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Old April 2nd, 2012, 11:13 PM   #1661
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Well the most important facts all well known and I believe won't change. So height to width ratio, and the fact that it surely will be flat toped box let us discuss it's skyline impact already. The facade details or spacings won't change it's appearance in skyline from far away.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 11:53 PM   #1662
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put a nice spire on it and it would be an epic building, but this strange box is not nice to look at...
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 03:21 AM   #1663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancing Banana View Post
put a nice spire on it and it would be an epic building, but this strange box is not nice to look at...
I agree, maybe borrow the 4 corner spire style from 3 WTC and incorporate something like that in the skinnier 432 park. But without a spire is still alright in my view.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 08:20 AM   #1664
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That website still lists One57 as 953 feet (highest occupied floor) so 1397 is likely that, ie. it could end up taller.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 03:27 PM   #1665
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Quote:
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That website still lists One57 as 953 feet (highest occupied floor) so 1397 is likely that, ie. it could end up taller.
I thought the same thing. Not that it really matters, a tower this slender needn't be much taller either way.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 03:34 PM   #1666
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I agree, maybe borrow the 4 corner spire style from 3 WTC and incorporate something like that in the skinnier 432 park. But without a spire is still alright in my view.
exactly.

A four corner spire would do wonders for this tower. Being a skinny box is not original no matter how high you get. And no my problem is not the skinny part, it is mostly the box part, or to be exact the combination of skinny and box.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 06:28 PM   #1667
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If this building were not tall and thin it would have probably ended up as a shorter box. This is NYC, where they build to fit a strict zoning envelope and design is virtually dictated by these regulations. The fact that the building is at an extremely valuable location at least has given us a soaring tall tower that sets it apart.

I'm very happy that this is not some boring box of 250m designed to 'fit in', which was looking likely a few years ago. NYC needs taller buildings too, so I'm very happy that this tower is going up and completely satisfied with the 'public face' of this design. Again, a matter of taste, but I appreciate boxy simple towers of great scale.

I for one realize that due to NY's strict zoning regulations that a more elaborate form that everyone seems to want would NEVER have happened, ever. We would have gotten another shorter building, and the design probably would have been 'boxy' again to maximize the FAR at the site. You wouldn't see any curvaceous forms here, as they would have eaten into floor space and profits. Again, I'm being realistic, this is NYC, not Dubai, China or even London. You have to understand how things work in the city and you have to understand how zoning + finances = less flexibility in design. I've heard developers and architects several times in interviews talking about these limitations in NYC and how hard it is to design something memorable with so many requirements to satisfy.

Last edited by aquablue; April 3rd, 2012 at 06:35 PM.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 08:49 PM   #1668
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There's a difference between minimalism as art, minimalist due to terms, and simply avoiding creativity all together. (Hyperbole 432 fans. Don't panic)

I've no problem with maximizing the space and don't even care about it being a flat-topped box. I'm as realistic as the next architectural fan about the impact of developers, codes, etc. But ultimately any building must engage its context, especially such a significant skyscraper in arguably the world's most famous city. I'd be thrilled to see more articulation of cladding, artistic focal points, divisional emphasis of the utility floors, some form of crown, etc. There are plenty of ways to add to a facade without changing form. They just aren't being applied here, is all.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 08:58 PM   #1669
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This building is quintessential New York. It blends the conservatism of Park Avenue, with the extreme heights that NYC is famous for, how can anyone complain? And it isn't a boring box, boring and elegant do not fit hand in hand. The Trump World Tower by the UN is just a box and it's amazingly beautiful, as are all the boxes in lower Manhattan. I'm fine with boxes in NYC. Remember, NYC isn't Dubai, there are height limits here, and reasons to maximize floor space. The minute NYC builds a building that resembles Shanghai Tower, or the Burj Khalifa, I will have lost all faith in the future of this amazing city's architecture.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 09:01 PM   #1670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnerJacket View Post
There's a difference between minimalism as art, minimalist due to terms, and simply avoiding creativity all together. (Hyperbole 432 fans. Don't panic)

I've no problem with maximizing the space and don't even care about it being a flat-topped box. I'm as realistic as the next architectural fan about the impact of developers, codes, etc. But ultimately any building must engage its context, especially such a significant skyscraper in arguably the world's most famous city. I'd be thrilled to see more articulation of cladding, artistic focal points, divisional emphasis of the utility floors, some form of crown, etc. There are plenty of ways to add to a facade without changing form. They just aren't being applied here, is all.
I agree about the crown part, I think there are excellent crowns in NYC. But a crown doesn't fit with the theme of this building. This building aims to be modern and minimalist. Also, we can't judge cladding until we've seen it. We had no idea Gem Tower, 4 WTC, or One 57, would look so spectacular until we actually saw the cladding. Be patient, and don't prejudge.
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Old April 4th, 2012, 12:12 AM   #1671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royal rose1 View Post
This building is quintessential New York. It blends the conservatism of Park Avenue, with the extreme heights that NYC is famous for, how can anyone complain? And it isn't a boring box, boring and elegant do not fit hand in hand. The Trump World Tower by the UN is just a box and it's amazingly beautiful, as are all the boxes in lower Manhattan. I'm fine with boxes in NYC. Remember, NYC isn't Dubai, there are height limits here, and reasons to maximize floor space. The minute NYC builds a building that resembles Shanghai Tower, or the Burj Khalifa, I will have lost all faith in the future of this amazing city's architecture.
There are not really any height restrictions in NY. With transferrable air rights the only limit is $$$. The FAA has a 2000' mark that requires some kind of approval... but they have approved other communication towers in the US higher than 2000'. Economics and politics are the only thing keeping NY from going stupid tall, not the law.
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Old April 4th, 2012, 01:21 AM   #1672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnerJacket View Post
There's a difference between minimalism as art, minimalist due to terms, and simply avoiding creativity all together. (Hyperbole 432 fans. Don't panic)

I've no problem with maximizing the space and don't even care about it being a flat-topped box. I'm as realistic as the next architectural fan about the impact of developers, codes, etc. But ultimately any building must engage its context, especially such a significant skyscraper in arguably the world's most famous city. I'd be thrilled to see more articulation of cladding, artistic focal points, divisional emphasis of the utility floors, some form of crown, etc. There are plenty of ways to add to a facade without changing form. They just aren't being applied here, is all.
Why MUST it engage its context? That is just your opinion, yours alone. I happen to think that buildings that DO NOT engage their context can often work out to be stunning, and I feel that way about this gracious tower. Again, no building must be anything. The developers own the site and can do what the bloody hell they want. This is NY, there are no design reviews or approval boards.

Again, I happen to like that the facade is simple and elegant and that it doesn't attempt to be too engaging. Your 'articulations of cladding, crown, artistic focal points' are not necessary in my opinion and would ruin a beautiful minimalist building that follows a great NY tradition of simple but elegant international style towers.

Last edited by aquablue; April 4th, 2012 at 01:34 AM.
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Old April 4th, 2012, 02:14 PM   #1673
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People, finally stop the City vs City! It's a mere waste of time, as we'll delete your posts anyway.

This thread is ONLY about the project at 432 Park Avenue, NOTHING else!
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Old April 4th, 2012, 05:22 PM   #1674
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Why MUST it engage its context? That is just your opinion, yours alone.
HOW a building engages it's surroundings is left to the designer and that's fine, but there's no choice in a structure becoming a part of its setting. This building will be part of the skyline and streetscape regardless of their attempts to shine or hide.

To wit, no one is saying they can't choose this style, just that some of us are suggesting the results are 'boring.' After all, this is a message board for critiquing architecture, no? I for one am not telling them do anything but I've not yet heard from the designer some profound theme or principle why this design/massing model is to be celebrated. I simply don't see why others are making such a big deal of it, as if being tall is all that matters these days. That's all.

If this rocks your boat then by all means be happy with it.

Cheers.

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Old April 4th, 2012, 06:12 PM   #1675
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There is a great message in the webcam's website

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Old April 4th, 2012, 07:21 PM   #1676
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Nice to see a developer appreciate those who follow their projects.
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Old April 4th, 2012, 09:21 PM   #1677
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Indeed, nice idea, more than one webcam.
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Old April 4th, 2012, 11:18 PM   #1678
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Truly an awesome idea by the developer. Especially since they know that the people who can actually afford to live in there won't be the ones watching. Great to see a developer who cares about those interested in their work.
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Old April 4th, 2012, 11:39 PM   #1679
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That is a nice one. They could still make us even more happy with renders.
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Old April 5th, 2012, 01:42 AM   #1680
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The design of this building reminds me a lot of 1 Madison Square Park on 23st , especially the "floating" sections that stick out every 5 floors. This particular building even at only 617ft it sticks out for being very skinny and boxy but tall.

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In fact, most people I ask think this is at least 800ft at first sight.
What I'm trying to get to is imagine this twice as tall and I think many people will be amazed with 432 park.
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