Irish Presidential Election 2011

[saoró...]

If ye wouldnt mind there odlum, I'd prefer you didnt automatically tie my opinion to my orientation.

Your name is odlum so you must subsist entirely on porridge.

[belfastuniguy]

Originally Posted by saoró...

If ye wouldnt mind there odlum, I'd prefer you didnt automatically tie my opinion to my orientation.

+1

[odlum833]

Originally Posted by saoró...

If ye wouldnt mind there odlum, I'd prefer you didnt automatically tie my opinion to my orientation.

I didn't.

[nordisk celt83]

Originally Posted by odlum833

I didn't.

You did actually.

My assumption from Saoro's post is that he's gay, and plans on voting in the presidential election. Just to recap, your post implied that every single gay person who casts a vote will do so in favour of David Norris.

To anyone who fully comprehends the English language that's what it says anyway.


It's been a week of semantics really. The nuances of the English language, an ability to fully comprehend it, and decipher suggestive innuendos and misrepresented quotations appears to be a great difficulty for many, many people.

It really is time people/right-wing rags started focussing on what's good about other candidates instead of raking up clearly misconstrued/misquoted articles from the past.

Lest we forget, the daily mail, UK version, is the paper that spoke about Stephen Gately's death in the most untruthful/horrendous of terms!!!

[odlum833]

Time for your lines Nordisk

[Catmalojin]

Excellent article, and completely true.

Campaign against Norris stinks of homophobia

Thu, Jun 16, 2011

The treatment of the Joycean scholar is analogous with the calculated destruction of Oscar Wilde, writes DAVID ADAMS

CASTING MY mind back to when I was, say, 14 or 15: if an attractive, older woman had offered to initiate me in a loving, gentle way into the joys of sex, would I have refused?

Like hell, I would.

I’d have been into her arms like a flash, in case she changed her mind. In fact, forget about her being attractive, loving and gentle. Such were my sexual yearnings at that age I’d have succumbed to virtually any older female who didn’t look and act like an extra from a horror film (and even then I wouldn’t bet on it).

Any heterosexual man who claims otherwise is either deluding himself or suffering from severe memory loss. Would the woman have been wrong in taking advantage of me? Emphatically, yes. What would my reaction have been if someone had “initiated” one of my sons at that age? I’d have been outraged, and dragged her or him through every court in the land to get justice.

But that is not the point. Although I am no longer a barely post-pubescent youngster, I can still remember what it was like to be one – and so can David Norris. Heterosexual males should substitute “mature woman” for “mature man” in what Norris said in that Magill interview, and they’ll realise the degree to which he understated the case.

Apparently he would have “greatly relished” such an encounter.

Greatly relished?

I’d have felt as if all my birthdays and Christmases had come at once. As for Norris pointing out that there is widespread confusion between paedophilia and pederasty: of course there is, reflecting a (wholly understandable) public near-hysteria about child safety.

Pederasty is as described above, only involving two males. Norris mentioned this in the context of what he and presumably most other gay lads fantasised about at 14 or 15, in the same way that I and my heterosexual classmates worked ourselves into a lather of excitement over Mrs Ever-so-sexy, the English teacher.

Norris made perfectly clear in his Magill interview, and has done many times since, that what he would have liked when he was a frustrated, highly hormonal youngster bears no resemblance to the thoughts and desires of the mature person he is today.

Again, he spoke for every other right-thinking adult male on the planet.

Norris also claimed in Magill that there are degrees of sexual abuse, and even of rape. Is any rational person seriously trying to argue that there aren’t?

Let’s not even bother with the obvious instance of a young lad who by virtue of being only a couple of months older than his girlfriend can be guilty of statutory rape.

To allow for no distinction between the horrendous crime of rape and the even more horrendous crime of beating someone to a pulp while raping them is absolute lunacy. Ken Clarke, the British lord chancellor and secretary of state for justice, got into some bother a few weeks ago for saying essentially the same thing as Norris.

However, like me, Clarke was always on far safer ground in stating what should be self-evident to anyone with sufficient wit to tie their own shoelaces.

As a heterosexual, he was never going to be accused of anything more serious than muddled thinking, whereas the unstated but carefully constructed inferences against Norris are of a different, more sickening order altogether.

Nor should we be surprised, given that the dirty little campaign against him stinks to the rooftops of homophobia (don’t kid yourself there isn’t a campaign, the dots aren’t that hard to join up). The homophobe believes that at best homosexuality is a (reprehensible) lifestyle choice, at worst a terrible fundamental flaw in the essential make-up of a person.

According to this bizarre thinking, someone who either chooses or is driven by nature to sleep with a member of his or her own sex is capable of just about any sexual perversion.

Hence the persistence of homophobes in trying to link gay men to paedophilia, despite every statistic showing that while the overwhelmingly majority of paedophiles are indeed male, they are also heterosexual (the remainder are either not attracted to post-pubescent people at all, or are attracted to virtually anything with a pulse).

Statistically, therefore, contrary to what the bigots try to intimate, it is far safer to leave your child in the care of a gay man than with his heterosexual counterpart. It’s worth remembering that Norris’s only “crime” has been to put himself forward as a prospective candidate for the presidency. While in many respects democracy is dependent upon the freedom to throw mud, there have to be limits to the depths to which politics are allowed to sink.

Imagine for a second how it must feel to be publicly smeared in the way that Norris has. The treatment of this Joycean scholar is somewhat blackly analogous with the calculated destruction of Oscar Wilde. I have never met Norris, but he strikes me as a fundamentally decent person – his major weakness, it appears, is to presume that everyone is as fair-minded and decent as himself.

© 2011 The Irish Times

[Catmalojin]

Another possible Fine Gael candidate emerges:

Avril Doyle may run for FG presidential bid
Updated: 15:44, Saturday, 18 June 2011



Former Fine Gael MEP, Avril Doyle, may enter the race to represent the party in the presidential election.

Ms Doyle has contacted a large number of party backbenchers to gauge her likely support.

Its understood that the former junior minister has told colleagues that she would have been a strong backer of John Bruton had he contested the nomination, and that she now feels the way is clear for her to stand.

Avril Doyle was an MEP for ten years until 2009 and prior to that was a TD for Wexford and a junior minister.

If she decides to contest the nomination she would be facing MEPs Gay Mitchell and Mairead McGuinness as well as former Progressive Democrat Pat Cox.

Story from RTÉ News:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0618/doylea.html

[odlum833]

Pat Cox is the best candidate on the FG side.

As for Avril Doyle...

[Catmalojin]

Pat Cox is just looking out for Pat Cox. I'd be incredibly pissed off if I was in Fine Gael to have him parachuted in.

None of the candidates (confirmed or potential) is particularly appealing to me, though I am sickened by the campaign against Norris especially.

Anyway, in other news:

Higgins wins Labour presidential nomination
Updated: 16:50, Sunday, 19 June 2011



Michael D Higgins has won the Labour Party nomination to contest the presidential election.

He defeated Fergus Finlay and Kathleen O'Meara at a convention in Dublin this afternoon.

Mr Higgins polled 37 votes, compared to 18 for Mr Finlay and seven for Ms O'Meara.

52 TDs, senators and MEPS were joined by 14 members of the Labour executive council for the selection process.

Mr Higgins told delegates he had been privileged to work with people at all levels in the political process over his career.

During that career he had suffered because he had sometimes put principle before popularity he said.

He said his experience as a minister showed though it was possible to possess a vision as well as achieving practical results.

He told the meeting the party could win the presidential election adding that the campaign theme would be 'building an inclusive citizenship in a creative society appropriate to a republic'.

He said he offered a presidency of integrity and vision, promising a vigorous campaign.

Addressing delegates at the start of the meeting, Eamon Gilmore said the Labour Party would not be claiming ownership of the candidate selected because the party respected the independence of the presidency.

Mr Gilmore said that from the moment the candidate is chosen the Labour Party would treat them as if they were already the President.

In his presentation, Mr Finlay outlined his record with Dick Spring in government and his work in the disability sector.

He said that in everything he had done and written he had been true to the values of the Labour Party.

Mr Finlay said it was absolutely critical that the Labour Party did well in the presidential election because history had shown that poor performances had damaged parties.

He said Ireland needed a working president whose sleeves would be 'rolled up' for the next seven years, and Mr Finlay said he believed he had the ability to win the race and do that.

In an emotional speech Ms O'Meara said the arrival of the IMF here had prompted her to think of her late father who had worked hard to build this country, and of her son whom she'd hoped would be able to return from Australia.

The plight of the country led her to the conclusion that her own leadership could be of use in the job of building this nation again, she said.

Separately, a spokesman for Avril Doyle said the former MEP would be making an announcement about whether she will be seeking the Fine Gael nomination within 24 hours.

Story from RTÉ News:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0619/president.html

[odlum833]

Not Presidential material. And I am not being bad but is there not a real risk- at his age - that he would die in office?

[odlum833]

There is an opinion poll in tomorrow's Independent. Hopefully it will leak this evening

[odlum833]

Poll results


David Norris 21%
Micheal D. Higgins 19%
Maireaid McGuinness 10%
Pat Cox 7%
Sean Gallagher 6%
Mary Davis 4%
Niall O'Dowd 3
Avril Doyle 3
Gay Mitchell 2%


Interestingly FG have a combined 22% and have yet to select their candidate.

[nordisk celt83]

I hope FG don't select Mairead McG, she could actually do well. The rest of their horrendous candidates, especially Frau Doyle and Christian Democrat Gay, would crash and burn big time. That's not to say I don't think Pat Cox is absolutely reprehensible, it just means I think he'd do better than the other two conservative idiots.

It's looking good for Michael D or DN, as they'll transfer nicely to each other!!! Both are equally good candidates IMO. (I've always been a huge fan of Michael D)

[odlum833]

"Madam" editor is bowing out of the Irish Times. But a mistake was made this morning with a mock epaper image being put on the website instead of todays actual paper. The mock up, by some people in the Times obviously delighted she is bailing out, even suggests a possible Presidential bid

[Catmalojin]

Bruton backs Mitchell for FG presidency nod
Updated: 13:00, Saturday, 2 July 2011



In what is seen as a significant boost in Gay Mitchell's presidential bid, former Taoiseach John Bruton has backed the MEP for the Fine Gael nomination.

Gay Mitchell said he was greatly honoured to receive the backing of the party's vice president and former Taoiseach.

He said Mr Bruton's support would indicate to people that he has substantial support behind him for the Fine Gael Nomination.

Mr Bruton signed Gay Mitchell's nomination papers yesterday - which he is entitled to do as Fine Gael vice president.

Members of Fine Gael's parliamentary party, councillors and national executive meet next Saturday to pick a candidate.

Gay Mitchell is in a battle with fellow MEP Mairead McGuinness, former European Parliament President Pat Cox and junior minister Avril Doyle for the Fine Gael nomination.

Sinn Féin decision pending

Meanwhile Sinn Féin is meeting in Dublin to decide on whether to run a candidate in the forthcoming election.

Sinn Féin president Gerry Adams said his party will decide over the next two months on whether to run a candidate.

He again ruled himself out of running as a candidate and admitted that it was him who advised independent candidate Niall O'Dowd to withdraw his bid for the presidency.

Story from RTÉ News:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0702/mitchellg.html

...

[odlum833]

[odlum833]

..

Cox emerges as dark horse in tightened race for FG nod

Friday July 08 2011
THE Fine Gael hierarchy is playing up the chances of Pat Cox or Mairead McGuinness winning the presidential election in an effort to block Gay Mitchell from becoming the party's candidate.

After Avril Doyle pulled out of the presidential race yesterday, Ms McGuinness, Mr Mitchell and Mr Cox are locked in a tight three-way battle for the place on the ticket.

Ms McGuinness's lead has been whittled back to leave her narrowly the favourite, with a late surge from Mr Mitchell, but Mr Cox is still very much the dark horse and thought to be gaining ground.

Environment Minister Phil Hogan posed for photographs with Mr Cox yesterday, but this was dismissed by sources close to the party strategist as "a chance encounter, which should not be interpreted as support for Mr Cox's campaign".

Several party sources said wavering TDs and senators are being contacted by senior Fine Gael figures telling them of a poll showing Mr Cox and Ms McGuinness performing better than Mr Mitchell.

The poll apparently shows Mr Cox and Ms McGuinness securing 22pc of the vote each, with Mr Mitchell behind them on 14pc. "The bottom line is Gay Mitchell and Avril Doyle can't win the presidency but Mairead McGuinness and Pat Cox can. The figures speak for themselves," a senior party source said.

The circulation of the poll results is viewed as an effort to damage Mr Mitchell.

"The turnips are being manured," a party TD said, in a disparaging description of his party colleagues.

A number of sources said party headquarters was "terrified" of the prospect of Mr Mitchell winning the nomination. "They want Cox and at this stage would be happy with Mairead. But they don't want Gay," a party TD said.

"Cox is climbing. But he was coming from an awful long way back. They are of the view he has the best prospect of winning," a senator said.

"Pat Cox has picked up a fair bit of momentum. My hunch at the moment is the silence of some people is because of how well Cox is doing," a neutral TD said.

After performing poorly, Ms Doyle withdrew from the race. She said she was "unlikely to secure the nomination not withstanding the fact that I retain the support of a sizeable number of the parliamentary party, the National Executive and the councillors nationwide".



Irish Independent

[Catmalojin]

Gay Mitchell is FG presidential candidate
Updated: 17:48, Saturday, 9 July 2011



Dublin MEP and former junior minister Gay Mitchell has been selected as Fine Gael's candidate to contest the upcoming presidential election.

Speaking to delegates ahead of the vote at the party's convention in Dublin, Mr Mitchell said he had the 'heart and the history' to make the historic breakthrough in electing a Fine Gael president.

He said he did not appeal to one class, but to all those who were striving to cope in society.

The other candidates in contention were MEP for the East constituency Mairead McGuinness and the former PD and Independent TD and MEP, Pat Cox, a recent recruit to the party.

Mr Cox told the gathering that he was best placed to win the presidency for Fine Gael.

Referring to his time as President of the European Parliament, Mr Cox said Europe was key to our recovery and he knew it intimately at its highest levels.

Mairead McGuinness spoke of her electoral record and stressed her record in the European Parliament.

Ms McGuinness said her determination to succeed for the party was unquestioned.

Arriving for the convention, Taoiseach Enda Kenny said the next presidency of the Republic Ireland will be 'the most crucial since the foundation of the State'.

And Mr Kenny said whoever the Fine Gael candidate is will have a 'decent chance' of winning.

Story from RTÉ News:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0709/president.html

Meh.

[odlum833]

So two gays contesting the presidency (that one will be used alot!). Can Cox still go it alone if he wants to? Am I right in saying he could still win support by other means like councils?


Bad choice for FG IMO.

[nordisk celt83]

Cox won't run independently, he's a joke. He'd have to resign from FG, and become an independent, and beg FF councillors for votes.
Although, I believe he was a member of Fianna Fail just before he was a member of Fine Gael, and just before he was an Independent, and just before he was a member of the Progressive Democrats. So, in that respect, his arse-licking, opportunistic career would have come full-circle.

In saying all that, Gay Mitchell is an even bigger joke than Pat Cox, so the country is screwed if we have to suffer a FG presidency!!!