending on the floor area. Smaller floor plates can result in more floors constructed in a given period. This applies to the tower, which usually has what are known as "typical floors", that is, floors whose floor plate areas are similar, and whose characteristics are repetitious. In a two day cycle, assuming that the previous floor slab (Let's call it Deck 1) has been poured that day (Let's call it Day 1), column rebar and forms are erected (after the concrete has hardened sufficiently, after a couple of hours) Floor forms are erected the same day, and rebar placed. Day 2, columns are poured, rebar crew finishes rebar. Day Three, floor Deck 2 is poured, Deck 1 forms are stripped and reshores placed beneath. Reshores must be placed immediately beneath stripped floors to carry the construction loads above. Since the lower floors have not attained their full strength, the loads have to be carried down via reshores through several lower floors to develop the needed capacity to support the imposed loads without excessive stress or deflection.

Don't forget, for rapid construction, large work crews are deployed. They can get this done quickly.

The lower floors we see currently constructed usually take longer, due to special conditions, such as concrete beams, differing elevations of floors, special reinforcing, etc. This also applies to the base portions of the building, until the typical floors are reached. Thereafter, this will rise quickly, barring any unforseen delays. Look at how fast One57 up the street went up, before the unfortunate crane boom collapse due to Hurricane Sandy. Another example is New York by Gehry (11 Spruce Street). I have witnessed many a building in NYC go up fast.
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Old November 11th, 2012, 05:40 PM   #4391
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They can build it fast, but they should keep it safe, concrete needs time to dry. And there is no much space for materials, so they have to stay on schedule.
I guess 5 floors per month so 60 floors per year.
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Old November 11th, 2012, 06:41 PM   #4392
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Quote:
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They can build it fast, but they should keep it safe, concrete needs time to dry. And there is no much space for materials, so they have to stay on schedule.
I guess 5 floors per month so 60 floors per year.
That would only mean a year and half from street level to top out. Works for me!
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Old November 11th, 2012, 07:51 PM   #4393
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I can't tell what's going to be the speed of construction of this particular building. But I can show the speed of construction of another building, in the same city, with concrete structure and of a similar sized floor plate.
It is 1715 Broadway, that has been built some blocks away during this year, and recently topped out.

The first picture is from february 12th and the second one from march 4th, that is a period of 20 days, in which they build 7 floors, that means 7 floors every 3 weeks or an average of 2,3 floors per week.

Again, this is another building, and not necessarily this one is going to be build at the same speed, but it's to show the speed that can be reached.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 600West218 View Post
A couple of pics from today:

image hosted on flickr

pic 12 by 600West218, on Flickr
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCD View Post
March 4th, 2012


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Old November 12th, 2012, 12:33 AM   #4394
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3 floors per week is still a lot more. However, for the columns and the core, they could of course pour 2 floors at a time.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 12:48 AM   #4395
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CCs77,

Thanks for posting those excellent pictures. They are terrific examples of construction of both a steel-framed building going up alongside a reinforced-concrete building.

On the concrete building, one sees the four base floors with the tower section above. Zoning determines how high the base floors are above the street (depending on the facing street width) then the setback for the tower as per the sky exposure plane set for the particular zoning area.

As CCs77 noted, the average rate of construction for the tower floors is 2 to 3 floors per week, as confirmed by his observation. Note the repetitiveness of the typical floors of the tower section, which allows for speed of construction. Also note the reshores (the struts seen between the floors, in front of the orange safety netting) that go down about ten floors below the topmost floors (seen more clearly on the second photo) . On this building example, the floor below the topmost slab is perhaps 2 days old, the next one down might be 4 days old, the next one below that may be 7 days old, and so one and so forth as you go down. The amount of floors to be reshores below the last slab cast is determined by the pouring cycle, and the strength attained by the lower floors. During each pour, test cylinders are sent to a testing lab to test the compressive strength of concrete. Some test cylinders are kept on site, others are sent to the lab that day of the pour. As per the specs, they are placed in a hydraulic press and broken at 7, 14, and 28 days after the pour. The cylinders on site go to the lab shortly before the test days.

The 432 Park Avenue tower would most likely go up fast as well.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 02:20 AM   #4396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcatio View Post
CCs77,

Thanks for posting those excellent pictures. They are terrific examples of construction of both a steel-framed building going up alongside a reinforced-concrete building.

On the concrete building, one sees the four base floors with the tower section above. Zoning determines how high the base floors are above the street (depending on the facing street width) then the setback for the tower as per the sky exposure plane set for the particular zoning area.

As CCs77 noted, the average rate of construction for the tower floors is 2 to 3 floors per week, as confirmed by his observation. Note the repetitiveness of the typical floors of the tower section, which allows for speed of construction. Also note the reshores (the struts seen between the floors, in front of the orange safety netting) that go down about ten floors below the topmost floors (seen more clearly on the second photo) . On this building example, the floor below the topmost slab is perhaps 2 days old, the next one down might be 4 days old, the next one below that may be 7 days old, and so one and so forth as you go down. The amount of floors to be reshores below the last slab cast is determined by the pouring cycle, and the strength attained by the lower floors. During each pour, test cylinders are sent to a testing lab to test the compressive strength of concrete. Some test cylinders are kept on site, others are sent to the lab that day of the pour. As per the specs, they are placed in a hydraulic press and broken at 7, 14, and 28 days after the pour. The cylinders on site go to the lab shortly before the test days.

The 432 Park Avenue tower would most likely go up fast as well.
Thanks for this information.

Where are the test cores taken from. I would think drilling holes in parts of the structure could weaken them or would at least need to be plugged.

Also, how do they know where to take core samples. Each floor would be made from concrete coming from a number of different trucks and each truck can have concrete with different characteristics, no? In that case, don't they need to make sure they get cores from the concrete poured from each truck?

Sounds complex to me.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 04:14 AM   #4397
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Some pictures from the site today:

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

Again, it is hard to get perspective from the cam and even these pictures but this is still a deep hole in the ground. I would guess it is still 30 or 40 feet down.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

There are some spots on the 56th street side where you can now peak through the walls but there is nothing to be seen at this stage, just clutter.

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by 600West218, on Flickr
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Old November 12th, 2012, 04:28 AM   #4398
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Thanks 600west218 for the last pictures, and by the way, one of the pictures I reposted earlier was yours too.

As for your question, the samples are not taken from the structure, they are taken from the truck and poured in some special molds to that end. What I don't know is if they have to take one sample of each truck or one of a given number of trucks (I guess it's the last) maybe marcatio could expand the information.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 04:30 AM   #4399
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Presumably, within a month, we'll now what the facade looks like.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 04:43 AM   #4400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCs77 View Post
Thanks 600west218 for the last pictures, and by the way, one of the pictures I reposted earlier was yours too.

As for your question, the samples are not taken from the structure, they are taken from the truck and poured in some special molds to that end. What I don't know is if they have to take one sample of each truck or one of a given number of trucks (I guess it's the last) maybe marcatio could expand the information.
Interesting. I remember hearing about each cement truck having a bucket test performed on its load. THat is they pour cement into a bucket and then turn it upside down and set the concrete on the sidewalk with the bucket removed. By seeing how it deforms or doesn't deform they could tell if it was properly mixed.
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