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Old October 21st, 2013, 11:43 AM   #161
Nouvellecosse
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Toronto's airport line will be electric. They just don't have time to do the electrification before the Pan Am games so it will operate initially as diesel before the conversion.
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Old October 21st, 2013, 04:29 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Probably those trains are rather designed for little to no standing passangers in regular service. The lack of holding grips along the aisles suggests that.

I also don't know if the design is so apropriate for a new system but I can understand if they want to make the system look more "classic" than it actually is.

Anyway, I am congratulating Denver for what they are doing with Fastracks, especialliy in regards to the airport connection. This rail link will put Denver in some spheres of efficient attractive airport links that many, or even most, US cities can only dream of.
I think it's dumb that we still use "classical" designs from 1970's in 21th century.

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Old October 21st, 2013, 08:43 PM   #163
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Well, its a matter of preferences. Personally I would prefer a modern design but I am not dogmatic about it.
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Old October 21st, 2013, 11:04 PM   #164
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The design looks rather handsome to me! But then again, my biggest concern is that they be comfortable, efficient, and reliable.
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Old October 22nd, 2013, 02:15 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Toronto's airport line will be electric. They just don't have time to do the electrification before the Pan Am games so it will operate initially as diesel before the conversion.
And he'll never ride it, since he lives in BC!
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Old October 22nd, 2013, 03:07 AM   #166
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Quote:
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I think it's dumb that we still use "classical" designs from 1970's in 21th century.
The trains will be in service for 30 years, or perhaps even longer. Regardless of how modern the trains look today, they will start to look old long before they are retired.

I think about the PCCs that I used to ride everyday on the Green Line in Boston. Boston received its first PCCs in the 1930s. They were already past normal retirement age when I lived there in the 1980s. Some of the those PCCs are still in service today on the Mattapan High Speed Line.

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Old October 22nd, 2013, 01:33 PM   #167
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How did I miss this? A Grand Gateway for Denver’s Transit Users

The Transport Politic's proprietor, Yonah Freemark, is down with the Union Station concept as developed, though there's quite a bit of dissent among the commenters. The question is moot now-- I just hope the concept performs as well as the optimists think it will.

One interesting observation: "According to initial estimates, the vast majority of users will not be transferring: During a typical peak hour, only about 1,000 people will be connecting between light and commuter rail, versus the 14,000 disembarking from trains overall." Maybe the rail-to-rail transfer aspect isn't as critical as I and others think.

The underground bus concourse will be very airport-like, with spare decor, moving sidewalks, and glass partitions to keep most of the diesel fumes out of the concourse itself.

So, when's it gonna open?
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Old October 22nd, 2013, 05:40 PM   #168
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I've only visited Denver once, but it seems that the Light Rail at Union Station primarily serves the outer neighborhoods but doesn't go into the core. So I would imagine most of the commuter rail riders will transfer to the 16th St or 18th/19th St shuttles or walk to the core. I do believe some sort of underground corridor is supposed to link the commuter rail, buses, and light rail, so some connectivity is certainly planned.
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Old November 30th, 2013, 07:51 PM   #169
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Photos of what Denver Union Station canopy will look like at night:

http://denverinfill.com/blog/2013/11...pdate-123.html

Very impressive!
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 05:06 AM   #170
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Some photos of Union Station in Denver courtesy of RyanD on Skyscraperpage.

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Old March 3rd, 2014, 05:47 AM   #171
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The faux platform cover on the right side in the last picture bugs me. Its like they went for style not substance, in a city where it snows a lot. Also the asymmetry hurts the integrity of the design. Its just blah.
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 06:01 AM   #172
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 06:14 PM   #173
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The faux platform cover on the right side in the last picture bugs me. Its like they went for style not substance, in a city where it snows a lot. Also the asymmetry hurts the integrity of the design. Its just blah.
Denver does not really get much snow in comparison with locations in the mountains and what ever snow it does get usually melts away in a few hours thanks to the Chinooks which blow hot air out of the mountains. So I think the platform cover would work well in that scenario.
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Old March 4th, 2014, 07:54 PM   #174
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Look at it more as a small part of a very large real estate development that took more than two decades to flesh out and you get a better idea of what this actually is. This was not designed prior to about 100 hectares being pre-zoned by developers- this was put in the smallest area possible and has many defects as a result.

I am more afraid of the cold shade in the winter than the snow- although spring snows can be a pain in Denver.

Problems will turn up in the future as there will be no room for expansion without huge investments.
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Old March 4th, 2014, 09:37 PM   #175
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Are those platforms finished already? If so, it is really a pity that they went for an asymmetrical and rather dysfunctional platform roof design. It should be good practice of any platform to have a roof. At least if costs allow it and given the entire platform design I doubt that costs were the problem.

But don't get me wrong. I am very delighted of the project in general.

Any ideas how one could cope with the expansion dilemma? What would be the best solution there, based on what you've got now. Going underground? A new station further outwards?
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Old March 4th, 2014, 09:40 PM   #176
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Here you can look at the initial design: http://www.rtd-fastracks.com/gallery...95&section=dus

It was simplified and dumbed-down, as they often do in these projects.
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Old March 5th, 2014, 07:30 AM   #177
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Quote:
Look at it more as a small part of a very large real estate development that took more than two decades to flesh out and you get a better idea of what this actually is. This was not designed prior to about 100 hectares being pre-zoned by developers- this was put in the smallest area possible and has many defects as a result.
I'm actually familiar with the history of this project.

There were many designs put forth and I remember vividly an extremely ambitious one from around 2006 or 2007 when FasTracks was passed that envisioned large ultra modern high rises over an underground platform with a kind of glass and steel "net" roof. It looked more like the new SF Transbay Terminal.

It is impressive what has been built, don't get me wrong.
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Old March 5th, 2014, 08:27 PM   #178
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I'm actually familiar with the history of this project.

There were many designs put forth and I remember vividly an extremely ambitious one from around 2006 or 2007 when FasTracks was passed that envisioned large ultra modern high rises over an underground platform with a kind of glass and steel "net" roof. It looked more like the new SF Transbay Terminal.

It is impressive what has been built, don't get me wrong.
I am sure the site problem started long before you worked with RTD. The problem was the layout of the properties after being divided up by the biggest stockholder of the railroad then later sold to multiple entities, years prior to those plans made by the two final competing development consortiums that you saw.

This is a common practice, I bet.
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Old March 5th, 2014, 08:41 PM   #179
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Here you can look at the initial design: http://www.rtd-fastracks.com/gallery...95&section=dus

It was simplified and dumbed-down, as they often do in these projects.
Vienna main station was also simplified compared to early renders, substantially in fact. But no one would have ever got the idea of cancelling the platform roof. The Berliner main station actually saw the roof of its upper platform shortened, that means some outer parts are not covered. But no one would have dared to keep entire platforms unprotected. Skipping platform roofs is a design flaw only second to leaving out the rail tracks.

The canapy looks great but also totally dysfunctional. Don't get me wrong, design and appearence is important and that is why I think its a nice thing to have. But that does not mean skipping some of the most fundamental functions of a station is a very clever thing. I don't know how much it rains and snows in Denver but it certainly does and every single day it does the people will be beyond annoyed. But good news is that it seems very easy to retrofit the platforms once the authorities change their mind. And they will. As soon as some regular passangers have to use it and the weather turns sour. The outcry won't stop until there's a rain/snow protection on every platform
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Old March 5th, 2014, 08:51 PM   #180
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Denver Climatology

Code:
MONTH Av. MAX  Av. MIN   Avg.     Precip      ABS MAXIMUM      ABS MINIMUM
Jan	8C	-9C	0C	16.3 mm	26C (1982)	-29C (1984)
Feb	9C	-8C	1C	18.5 mm	25C (1982)	-31C (1989)
Mar	13C	-4C	5C	47.8 mm	29C (1986)	-22C (2002)
Apr	17C	1C	9C	55.9 mm	33C (1992)	-16C (1997)
May	22C	6C	14C	65.0 mm	36C (2003)	-6C (1989)
Jun	27C	10C	19C	52.1 mm	39C (1990)	1C (1998)
Jul	31C	13C	22C	42.7 mm	39C (1990)	4C (1987)
Aug	30C	12C	21C	51.1 mm	39C (2002)	3C (1992)
Sep	26C	7C	16C	28.7 mm	38C (1990)	-10C (1985)
Oct	19C	1C	10C	36.3 mm	34C (1991)	-17C (1993)
Nov	12C	-5C	4C	27.7 mm	29C (1990)	-21C (1993)
Dec	8C	-9C	-1C	21.1 mm	24C (1998)	-31C (1990)
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