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Old July 30th, 2015, 04:42 PM   #16541
GunnerJacket
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Well, according to data from January 2015, Paris had approximately 15 million tourists in 2014. New York had 12 million. While below the numbers of Paris by not that much, Hong Kong for the same time period had 25 million tourists and Singapore 22 million. Both these cities lack the historic center in favor of sparse historic buildings scattered throughout the city, similar to NYC. So it looks like your "ancient monuments" claim is completely false.

...

Your opinion, which you are entitled to. But data shows that ancient buildings don't offer that much economic opportunity.
There are decidedly different types of tourism at play here, with widely varying sources of information. Here's a Forbes article implying NYC got 47 million visitors in 2009. It's tough to develop an apples to apples comparison because these things are counted differently, and even if they are measured similarly the reasons and impact of those visits can be dramatically varied. For instance, Atlanta is listed as having anywhere from 15-35 million visitors per year, but it's no secret most of those are for conferences or singular events as opposed to a bona fide tourist attraction. I'd wager a majority of the visitors to highly urbanized Chinese cities are in that same vein, and most of them are locals experiencing weekend trips. Conversely, Paris, Rome and London most assuredly have a more significant share of people who traveled specifically to see the unique and historic structures on hand.

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I would take the green, clean american suburbs over the outskirts of the average European city.
Not disputing this idea, but it is worth noting that the typical American suburb a) is now realizing similar types of economic stratification and the creation of suburban ghettos as, again, poorer households are segregated and without resources or incentives to maintain properties, and b) has been found to be more expensive to maintain in the long-haul due to the cost of more expansive utilities and infrastructure reaching out to fewer and fewer taxpayers. The suggestion is that over time the alleged benefits of the model won't be sustained without still further evolution.
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Old July 30th, 2015, 06:09 PM   #16542
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This is now their buble and like the "common people's" buble of 2008, this one too will burst, and when it does, these 50mill to 100million dolar condos will fall in price by up to 50%, at least that's my prediction.
.
Except that isn't what happened, ever. Back in 2008, during the worst national real estate collapse since the Great Depression, Manhattan residential real estate only had slight drops in sales price. High end real estate was actually least resistant to decline.

Obviously there will eventually be another recession, and there will eventually be real estate price declines. But it's extremely unlikely that high end real estate suffer a significant downturn, as there isn't much extreme high end real estate, the numbers of global superwealthy is skyrocketing, and Manhattan real estate hasn't dropped by 50% ever. No, not even in the 1929 crash.
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So the people buying these condo's now, during construction or right after will lose a lot of money, but everyone else will benefit. Another "correction" is imminent.
I would guess that the people buying this real estate are generally a lot smarter than you, and most will profit handsomely. Certainly the first buyers are already making huge gains and many have flipped for massive profits.
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Old July 30th, 2015, 06:29 PM   #16543
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I realize that's elementary architectural thinking but it beats having the top two floors portrayed as a lie, I say.
It's actually solid thinking and a fair point although I like everything about this building.

I like the fact that unlike many of these buildings we are seeing go up the top 250 FEET isn't basically a lie.

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Old July 30th, 2015, 11:38 PM   #16544
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This pic illustrates one reason why I wish the top were treated differently. The upper "floors" are utilitarian, having more in common with the exposed breaks in the building yet it's concealed behind glass like the luxury condos. IMO it would've been better if they'd added two more stories of condos (to keep the rhythm) and then have this area behind either solid wall or something more in line with the other open levels. I realize that's elementary architectural thinking but it beats having the top two floors portrayed as a lie, I say.
Well the aliens needed somewhere to park their little spaceship obviously.
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Old July 31st, 2015, 01:06 AM   #16545
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This pic illustrates one reason why I wish the top were treated differently. The upper "floors" are utilitarian, having more in common with the exposed breaks in the building yet it's concealed behind glass like the luxury condos. IMO it would've been better if they'd added two more stories of condos (to keep the rhythm) and then have this area behind either solid wall or something more in line with the other open levels. I realize that's elementary architectural thinking but it beats having the top two floors portrayed as a lie, I say.
All towers have mechanical floors. Sometimes they are at the base, sometimes they are part way up and sometimes they're at the top. They are almost always clad in a visually appealing way to fit with the architects vision. Frequently that means using the same cladding as the rest of the building.

This design was the proper choice for a tower based on simplicity and repetition. It means that the top block is comprised of twelve rows of identical windows, just like every block below it. Putting something else on top would disrupt that repetition.

If this design seems like a lie then it must be agonizing to walk down the street with pretty much every building seeming like a lie to you.
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Old July 31st, 2015, 01:26 AM   #16546
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LOL

With this light and angle, One57 looks like like a broad boulevard that straches beyond Manhattan on rush hour
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Old July 31st, 2015, 01:45 AM   #16547
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Originally Posted by GunnerJacket View Post
This pic illustrates one reason why I wish the top were treated differently. The upper "floors" are utilitarian, having more in common with the exposed breaks in the building yet it's concealed behind glass like the luxury condos. IMO it would've been better if they'd added two more stories of condos (to keep the rhythm) and then have this area behind either solid wall or something more in line with the other open levels. I realize that's elementary architectural thinking but it beats having the top two floors portrayed as a lie, I say.
I had the same opinion in the past, I even edited some photos so that PA432 got a little crown: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...#post118740662

Now I think its better without it, and all glass up to the top. (But I also like the design as whole way less, then I did back then).

What I really don't get is why they put solid materials behind the top to rows of windows.
Without that, it would be at least a bit transparent. The last four stories are mechanical, and I think this will become visible, when the tower is under use, because all the other mechanical levels are on the drum sections and behind all other window levels, are appartements.
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Old July 31st, 2015, 04:33 AM   #16548
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i think there are lighting panels behind the windows?
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Old July 31st, 2015, 10:16 AM   #16549
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Old July 31st, 2015, 04:36 PM   #16550
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All towers have mechanical floors. Sometimes they are at the base, sometimes they are part way up and sometimes they're at the top. They are almost always clad in a visually appealing way to fit with the architects vision. Frequently that means using the same cladding as the rest of the building.

This design was the proper choice for a tower based on simplicity and repetition. It means that the top block is comprised of twelve rows of identical windows, just like every block below it. Putting something else on top would disrupt that repetition.
A glass curtain building where you know some floors are all mechanical but they're hidden isn't being secretive, merely choosing a particular design template where the cladding is an intentional envelope. Here the design establishes a clear formula of 12+2, with the placement and display of the mechanical floors being overt and part of the architectural style. Except for some reason they break that mold at the top and take two floors we otherwise would presume to be part of the "12" and find they're something different! It's a forced illusion that for my money is a disingenuous twist compared with the rest of the design, which I at least respect. I'd have much rather seen something like what crowns and spires offered 2 posts below yours.

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If this design seems like a lie then it must be agonizing to walk down the street with pretty much every building seeming like a lie to you.
It does, actually. The perils of having any background in the field: You know how the sausage is made, as it were! The most irksome for those of us in Atlanta being the base of One Atlantic Center.

I understand the how's and why's of it all, particularly in how developers will rein in artistry for simple cost efficiency. I just see certain things that make me call a spade a spade, is all.
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Old July 31st, 2015, 07:15 PM   #16551
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I think the whole "floating sections" design would have been better executed visually if the grid pattern weren't uniform throughout the entire structure. The empty mechanical spaces should look more "empty".
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Old July 31st, 2015, 08:46 PM   #16552
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I think the whole "floating sections" design would have been better executed visually if the grid pattern weren't uniform throughout the entire structure. The empty mechanical spaces should look more "empty".
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Old July 31st, 2015, 08:57 PM   #16553
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I think the whole "floating sections" design would have been better executed visually if the grid pattern weren't uniform throughout the entire structure. The empty mechanical spaces should look more "empty".
I don't necessarily disagree, but the engineering of this building is already so extreme, I have to imagine that removing columns from those sections would be a disaster for the building's overall rigidity and stability.
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Old August 1st, 2015, 03:45 PM   #16554
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Old August 1st, 2015, 04:44 PM   #16555
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Old August 1st, 2015, 06:37 PM   #16556
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I hope they have lit panels behind the fake windows of the parapet and mechanical floors up top and I hope they get lit in a random fashion just like the rest of the tower would to give the appearance of occupied space all the way to the top. That would look so cool. If the glass on those floors does not illuminate the that building is going to look awkward at night.
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Old August 1st, 2015, 07:19 PM   #16557
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I think the whole "floating sections" design would have been better executed visually if the grid pattern weren't uniform throughout the entire structure. The empty mechanical spaces should look more "empty".
You might be quite satisfied when the netting is removed from the mechanical floors. It will then allow light through and make them looke more empty.
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Old August 1st, 2015, 07:32 PM   #16558
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A glass curtain building where you know some floors are all mechanical but they're hidden isn't being secretive, merely choosing a particular design template where the cladding is an intentional envelope. Here the design establishes a clear formula of 12+2, with the placement and display of the mechanical floors being overt and part of the architectural style. Except for some reason they break that mold at the top and take two floors we otherwise would presume to be part of the "12" and find they're something different! It's a forced illusion that for my money is a disingenuous twist compared with the rest of the design, which I at least respect. I'd have much rather seen something like what crowns and spires offered 2 posts below yours.

It does, actually. The perils of having any background in the field: You know how the sausage is made, as it were! The most irksome for those of us in Atlanta being the base of One Atlantic Center.

I understand the how's and why's of it all, particularly in how developers will rein in artistry for simple cost efficiency. I just see certain things that make me call a spade a spade, is all.
Your perfectly valid preference seems to have run wild and biased your perception to the point of fanaticism. There is no more forced illusion in this building than there is in any other building. It doesn't even use cladding over the load bearing structure. Look at WTC3, it has fake I-beams enclosing its real I-beams. This building merely repeats its glass panes to hide the rooftop mechanical units. This is standard practice and expected just like we know stone clad buildings aren't actually made of load bearing stone. You obviously despise the top of this building but it isn't a forced illusion or disingenuous twist.

And as for reigning in costs, this building is the exact opposite of reigning in costs.
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Old August 1st, 2015, 08:07 PM   #16559
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Of course the facade will be extended to cover the nasty mechanical stuff. Nothing spoils a building more than visible mechanical equipment.
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Old August 2nd, 2015, 02:58 AM   #16560
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