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Old April 16th, 2013, 08:58 PM   #121
Slartibartfas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
It inconvenience other passengers too much, and US commuter train system need seating capacity (if passengers have to stand, many will just drive).
One bike corner reduces seat capacity maybe by one seat as optional side seats can be still available. Given, that this same corner could also accommodate baggies, luggage or wheel chairs it seems a reasonable thing to offer at least one of them. I doubt the main problem of commuter trains in the US is to accommodate an exploding number of people but rather to make the system as attractive as possible for as many as possible.
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Old April 16th, 2013, 09:05 PM   #122
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I sometimes take my bike on the train to work in peak hours, and there are often several others doing the same. It can be a pain when the trains are really busy, both for the cyclist and the other passengers but generally it doesn't seem to be a major problem.
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Old April 18th, 2013, 04:35 AM   #123
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Well they could always add a separate rail car for bike storage since that is how Copenhagen's S-Tog commuter rail system solved the problem of accommodating bike riders.
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Old April 29th, 2013, 01:43 AM   #124
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The West Line finally opened to the public Friday, with regular service beginning this Sunday.

http://www.rtd-fastracks.com/wc_202
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Old May 1st, 2013, 07:32 PM   #126
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http://denverurbanism.com/2013/04/al...ine-opens.html



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Old May 1st, 2013, 11:18 PM   #127
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There is some long sections with only one track as I see in the video.
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Old May 2nd, 2013, 05:50 AM   #128
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There is some long sections with only one track as I see in the video.
Yeah, to save money RTD decided to make many sections single track between Federal Center and Jeffco Government Center with reduced frequency.

Last edited by diablo234; May 2nd, 2013 at 05:58 AM.
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Old May 3rd, 2013, 01:56 AM   #129
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Do we know if there's enough ROW along the various for double tracking in the future if necessary?
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Old May 3rd, 2013, 02:01 AM   #130
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Yeah, to save money RTD decided to make many sections single track between Federal Center and Jeffco Government Center with reduced frequency.
What is the peak frequency ?
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Old May 3rd, 2013, 02:11 AM   #131
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What is the peak frequency ?
4 trains per hour between Jefferson County Gov. and Federal Center (2 stations)

8 trans per hours the rest of the line

Full schedule: http://www3.rtd-denver.com/schedules...&serviceType=3
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Old May 4th, 2013, 04:59 AM   #132
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I see that they gave up on the G trains connecting the ends of the I-25 and I-225 lines. Can't say I'm surprised at that. too bad they spent all that money on a grade-separated light rail interchange at the I-25-I-225 junction.

From the first page of the thread:


I suppose they'll try it again once the I-225 line is extended.

I'm also unpleasantly surprised at how poorly the West line connects with the rest of the system-- getting from the west line to the high-rise core requires two transfers, one of them about a mile out of the way and in a dicey-looking part of town. Perhaps at some point full three-way wyes could be added along with a transfer station at Curtis and 5th Streets. Admittedly, working around or rebuilding the Colfax Avenue Viaduct would be a challenge...

To me it seems odd that RTD would provide elaborately for a rather marginal-looking suburb-to-suburb connection but not for what ought to be a major axis through the city's core. WTF?

EDIT: I'll say something positive now: Peak service is 18 trains per hour! Here's I-25/Broadway northbound in the morning:

F 8:01
D 8:04
E 8:07
H 8:10
D 8:13

F 8:16
D 8:19
C 8:22
H 8:25
F 8:31

D 8:34
E 8:37
H 8:40
D 8:43
F 8:46

D 8:49
C 8:52
H 8:55

I wish MARTA did that!

Last edited by Tom 958; May 4th, 2013 at 05:47 AM.
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Old May 4th, 2013, 10:46 PM   #133
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Quote:
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I'm also unpleasantly surprised at how poorly the West line connects with the rest of the system-- getting from the west line to the high-rise core requires two transfers, one of them about a mile out of the way and in a dicey-looking part of town. Perhaps at some point full three-way wyes could be added along with a transfer station at Curtis and 5th Streets. Admittedly, working around or rebuilding the Colfax Avenue Viaduct would be a challenge...
Why would anyone traveling on the W Line need to make three transfers when they could just get off at Union Station and take the 16th Street Shuttle?
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Old May 4th, 2013, 10:50 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
4 trains per hour between Jefferson County Gov. and Federal Center (2 stations)

8 trans per hours the rest of the line

Full schedule: http://www3.rtd-denver.com/schedules...&serviceType=3
It is better than what I expected.
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Old May 5th, 2013, 12:07 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diablo234 View Post
Why would anyone traveling on the W Line need to make three transfers when they could just get off at Union Station and take the 16th Street Shuttle?
I didn't say three transfers-- I said two. I admit, though- I was being too pessimistic. In fact, the 16th Street Shuttle would allow that trip to be made with only one transfer, and it serves some high-rise areas that aren't on the California/Stout loop. Getting to the Weldon Street line or the Denver CC area would require two, though. With the wyes I mentioned, none would be required, at least for some trips.

EDIT: Somewhere on the internet there's a raucous debate about the situation, but this is all I've found so far: http://denverurbanism.com/2011/07/au...iguration.html . FWIW, of the several commenters who mention the situation, none defend the current configuration, though one says that the downtown Stout/California loop is already at capacity and couldn't accept West line trains even if there were an efficient way of routing them there.

There's a map (click to view-- it's really big) showing how the connections are today, too, made before construction began. Note that the eastern wye was there, and there was space for the western one, too, but the line was moved after its initial construction in order to place the Auraria West Campus station where it is.

Last edited by Tom 958; May 5th, 2013 at 09:51 PM. Reason: added stuff
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Old May 5th, 2013, 09:09 PM   #136
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Well that was one of the reasons why they rerouted the W Line away from California/Stout because of capacity issues. Anyways given that the East Corridor, Gold Line, and North Lines are expected to serve Union Station it makes sense to reroute the line there (however Denver would probably be better off if they built the downtown segment underground ala Edmonton or Pittsburgh to resolve any capacity issues but cest la vie).
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Old May 6th, 2013, 02:43 AM   #137
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Well that was one of the reasons why they rerouted the W Line away from California/Stout because of capacity issues.
That and the near-certainty that with 18 trains per hour on the Central Line, operations at two adjacent at-grade wyes would be a fustercluck.

Quote:
Anyways given that the East Corridor, Gold Line, and North Lines are expected to serve Union Station it makes sense to reroute the line there (however Denver would probably be better off if they built the downtown segment underground ala Edmonton or Pittsburgh to resolve any capacity issues but cest la vie).
Which brings me to item 2: Why don't they extend the LRT all the way to Union Station instead of stopping it three blocks away? It'd be unfortunate but understandable if buildings had been in the way, but the entire area has been cleared for redevelopment. Throw in a turnaround for the all-important 16th Street Shuttle, too: As it stands, it looks as though shuttle riders will need to cross 16th street to board it.

In Denver I read the usual blather about "a seamless intermodal transit system," but this seam is three blocks wide, and right at one of the system's most critical junctions. WTF?
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Old May 6th, 2013, 08:34 AM   #138
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Quote:
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That and the near-certainty that with 18 trains per hour on the Central Line, operations at two adjacent at-grade wyes would be a fustercluck.



Which brings me to item 2: Why don't they extend the LRT all the way to Union Station instead of stopping it three blocks away? It'd be unfortunate but understandable if buildings had been in the way, but the entire area has been cleared for redevelopment. Throw in a turnaround for the all-important 16th Street Shuttle, too: As it stands, it looks as though shuttle riders will need to cross 16th street to board it.

In Denver I read the usual blather about "a seamless intermodal transit system," but this seam is three blocks wide, and right at one of the system's most critical junctions. WTF?
The light rail stop used to be right where they are building the new train canopy. They moved it to avoid the jog the trains used to have to make to get to the main line and to make room for the new 3 block long underground bus depot. The white canopy you see right next to the station is the entrance to the bus depot. And the entrance to the 16th street mall shuttle is right at the station as well.
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Old May 6th, 2013, 01:08 PM   #139
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The light rail stop used to be right where they are building the new train canopy. They moved it to avoid the jog the trains used to have to make to get to the main line and to make room for the new 3 block long underground bus depot. The white canopy you see right next to the station is the entrance to the bus depot. And the entrance to the 16th street mall shuttle is right at the station as well.
That's interesting-- I didn't know about the station being moved.

I also received this informative reply at http://denverurbanism.com/ :

Hi Tom. Thanks for your comment!

The Union Station Transit District is comprised of three elements, the Light Rail Station, the underground Regional Bus Facility, and the Commuter Rail/Amtrak Station. The distance between the Light Rail platforms and the Commuter Rail platforms is 800 feet–not three blocks. That distance, 150-feet shorter than one-half the length of the A/B/C/D/E concourses at Atlanta Hartsfield International Airport, can be traversed one of three ways: 1.) Walk at street level through the 17th Street Gardens, 2.) Take the Mall Shuttle from the Light Rail Station to the next stop at the end of the Commuter Rail station (roughly 16th and Wewatta), or 3.) Go into the Chestnut Pavilion at the Light Rail Station and walk underground through the Pedestrian Concourse inside the Bus Facility, emerging up into the Wewatta Pavilion directly next to the Commuter Rail Station or up into the Union Station Pavilion right at the door to the historic station. The underground bus facility stretches the entire length of the transit district–it’s below both the Light Rail and Commuter Rail stations. Based on the average adult walking speed of 3 MPH, the time to walk from Light Rail to Commuter Rail is approximately 3-4 minutes.

As I alluded to above, there will be a 16th Street Mall Shuttle stop directly at the end of the Commuter Rail Station (roughly 16th and Wewatta), 175 feet from the end of the Commuter Rail platforms, so boarding the Mall Shuttle from the Commuter Rail trains will be a snap.

As to why everything isn’t all stacked on top of each other right behind the historic station… not only did that plan alternative have an approximate $1 billion price tag that the project couldn’t afford, but it ultimately had engineering issues that the federal government nixed due to safety issues. There’s no room for the Light Rail, which crosses over 15th Street and Cherry Creek just one block south of the Light Rail Station, to do a sharp turn and get closer to the Commuter Rail Station without some major restructuring of the whole street grid just for a few hundred feet. Also, RTD has determined that a fraction (less than 10%) of travelers will actually be making the Light Rail-to-Commuter Rail mode transfer. Most people will be arriving/departing via one mode or the other to or from Downtown as a pedestrian or via the Mall Shuttle.

The Union Station Transit District plan also includes a new 16th Street Mall Shuttle-like service called the Downtown Circulator, a major bicycle facility, space for taxis and pedicabs, and three major public plazas. I hope that explanation helps.


I still think that 800 feet is too long, but the underground connection helps. And the Downtown Circulator will parttly address the too-many-transfers issue I brought up in post 112.

Last edited by Tom 958; May 6th, 2013 at 01:43 PM. Reason: typo
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