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Old February 8th, 2012, 05:54 PM   #1341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
Are you a developer...?
Architect turned city planner.

Quote:
Although risky, having an extremely tall tower and a landmark will automatically attract certain people that otherwise wouldn't be interested at all in a certain area or city.
Well being tall and being a landmark are different things. Yes, height can be used to enahce value or novelty, but it doesn't ensure the same value as being a true landmark. Plenty of tall buildings dot the landscape that are passed over attention-wise. It's a collective cultural thing amidst other factors that ascribes the landmark status.

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It also brings prestige to the developer, architect and city. Therefore, height is about prestige when there is no logical reason to build tall, and sometimes this can create a huge windfall for the company and city, other times it can fail miserably.
Agreed, but you're conceding the risk while also talking about building prestige into a brand, which most developers I've worked with ascribe to the experience of the structure, which is more than just height. To wit...
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Here, we have height for selling park views and penthouses that are the highest in the city. We have a logical reason for building tall as we create a certain emotional benefit for somebody (i.e, having the tallest condo in the city).
You've defined the reason to go high in this project - maximizing return on investment by creating as many viewsheds as possible, to take advantage of the location. This is not going high just for height's sake.

Keep in mind I've never said this as a business model won't work, merely that as an architectural contribution to the civic space/experience of the city the design is uneventful. Outside persons will see it purely for what it is, a collection of spaces pumped out mass-production style to yield private housing. It isn't designed for people to look at, or to compliment its block of residence, or to engage the skyline. And that's perfectly okay.

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Do you believe ESB will stand forever?
Of course not. Someday all great structures will fall, from the Eiffel Tower to the Sydney Harbor bridge. But the ESB is a cultural icon and will be propped up for as long as possible because it's an intregal element of the city. People come to NYC to see not just tall buildings but specific places, and the ESB is high on that list. It's a part of skyscraper history, a feature of many films and a hallmark of one architectural style. We'll be revering pictures of it long after it's gone.

More importantly it's a reminder that such structures can bridge generational and cultural gaps that help us connect and grow as communities. Without landmarks and special places communities as a whole can become disposable (see: much of suburbia). This doesn't mean such places are bad, but it limits their potential to be special, as well.

One man's thoughts, anyway.
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Last edited by GunnerJacket; February 8th, 2012 at 06:02 PM.
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Old February 8th, 2012, 06:08 PM   #1342
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"Due to restrictions this live video camera is temporarily off-line. Please check back soon."

www.432park.com
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Old February 8th, 2012, 07:15 PM   #1343
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"Due to restrictions this live video camera is temporarily off-line. Please check back soon."

www.432park.com
It states as well, "Currently Blasting on Site". So work is still ongoing. Nothing to worry about.
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Old February 8th, 2012, 07:52 PM   #1344
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Funny how a residential building flying under the radar is going to be taller than NY's highly praised new icon, the Freedom Tower aka 1WTC.
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Old February 8th, 2012, 08:16 PM   #1345
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I don't believe that it'll be allowed to fall into disrepair, but when/if it's surrounded by 600m+ buildings, then along with all the other buildings we know it might get replaced, but I suspect that won't be for many many years. I know you weren't asking me, but there we go.
I could never see that happen. Unless it was like 1000 years down the line but even then i doubt it
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Old February 8th, 2012, 08:43 PM   #1346
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Funny how a residential building flying under the radar is going to be taller than NY's highly praised new icon, the Freedom Tower aka 1WTC.
Why is that? The height for 1WTC is far more symbolic than some representation of the developers ambition, and it's not like there was some restriction preventing taller structures.
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Old February 8th, 2012, 08:44 PM   #1347
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I could never see that happen. Unless it was like 1000 years down the line but even then i doubt it
Yeah you're right. I rethought about it and of course even if it's dwarfed by all around it, it would still be the icon it is today and that would protect it.

I could see a tower like 432 being torn down far sooner than the ESB, unless some how it miraculously gains some sort of landmark status amongst the public, though that's gotta be so unlikely.
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Old February 8th, 2012, 09:14 PM   #1348
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Funny how a residential building flying under the radar is going to be taller than NY's highly praised new icon, the Freedom Tower aka 1WTC.
Funny? I think it's sad. 432 Park has a perfect height considering it's a residential building and I think that it will become the most iconic residential building in the world. On the other hand the WTC towers' height is a total joke. 1WTC is planned to be only as tall as the old North Tower and the other towers are far shorter than the Twins which is a horrible humiliation. Fortunately that humiliation is partially outdone by the fact that when measured from the north entrance 1WTC will be 1 meter taller. I think 432 Park deserves to be the tallest because 1WTC doesn't deserve it because it totaly ignores height just as the other WTC towers do even more (ignore height). They wanted to make the new WTC totaly unimpressive with height so it truly doesn't deserve to have any height titles

Well, but to end this post positively I'll go back to 432 Park. 432 Park is for me all what the new WTC should have been but ended up not being. For me 432 Park undoes the wrongs of the WTC redevelopment. When it comes to design the WTC towers are awesome but 432 Park is even more awesome and additionaly it has got height, that's something the WTC towers don't have
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Old February 8th, 2012, 09:26 PM   #1349
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For me, the new WTC is pretty much as good as it should be and 432 is the joke. As we know, 2 and 3 WTC are having trouble finding tenants, so surely if all the towers were taller, even 1 WTC might be having trouble? You love 432 even though it's so bland and is all about height, which let's face it, is entirely motivated by profit (which is fine), and yet you think the WTC 'fails' because it isn't stupidly uneconomically tall?

Also, how did the WTC towers fail in not being as tall as this? 1WTC is still taller than the ESB, and this wasn't even a twinkle in the developers eye when that was on the drawing board. I know you think the WTC towers 'fail', but just because to the roof this will be slightly taller, how does 432....not fail? That is to say if you think 1WTC is short, (which is ridiculous as it is over 500m (yes) and will be the tallest in the city) how is this great and tall? Even if you take 1WTC as being 417m, it's still 36m taller than the ESB.

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Old February 8th, 2012, 09:34 PM   #1350
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Problem is it was possible to make the WTC both sufficiently economical and tall byt not making 5 buildings but for example 3 or them. If they wouldn't build 4WTC and 7WTC then 1WTC could be as tall as the ICC in Hong Kong and 2WTC and 3WTC could have been arround as tall as 432 Park or the Willis Tower
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Old February 8th, 2012, 09:41 PM   #1351
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It's all a very trivial matter as height isn't everything. The WTC was about design over height and it's looking great. 432 is all about the height and that's fine, but I don't think it does anything for the skyline and might even be to it's detriment.
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Old February 8th, 2012, 09:53 PM   #1352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
Problem is it was possible to make the WTC both sufficiently economical and tall byt not making 5 buildings but for example 3 or them. If they wouldn't build 4WTC and 7WTC then 1WTC could be as tall as the ICC in Hong Kong and 2WTC and 3WTC could have been arround as tall as 432 Park or the Willis Tower
And then you have holes in the skyline. This idea of higher, higher, higher is getting ridiculous. The new wtc has wonderful proportions that fit beautifully into the skyline.

If they grouped all of that office space into a couple of box (I assume this is what you want) buildings what do you get? Twin Towers again, just bigger.

Being honest, do you even think out your opinions? It sounds like a Burj Khalifa-sized box is your idea of the perfect center piece for Manhattan.
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Old February 8th, 2012, 10:23 PM   #1353
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Of course I think about my opinions. As to your Burj Khalifa box, well, I never said that a Burj Khalifa box is what should have been built there. I love the design of the WTC towers so I'm perfectly satisfied with that I only wish they would be taller but not as tall as Burj Khalifa. In fact, no where near as tall Burj Khalifa as I stated in my previous post 484 meters (like ICC) for 1WTC and 433 - 442 meters (Like 432 Park or the Willis Tower). With these heights they would perfectly fit into the skyline in my opinion

As to 432 Park, as I said before, I think its height is perfect for its shape and I think it will become an iconic skyscraper which will greatly contribute to NYC's skyline
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Old February 8th, 2012, 11:14 PM   #1354
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Hey Kanto. Can you name your Top 5 favorite skyscrapers, Top 5 most iconic skyscrapers, and Top 5 most dominating skyscrapers for me?
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Old February 8th, 2012, 11:24 PM   #1355
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Hey Kanto. Can you name your Top 5 favorite skyscrapers, Top 5 most iconic skyscrapers, and Top 5 most dominating skyscrapers for me?
Add here 5 most ugliest too..
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Old February 8th, 2012, 11:26 PM   #1356
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^Lol.

Oh and, also, preferably the supertalls. Although I doubt you care for any non-supertall skyscrapers.
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Old February 8th, 2012, 11:30 PM   #1357
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Can't wait to see that list..I think his brain would be very interesting to psychologists..Very interesting and unusual taste in everything..
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Old February 8th, 2012, 11:40 PM   #1358
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I have the best question for Kanto: was there ever a boxy tower that you didn't like, and if so what was it?
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Old February 8th, 2012, 11:43 PM   #1359
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Now now guys. I think his opinions are a bit odd, but that doesn't mean he needs to be studied by analysts.
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Old February 8th, 2012, 11:48 PM   #1360
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Guys, go back to topic.
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