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Old August 16th, 2014, 11:29 PM   #201
Slartibartfas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom 958 View Post
What's the airport doing in this thread? :
It shows the constructions work of the DIA rail station that is part of the public transport expansion plan. Whats so weird about that?
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Old August 17th, 2014, 09:09 AM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post


IMG_7314
by RyanDravitz, on Flickr


IMG_7317
by RyanDravitz, on Flickr


IMG_7318
by RyanDravitz, on Flickr
That is one beautiful station -the interior may not be as ornate as Seattle's King Street station (as far as the historic bits are concerned), but still, I like what they have done with it.
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Old August 17th, 2014, 06:54 PM   #203
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I got to visit Denver a few weeks ago, and Union Station was one of my favorite parts! They have done an amazing Job!, Especially with the new ring covering shed thing in the back.
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Old August 17th, 2014, 11:28 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
It shows the constructions work of the DIA rail station that is part of the public transport expansion plan. Whats so weird about that?
It was another way of saying, "The Underground Bus Terminal looks like it belongs at an airport."

*sigh*

Last edited by Tom 958; August 31st, 2014 at 04:37 PM. Reason: typo
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Old August 31st, 2014, 12:50 AM   #205
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How Denver Is Becoming the Most Advanced Transit City in the West

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By 2018, when all but one of the ten FasTracks lines should be completed, a metropolitan area with a projected population of 3 million, spread out over 2,340 square miles, will be served by nine rail lines, 18 miles of bus rapid transit, and 95 stations. Many argue it will turn Denver into the west's most advanced transit city, vaulting it beyond better-known peers Portland, Los Angeles, and Vancouver, British Columbia...

It's a beautiful vision, if one undermined by an uncomfortable truth. Denver's mode share for transit — the proportion of people who use buses or light rail to commute — is only about 6 percent. Contrast this with the Canadian city of Calgary, where a similarly sized bus and light-rail fleet operating in a similarly dispersed landscape draws in a mode share of nearly 17 percent. Even epically sprawled Atlanta and automobile-mad Los Angeles manage to achieve almost twice Denver's per capita transit ridership.
This has been in the back of my mind for a while: I fervently hope to be proven wrong by history, but I fear that Denver is building too much rail too fast, and will find itself in the dread death spiral of increasing fares, service cutbacks, and declining ridership.

Please discuss.

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Old August 31st, 2014, 01:01 AM   #206
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Then charge more for car parking in the city. Simples.

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Old August 31st, 2014, 02:36 AM   #207
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You can't have a lot of ridership without having a robust system in place first.

They should develop more TOD as well.

I also think the line to the airport will be a huge success. At the same time, the dreadful BRT to Boulder will fail, it should not be built, and funds instead diverted to build actual rail service there.
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Old August 31st, 2014, 03:40 AM   #208
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Before the Orange Line BRT opened in Los Angeles, light rail advocates were predicting that it wouldn't attract much ridership and would be a failure. After it opened and proved a success, light rail advocates started arguing that it should be converted to light rail because the ridership was too high for BRT.
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Old August 31st, 2014, 03:48 AM   #209
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Buses are hideous by nature, no new BRT projects should be allowed federal funding in US, only fixed-guidance systems (rail, monorail etc) should be given funds for their technological superiority.
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Old August 31st, 2014, 04:15 AM   #210
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The cold hard reality is that rail transit systems typically rely on feeder networks of bus routes.
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Old August 31st, 2014, 04:39 AM   #211
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The following graphic is from the Transport Politic website < http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2...nned-for-2014/ >.



The impressive thing is how many projects and how many route miles of Bus Rapid Transit will be built using how little money compared to Light Rail and Heavy Rail.

Bus Rapid Transit
Total Construction Cost: ~$2.5 Billion
Total Projects: 32
Total Route Miles: 257

Commuter Rail
Total Construction Cost: ~$13 Billion
Total Projects: 13
Total Route Miles: 220

Heavy Rail
Total Construction Cost: ~$28 Billion
Total Projects: 11
Total Route Miles: 81

Light Rail
Total Construction Cost: ~$27 Billion
Total Projects: 25
Total Route Miles: 144

Streetcar
Total Construction Cost: ~$2 Billion
Total Projects: 16
Total Route Miles: 41
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Old August 31st, 2014, 06:39 AM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_christine View Post
The cold hard reality is that rail transit systems typically rely on feeder networks of bus routes.
Indeed. And if there's not enough operations funding to run at least minimal rail service and an adequate bus network, it's the buses that'll be cut.

I wish that Jarrett Walker would write about Denver, though his latest effort is almost eerily appropriate to the topic at hand. This article about his proposal for reconfiguring Houston's bus network is the kind of thing I'm talking about. It promises a large increase in ridership and general utility for little or no extra cost because it would be done mainly by arranging existing bus service more efficiently. A similar effort in Denver might produce even better results as expanding rail service and efficient bus service combine to feed a virtuous cycle of increasing ridership. But if the bus service doesn't do its part, the opposite could happen.

Last edited by Tom 958; August 31st, 2014 at 06:49 AM.
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Old August 31st, 2014, 08:34 AM   #213
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BRT also offers route flexibility that fixed rail systems cannot match.

BRT also can do one thing that no rail service can do........get rid of the dreaded "last mile". Even most suburbanites don't mind tacking rapid transit but it's waiting for the bus from the station to their home that they don't like and is often time consuming hence the popularity of park-n-rides. People can take the main transit from those stations without worrying about connections.

BRT in it's best form such as Ottawa's Transitway is a bus-only system where you fly down the corridors {I use to live in Ottawa and the Transitway is VERY fast} and then the buses disembark at different stations to different neighborhoods ...............rail comfort and speed without the transfers.

High quality BRT and especially those with totally segregated bus-ways offer the high frequency, speed, and convenience that people want and in many cases no rail system can provide.
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Old August 31st, 2014, 11:48 AM   #214
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Are those Stats above comparing apples with apples? I am skeptical.

When comparing costs only comparing full costs to full costs can give a somewhat appropriate picture. And even then you miss out on the indirect benefits.

BRT at high capacities needs considerably more space than rail systems and lead to very complex systems because of the multitude of lines heading through the centre. But I think most importantly, bigger "flexibility" in a PT system is not a feature but a bug. It is the much more "frozen" nature of rails systems, that give urban development around it the kind of long term guarantees it needs. Of course, if central heavy BRT systems are built on huge and expensive structures they can reach a similar advantageous "inflexibility" but than they loose of course the cost benefit.
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Last edited by Slartibartfas; August 31st, 2014 at 11:55 AM.
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Old August 31st, 2014, 02:43 PM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Are those Stats above comparing apples with apples? I am skeptical.
...
Please read the source article < http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2...nned-for-2014/ >. The Transport Politic is very pro-transit regardless of transit mode (bus or rail). The article includes a table with the data for all the individual projects.
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Old August 31st, 2014, 03:03 PM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2 View Post
...

BRT also can do one thing that no rail service can do........get rid of the dreaded "last mile". Even most suburbanites don't mind tacking rapid transit but it's waiting for the bus from the station to their home that they don't like and is often time consuming hence the popularity of park-n-rides. People can take the main transit from those stations without worrying about connections.

...
That's an excellent point that is often missed. Environmental impact studies for new transit lines typically compare transit modes by making the assumption that BRT and LRT would operate in exactly the same manner. That is, they would follow the same route and have the same station locations. The critical assumption is that people would get on a regular bus in their neighborhood and would then transfer to LRT or BRT to get downtown. Las Vegas did their study differently. Las Vegas assumed that buses would operate on their normal routes in outlying areas and would then merge onto a dedicated busway to get downtown. This eliminated a transfer and resulted in faster journey times for the BRT option. The following slide tells the story.



I fully agree with critics of BRT that LRT is more fun to ride. When visiting a city that is new to me, I'll go out of my way to ride a rail line, but never a bus line. There is also the snob factor associated with LRT. Having an LRT or streetcar line has become as important to second-tier cities as having an airline is to third-world countries.
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Old August 31st, 2014, 04:20 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_christine View Post

I fully agree with critics of BRT that LRT is more fun to ride. When visiting a city that is new to me, I'll go out of my way to ride a rail line, but never a bus line. There is also the snob factor associated with LRT. Having an LRT or streetcar line has become as important to second-tier cities as having an airline is to third-world countries.
It's just a good tool for development. No matter which way you cut it, BRT isn't going to help appreciate land values the way LRT can, and that's what many cities are after these days.
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Old October 4th, 2014, 11:43 PM   #218
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My impressions of Denver public transport:

Arriving from the airport with the bus (soon it will be railway) to the city center bus terminal, which is underground.
[IMG]http://i59.************/2saf1vc.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i57.************/2dw8bvd.jpg[/IMG]
LRT
[IMG]http://i62.************/11qqvsy.jpg[/IMG]
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Last edited by Falubaz; October 4th, 2014 at 11:59 PM.
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Old October 5th, 2014, 12:06 AM   #219
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[IMG]http://i60.************/2nved12.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i60.************/1zh1oop.jpg[/IMG]
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Old October 5th, 2014, 12:12 AM   #220
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[IMG]http://i62.************/s5h6jr.jpg[/IMG]
Free shuttle
[IMG]http://i58.************/e5mxxx.jpg[/IMG]
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₪₪₪[Świat] „Przebłyski pamięci”₪₪₪Moja Ameryka - nie tylko Stany
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