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Old August 25th, 2012, 05:53 PM   #81
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Following societies partipated to differents studies :

Quote:
Janvier 2009

Les Sociétés SNED et SECEG ont organisé, à Madrid les 7 et 8 janvier 2009, une rencontre sur l’évaluation globale du projet, en présence des experts des Groupements de Bureaux d'Etudes suivants :

Groupement chargé de l'Etude d'Evaluation globale du Projet, composé de Systra (France), Amberg (Suisse) et Cowi (Danemark) ;

Groupement chargé de « l’actualisation de l'étude d’Avant Projet Primaire-1996 (APP-07 », composé des Bureaux Lombardi (Suisse), Geodata (Italie), Typsa (Espagne) et Ingema (Maroc) ;

Groupement chargé de « l’Etude de Prévision des Trafic (EPT) et du bilan économique et financier (BEF) », composé des Bureaux Ineco (Espagne), Setec (France) et CID (Maroc) ;

Groupement chargé de « l’Etude des Effets Régionaux du Projet (EER)», composé de Mcrit (Espagne), Nestear (France), LESEC-UPC (Espagne), Brasel (Espagne) et Ecole Hassania des Travaux Publiques (Maroc).

Le séminaire a permis aux différents intervenants d'échanger leurs avis sur les points pertinents et sensibles des études réalisées jusqu'à présent
http://www.sned.gov.ma/
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Old August 25th, 2012, 05:53 PM   #82
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Old August 25th, 2012, 05:54 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadiri View Post
By nwusaad






-----------------------------

By nwusaad

http://www.secegsa.com/frances.wmv

Imagine Tarifa to Tangiers in 30minutes. After this period you are in different city, country, and continent! The presentation is great...
The video makes it seem that it doable project and that it is not as challenging as we thought it would be.

Projections:
1- Maximum train speed: 120km/hr
2- Time necessary from one terminal to the other: 30minutes

Phase I initial annual capacity
1- 1.6million tourism cars.
2- 500000 heavy weight trucks
3- 5 million car passengers
4- 11 million individual train passengers

Final Phase annual capacity after Extension(if judged necessary)
1- 50 million passengers
2- 100 million vehicules
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadiri View Post
2 bridges options where suggest :



What bridge wasn't choose :



Why tunnel was choose :


An other bridge project




The idea is to mixed 2 bridges models :



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Old August 25th, 2012, 06:15 PM   #84
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Nice posts, but what progress is being made?
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Old August 25th, 2012, 06:34 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33Hz View Post
Nice posts, but what progress is being made?
There is no progress, probably this project will be made in over a hundred years.
Nowadays there is no kind of investment from Europe and specially Spain.
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Old August 25th, 2012, 07:21 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33Hz View Post
Nice posts, but what progress is being made?
Phase 0 : made the reconnaissance tube, that will be after service tube (like Eurotunnel)
Phase 1 : build West tube for both 2 directions Morocco/Spain and Spain/Morocco
Phase 2 : build East tube when traffic will increase

Now we are in phase 0 and 860m were dug in 2004, so 3,06% of the 28,100m tube service.

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Experimental galery of Tarifa





We are at the "phase 0" :



Quote:
In 2004

A retenir :
- 300m creusés côté marocain / 300m dig from Morocco- 560m creusés côté espagnol / 560m dig from Spain- coût estimé entre 3 et 10 milliards d'euros / between 3 & 10 billions euros

Le tunnel sous la manche a coûté 4,6 milliards d'euros pour 50,5 km dont 37km sous la mer.

Quote:
Tunnel sous la Manche

Longueur : 50,5 km.
Durée des travaux : six ans
Coût des travaux : 4,6 milliards d’euros.
Vitesse moyenne de construction : 23 mètres par jour.
Coût du mètre : 91 089 euros.
http://www.ps83.fr/TOULON-Le-Tunnel-le-plus-cher-du

Quote:


secegsa.gob.es
La longeur entre les puits est de 28 100m.

300m ont été creusés côté marocain et 560m côté espagnol.

3,06 % de la distance (entre les puits) a déjà été creusé./ 3,06% of distance has been dig.
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Old August 25th, 2012, 08:26 PM   #87
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Sorry, but just where's the trade, incentive for this bore ...
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Old August 26th, 2012, 12:58 AM   #88
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Isn't the center of the Strait a Fault line ?
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Old August 26th, 2012, 01:39 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
Isn't the center of the Strait a Fault line ?
Yes, it is.
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Old August 26th, 2012, 09:03 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
Yes, it is.
So boring would be suicidal....
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Old August 26th, 2012, 09:07 PM   #91
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There is a very similar fault structure under the English Channel.
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Old August 26th, 2012, 09:59 PM   #92
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So they bored 860m of the reconnaissance tunnel in 2004 but haven't made any progress since then? Any idea of the cost of the reconnaissance tunnel per km?
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Old August 26th, 2012, 10:44 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
So boring would be suicidal....
Well, not necessarily, in Istanbul they´ve done it under the Bosporus.
Under the Bosporus there´s a fault, that separates two tectonic plates, running under the strait that divides one of Europe/Asia´s biggest cities.

Boring a tunnel under the Strait of Gibraltar would be very expensive, but not much different then a tunnel under the Bosporus.
But a tunnel under the Bosporus in Istanbul will always be used by many more people than a tunnel under the Strait of Gibraltar.

I doubt Spain, the UK, nor Morocco can seriously think about it as the cost would be scandalous.
At least for now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 33Hz View Post
There is a very similar fault structure under the English Channel.
NO!!!

There is no main tectonic plate under the English Channel.
There might be a fault, but not a change of tectonic plate.

Last edited by 437.001; August 26th, 2012 at 11:02 PM.
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Old August 27th, 2012, 03:28 AM   #94
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The Bosporus Tunnel is not bored but an Immersed Tunnel which is recommended for Earthquake areas...which why it was used for the BART Tunnel in San Francisco...
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Old August 27th, 2012, 03:30 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
The Bosporus Tunnel is not bored but an Immersed Tunnel which is recommended for Earthquake areas...which why it was used for the BART Tunnel in San Francisco...
An immersed tunnel? Didn´t know. Thanks.
I guess then that if they ever did something in the Strait of Gibraltar it would be this.
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Old August 27th, 2012, 07:18 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis

So boring would be suicidal....
Wanna bet you never picked on the, e.g., Japanese in this context?




Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001
An immersed tunnel? Didn´t know
News flash! share with dear us here where a tunnel be neither submerged nor immersed . . .
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Old August 27th, 2012, 07:58 AM   #97
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For Underwater Tunnels in Earthquake zones its safer , cheaper and faster to use Immersed Tunnels then Bored. The Depth of this area might make that to expensive to do...they could build a floating tunnel like proposed in the video below...

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Old August 27th, 2012, 08:13 AM   #98
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There's nothing documentary about that vid, it' s mere hype - sorry. Japan, for instance, is in a real bind dealing with abominal and ever-increasingly lengthy approaches to the tunnel to its northernmost island there
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Old August 27th, 2012, 02:05 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAmarODom420 View Post
So they bored 860m of the reconnaissance tunnel in 2004 but haven't made any progress since then? Any idea of the cost of the reconnaissance tunnel per km?
Few months ago I post that it will cost 600 millions euros. And I read also 1 billions$.

I don't know how many meters they dig now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadiri View Post
We can consider that tunnel works began, because experimental galery of Tarifa will be the rescue galery.

More seriously, the project has 30 years old. It began in 1979. It's not something new. A lot of people, consider it like a joke, but a hard work have been made.

Considering the costs, it will be different than Eurotunnel, because the project is in 3 phases :
Phase 0- rescue gallery for 600 millons euros
Phase 1- West tube for 3,4 billions euros (1st projection)
Phase 2- East tube when traffic will be more important

Eurotunnel was directly made with tubes. Here is 2. The project will be support by private money, so a development by phase will be more attractive.

Don't forget, that project will be ready between 2026 and 2030. Since this date, a lots of works will be made in North Africa, including the finish of 1500km HSL in Morocco and also Algeria, Tunisia and Lybia HST network (and opened borders).

The project will help the Agadir-Laayoune-Mauritania-Senegal railway for connecting North Africa and South Sahara (also Algiers-Tamanraset-Niamey project).

Wait and see
The major problem is that :

Quote:
Doutes sur la faisabilité d’un tunnel ferroviaire entre l’Espagne et le Maroc



07/10/2008


Une étude géologique remet en cause la faisabilité du projet de tunnel ferroviaire sous le détroit de Gibraltar, entre l’Espagne et le Maroc, indique El Pais du 28 septembre. La présence de deux portions argileuses au centre du détroit rendrait incertaine la possibilité de percer le tunnel, selon une étude récemment parvenue à la société espagnole Seceg, chargée de piloter le projet avec la marocaine Sned. « Jamais des travaux publics ont fait face à de telles incertitudes », a indiqué au quotidien le président de Seceg, Angel Aparicio. Ces incertitudes arrivent au moment où les ministres des Transports des deux pays prévoyaient de demander auprès des ministres de l’UE un financement pour ce projet lancé en 2006. L’ouvrage, composé de deux tunnels et d’une galerie de service, mesurerait 38,7 km, dont 28 sous la mer jusqu’à 400 m de profondeur.
http://www.ville-rail-transports.com...-et-le-maroc-1

Quote:
Doubts about the feasibility of a rail tunnel between Spain and Morocco



07/10/2008


A geological study calls into question the feasibility of the proposed rail tunnel under the Strait of Gibraltar between Spain and Morocco, El Pais on September 28. The presence of two portions clay in the center of the Strait would uncertain ability to penetrate the tunnel, according to a study recently reached SECEG Spanish society, in charge of managing the project with the Moroccan Sned. "Public Works Never faced such uncertainty," said the daily SECEG president, Angel Aparicio. These uncertainties come when transport ministers of the two countries planned to ask ministers from EU funding for this project was launched in 2006. The book consists of two tunnels and a service tunnel, would measure 38.7 km, including 28 under the sea to 400 m depth.
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Old September 19th, 2013, 05:01 PM   #100
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Now, one year later... give us a plan!
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