Tampa Bay Rail Discussion - Page 12

randommichael · August 4th, 2008, 04:34 PM

Too bad Tampa didn't actually plan this in advance.

Jasonhouse · August 4th, 2008, 05:06 PM

^First, we have to have a local citizenry which is capable of understanding that just because they have no education doesn't mean that we can't have government leaders who do.

Typical Tampa attitude: Planning is for uppity intellectual types who just want to tell everyone else what to do! This is TAMPA! We do it our way, and if we screw up a few times before we get it right, or maybe we never even get it right at all, so what? At least we didn't have to admit to any smart people that they were right all along!

JBrisco · August 4th, 2008, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasonhouse

Typical Tampa attitude: Planning is for uppity intellectual types who just want to tell everyone else what to do! This is TAMPA! We do it our way, and if we screw up a few times before we get it right, or maybe we never even get it right at all, so what? At least we didn't have to admit to any smart people that they were right all along!

Its true, look how much construction we have going on, even though the whole country is in a recession, including the state, city, and county. Lol I believe Tampa doesn't care whats going on it does what it wants.

DShenise · August 4th, 2008, 07:53 PM

I know the Hard Rock is outside the city limits, but imagine if you were of the partying sort and you wanted a killer night out. Imagine starting at Westshore Plaza for a nice dinner at Mitchell's (leaving your car in the garage of parking lot), then taking LTR to Ybor to hit the club of the moment, then on to the Hard Rock for some gambling and more partying, stay the night, take the train back in the morning. Ideally we think about rail and transit for mundane things like getting to work, taking 2-8% of the cars off the road, etc. But sometimes having rail available really helps in the secondary, fun aspects of life.

JBrisco · August 4th, 2008, 10:30 PM

That's one hundred percent true!!!

HARTride 2012 · August 4th, 2008, 10:31 PM

We also need to get rid of fools like Saul-Sena who don't know how to plan ANYTHING right...

TampaMike · August 4th, 2008, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBrisco

Its true, look how much construction we have going on, even though the whole country is in a recession, including the state, city, and county. Lol I believe Tampa doesn't care whats going on it does what it wants.

That's not the City, that's the companies. Certainly Tampa doesn't have their hands on Element or Seaboard Square. Novare and them are some of the few who put dedication into their work. They fear disappointing the people and the city they're in. So they go with it even it means alittle more outta their wallets. And that's what makes them successful, because of their dedication to their projects.

But back on topic. I think it's good that Iorio is putting her foot out first. The whole rail system doesn't need to come at once. It takes time for everything to come into place. NYC rail sytem didn't come at once, same with Chicago, same with London's, and same with any other rail system I can think of. But if Pinellas and Hillsborough can get the funded in the same time, than there's no excuse why they can't connect the two at the same time. But if Hillsborough gets their act together before Pinellas, than Hillsborough doesn't need to wait for everyone else to be on the same page.

And if anyone even travels through Tampa once or twice, they will agree that Tampa shouldn't wait for everyone else. Basically, it's now or never. If Tampa has to wait patiently for every other county to get funded, than everything will fall through again. I say Iorio calls a meeting with TBARTA, show them a plan for Tampa's rail system, show them every area where another country or city can connect with the rail, tell them that Tampa needs this worse than ever, tell them that the city will to assist in the TBARTA, and say that Tampa's going with it without any opposition from them.

I would also sit with the mayors of St. Pete and Clearwater after that meaning and show them Tampa's plan again. Credit them for their work towards a regional rail plan. Promise to them that Tampa is 100% dedicated to a regional rail plan. Also, tell them that the city is willing to help them come up with a rail plan for their cities in any way possible.

Than meet with each county TBARTA members. Go over the Tampa plan again. Tell them this isn't a way of brushing them off, just that Tampa just can't wait for the whole area to come up with a plan when they are already at the stage of structuring. Telll them that you have met with St. Pete and Clearwater mayors and promise them help with their rail system aswell. Suggest to them that TBARTA should focus on connecting Tampa to St. Pete, St. Pete to Clearwater, and Clearwater to Tampa first and than focus on a regional wide system.

Cooperation is the key in this. If Tampa doesn't show they are still dedicated to a Tampa Bay wide rail system, than we'll end up where we were 20 years ago and I don't think that's what any here wants to see.

JBrisco · August 5th, 2008, 05:43 AM

I wasn't knocking anything, I was just sayin' we kinda do our own thing as Tampainians regardless of whats going on around us.

HARTride 2012 · August 5th, 2008, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pres_of_2036

Cooperation is the key in this. If Tampa doesn't show they are still dedicated to a Tampa Bay wide rail system, than we'll end up where we were 20 years ago and I don't think that's what any here wants to see.

Yes, yes, and...yes. TBARTA will surely fail without cooperation from all surrounding counties.

DShenise · August 6th, 2008, 07:31 PM

They should coorperate, but someone has to get their foot out of their own ass and do something. I fear TBARTA is just another opportunity to pass the buck and not accomplish anything. Let Tampa build their system and it'll force (hopefully) decisions in other areas.

HARTride 2012 · August 7th, 2008, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DShenise

I fear TBARTA is just another opportunity to pass the buck and not accomplish anything.

And instead, build lousy toll roads to nowhere....

tampasteve · August 7th, 2008, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wslupecki

And instead, build lousy toll roads to nowhere....

Don't you mean "managed lanes?"

We can only hope that the feds do not re-classify HOV/HOVT lanes as fixed guideway transit like they are trying to do. That would almost certainly doom Tampa to getting more toll roads and less transit. Toll roads for transit applications are a faulty idea, IMO. Why would I want to pay MORE to still DRIVE to work? Roads for the rich is all they are.

Steve

TampaMike · August 7th, 2008, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DShenise

They should coorperate, but someone has to get their foot out of their own ass and do something. I fear TBARTA is just another opportunity to pass the buck and not accomplish anything. Let Tampa build their system and it'll force (hopefully) decisions in other areas.

That's what I'm saying, if they dont start crapping their pants and allow Tampa to be the "leader" of mass transit, than they can see why rail is such a needed asset to the whole area. It will show the economical impact aswell as the overall support of many of the residents not just in Tampa, but surrounding counties.

We all know this won't be a one step project and the area leaders shouldn't be pushing for it to be. We gotta take this in steps and not cram everything at once because if we do, it will just collapse on itself. First focus on Tampa, than connecting the major cities, and than start railing the counties and coming up with other transit solutions.

HARTride 2012 · August 8th, 2008, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tampasteve

Don't you mean "managed lanes?"

We can only hope that the feds do not re-classify HOV/HOVT lanes as fixed guideway transit like they are trying to do. That would almost certainly doom Tampa to getting more toll roads and less transit. Toll roads for transit applications are a faulty idea, IMO. Why would I want to pay MORE to still DRIVE to work? Roads for the rich is all they are.

Steve

What? Where did you hear this? This is extremely lousy, just like all levels of govt not keeping up on bridge maintenance...

tampasteve · August 8th, 2008, 10:27 PM

Well, I read it on www.lightrailnow.org but you can supposedly find it buried in Here (but I did not read it all, though I probably should).

Steve

CubanBread · August 9th, 2008, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tampasteve

Well, I read it on www.lightrailnow.org but you can supposedly find it buried in Here (but I did not read it all, though I probably should).

Steve

So I just went to LRN.com ... and Apparently Norfolk Virgina will be getting Light rail by 2010 ...WHAT THE F*CK MAN!

Nofolk is getting Light rail before us? ... our best bet is that we get a referendum by 2010.

Ridiculous.

TampaMike · August 9th, 2008, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CubanBread

So I just went to LRN.com ... and Apparently Norfolk Virgina will be getting Light rail by 2010 ...WHAT THE F*CK MAN!

Nofolk is getting Light rail before us? ... our best bet is that we get a referendum by 2010.

Ridiculous.

Politics bro. If one doesnt have their head up their ass, than certainly another one does. Its not like we're asking for them to hold hands and sing happy songs around a campfire, we just want a rail system. And still, someone needs to screw it up. We screwed ourselves over 20 years ago because of the same crap that is going on now.

tampasteve · August 9th, 2008, 02:27 PM

True. We were in this place 20 years ago, and we were even closer 6 years ago...this time it is up to us and our leaders to NOT screw it up again. One thing that people do seem to forget though is that we already have an almost 3 mle starter line in DT, it just currently happens to only run heritage style cars and be geared towards tourists.

Steve

HARTride 2012 · August 9th, 2008, 03:51 PM

Yes, we can't screw up now. We need to get our government going on this. We need to either push the idiots who don't know how to properly plan to move forward with a good rail plan, or get rid of them and replace them with people who know what they're doing.

Jasonhouse · August 9th, 2008, 07:23 PM

That's why the trolley needs to be run up to the Cass/Tyler area of dt, not just up to Whiting... At least then, it should be able to connect to whatever system would be used to link DT to Westshore/airport and USF/New Tampa.

And btw... Why doesn't the city simply start out expanding the trolley downtown into the loop it needs to be, and then run LRT out to Westshore/Airport, where another circulator could be set up... The DT trolley expansion would probably be something like $75-100mil, and the line to the airport being another few hundred mil. That kind of cost could be doable... The point of this being, the backbone of the system could be run through a part of town where the most growth will probably be concentrated at first, and now all other future lines would have their connecting point. (it's been clear for years now that a Westshore/TIA to DT/Ybor axis is going to be the central backbone of any regional rail system, because this is where the highest concentration of jobs is in the region)

August 4th, 2008, 10:31 PM	#226
HARTride 2012 Let's go... Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 10,146 Likes (Received): 34	We also need to get rid of fools like Saul-Sena who don't know how to plan ANYTHING right... __________________ Public Transit As Told By HARTride 2012 - Public Transit told from a unique perspective! - Tampa Bay, New York City, Hampton Roads, Europe \| Follow me on Twitter \| "Like" my page on Facebook

August 8th, 2008, 10:27 PM	#235
tampasteve Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Tampa Posts: 2,369 Likes (Received): 5	Well, I read it on www.lightrailnow.org but you can supposedly find it buried in Here (but I did not read it all, though I probably should). Steve __________________ Homer: Face it, Marge, Catholics rule! We got Boston, South America, the good part of Ireland, and we're makin' serious inroads in Mozambique, baby! "My badger's gonna unleash hell on your ass. Badgertastic!"

August 9th, 2008, 02:27 PM	#238
tampasteve Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Tampa Posts: 2,369 Likes (Received): 5	True. We were in this place 20 years ago, and we were even closer 6 years ago...this time it is up to us and our leaders to NOT screw it up again. One thing that people do seem to forget though is that we already have an almost 3 mle starter line in DT, it just currently happens to only run heritage style cars and be geared towards tourists. Steve __________________ Homer: Face it, Marge, Catholics rule! We got Boston, South America, the good part of Ireland, and we're makin' serious inroads in Mozambique, baby! "My badger's gonna unleash hell on your ass. Badgertastic!"

August 9th, 2008, 03:51 PM	#239
HARTride 2012 Let's go... Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 10,146 Likes (Received): 34	Yes, we can't screw up now. We need to get our government going on this. We need to either push the idiots who don't know how to properly plan to move forward with a good rail plan, or get rid of them and replace them with people who know what they're doing. __________________ Public Transit As Told By HARTride 2012 - Public Transit told from a unique perspective! - Tampa Bay, New York City, Hampton Roads, Europe \| Follow me on Twitter \| "Like" my page on Facebook

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August 4th, 2008, 04:34 PM	#221
randommichael Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,414 Likes (Received): 0	Too bad Tampa didn't actually plan this in advance.

August 4th, 2008, 05:06 PM	#222
Jasonhouse Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12,318 Likes (Received): 8	^First, we have to have a local citizenry which is capable of understanding that just because they have no education doesn't mean that we can't have government leaders who do. Typical Tampa attitude: Planning is for uppity intellectual types who just want to tell everyone else what to do! This is TAMPA! We do it our way, and if we screw up a few times before we get it right, or maybe we never even get it right at all, so what? At least we didn't have to admit to any smart people that they were right all along!

August 4th, 2008, 07:53 PM	#224
DShenise Designer, 1404designs Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Santa Monica Posts: 1,133 Likes (Received): 0	I know the Hard Rock is outside the city limits, but imagine if you were of the partying sort and you wanted a killer night out. Imagine starting at Westshore Plaza for a nice dinner at Mitchell's (leaving your car in the garage of parking lot), then taking LTR to Ybor to hit the club of the moment, then on to the Hard Rock for some gambling and more partying, stay the night, take the train back in the morning. Ideally we think about rail and transit for mundane things like getting to work, taking 2-8% of the cars off the road, etc. But sometimes having rail available really helps in the secondary, fun aspects of life.

August 4th, 2008, 10:30 PM	#225
JBrisco USF Architecture Student Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tampa, FLA Posts: 1,525 Likes (Received): 0	That's one hundred percent true!!!

August 5th, 2008, 05:43 AM	#228
JBrisco USF Architecture Student Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tampa, FLA Posts: 1,525 Likes (Received): 0	I wasn't knocking anything, I was just sayin' we kinda do our own thing as Tampainians regardless of whats going on around us.

August 6th, 2008, 07:31 PM	#230
DShenise Designer, 1404designs Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Santa Monica Posts: 1,133 Likes (Received): 0	They should coorperate, but someone has to get their foot out of their own ass and do something. I fear TBARTA is just another opportunity to pass the buck and not accomplish anything. Let Tampa build their system and it'll force (hopefully) decisions in other areas.

August 9th, 2008, 07:23 PM	#240
Jasonhouse Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12,318 Likes (Received): 8	That's why the trolley needs to be run up to the Cass/Tyler area of dt, not just up to Whiting... At least then, it should be able to connect to whatever system would be used to link DT to Westshore/airport and USF/New Tampa. And btw... Why doesn't the city simply start out expanding the trolley downtown into the loop it needs to be, and then run LRT out to Westshore/Airport, where another circulator could be set up... The DT trolley expansion would probably be something like $75-100mil, and the line to the airport being another few hundred mil. That kind of cost could be doable... The point of this being, the backbone of the system could be run through a part of town where the most growth will probably be concentrated at first, and now all other future lines would have their connecting point. (it's been clear for years now that a Westshore/TIA to DT/Ybor axis is going to be the central backbone of any regional rail system, because this is where the highest concentration of jobs is in the region)