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View Poll Results: Is it an ancient pyramid?
Yes 5 38.46%
No 5 38.46%
I don't know 3 23.08%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

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Old September 21st, 2010, 05:22 PM   #1
Cyrus
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Is Atashgah a 205 m-high ancient pyramid?

I think we should thank to the dry desert which has perfectly preserved the great Egyptian pyramids, a view form Google Map:



But in the ancient city of Isfahan and near Zayanderud, the largest river on the central plateau of Iran, there is a similar building, that I think and as hkskyline mentioned in another thread, could be also an ancient pyramid, however this one has been affected badly by a different climate! That is Atashgah (Temple of Fire), one of the Zoroastrianism's most holiest sites.

A view of Atashgah at the same map scale:



Some pics of Atashgah:





Zoomed in views:







What do you think? Could it be an ancient pyramid too?
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Old September 21st, 2010, 10:49 PM   #2
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In the early Islamic sources, this building has been mentioned as Saruyah, Arab historians call it the greatest building in the east, the intersting thing is that most of them compare it to the Egyptian pyramids.

For example you can read in this book, page 114:



or Islamic science and the making of the European Renaissance, Page 38:

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Old September 22nd, 2010, 03:07 AM   #3
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The rocks seem to be very square shape..it seems it was more like the pyramids in the americas,with steps and scales than the ones in Egypt.Very Interesting
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 01:25 PM   #4
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I'd vouch that it is an ancient pyramid... The tallest building in the world for millennia that nobody knew about.
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 01:30 PM   #5
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As I said it is probably a natural hill which has been modified by humans over a long period of time.
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Old September 23rd, 2010, 03:59 PM   #6
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Eleven centuries ago, the greatest Muslim bibliographer Ibn al-Nadim, who is also known as the father of bibliography, gave more information about this ancient building: http://www.kroraina.com/arab/an/an_7_1.htm

Another Account
Abū Ma‘shar [Ja‘far ibn Muḥammad] said in his book about the variations of astronomical tables: [17]
Because of their care in preserving [the books about] the sciences, their eagerness to make them endure throughout the ages, and their guarding them from celestial happenings and earthly damages, the kings of Persia actually chose for them the writing material [18] which was the most durable in case of accident, the longest lasting in time, and the least prone to decay or effacement. This [writing material] was the bark of the white poplar tree, the bark being called tūz. The peoples of India, China, and the neighboring countries imitated them. They also selected this [material] for their bows with which they shot, because of its hardness, smoothness, and durability in the bows during a long period of time.
Then, after they [the kings of Persia] had obtained the best writing materials in the world to preserve their sciences, they desired [to store the books about] them in the place which among all of the regions of the earth and the towns of the provinces had the cleanest soil and the least amount of decay, being also the furthest removed from earthquakes and eclipses, as well as possessing the most cohesive clay with the quality of construction, which would endure the longest throughout the ages. After they had made a complete survey of the lands and regions of their kingdom, they were unable to find under the vault of the heavens any place possessing these advantages to a greater extent than did Iṣbahān. [19] Then as they examined the districts of this locality, they did not find any spot in it that could excel Rustāq Jayy. [20] Furthermore, in Rustāq Jayy they did not find any place more completely like what they desired than the locality in which, later on, the city of Jayy was marked out during the time of Dāhir.
Then they went to the quhunduz, [21] which is inside the city of Jayy, to make it the depository for their sciences. This [depository] was called Sārwayh (Sārūyah) [22] and it has lasted until our own time. In regard to this building, the people knew [23] who the builder was, because many years before our time a side [of the building] became ruined. Then they found a vault in the cleft-offside, built without mortar, and in which they discovered many books of the ancients, written on white poplar bark (tūz) and containing all of the sciences of the forefathers written in the old Persian form of writing.
Some of these books came into the possession of a man interested in them. Upon reading them, he found among them a book related to the ancient kings of Persia. In it it was mentioned that Ṭahmūrath, the king who loved the sciences and scholars, was forewarned of an atmospheric phenomenon in the west, in the form of a series of rains which were to be excessive in both duration and abundance, [24] surpassing the [normal] limit.
From the first day of the years of his reign, to the first day when this phenomenon in the west began, was two hundred and thirty-one years and three hundred days. From the beginning of his reign the astrologers led him to fear that this occurrence might pass from the west to the eastern regions. So he ordered the engineers to reach an agreement for the selecting of the best place in the kingdom, with regards to soil and atmosphere. They chose for him the site of the building which is known as Sārwayh and still exists at the present time within the city of Jayy. [25] So he commanded the construction of this well-guarded building. When it was completed there was moved to it from his libraries a great deal of scientific material of various sorts, copied for him on white poplar bark (tūz) and placed in a part of the building so that it might be preserved for mankind until after the phenomenon should come to an end.
There was in it [the building] a book which was related to some of the ancient sages and which contained [knowledge of] the years and known cycles for deriving the intermediate positions of the stars and the reasons for their motions. The people of the time of Ṭahmūrath and those who lived earlier than they did in Persia called these the cycles of thousands (adwār al-hazārāt). The wise men, the kings of India who were on the face of the earth, the former kings of Persia, [26] and the ancient Chaldeans, who were tent dwellers belonging to the earliest Babylonian period, reckoned the intermediate positions of the seven stars from these years and cycles. [27] He [the king] gave special care to this [book] from among the astronomical tables of his time, because he and his contemporaries found upon examination that it was the best and briefest. The astrologers of the period, therefore, derived from it the astronomical tables, which they called the Astronomical Tables of al-Shahriyār.
This is the end of the statement of Abū Ma‘shar.
Thus saith Muḥammad ibn Isḥāq [al-Nadīm]: A reliable authority once told me that during the year three hundred and fifty after the Hijrah [A.D. 961/62], another vaulted building cracked open. As it had appeared solid on the surface, the location [of the books] did not become known until after it had become a ruin. Many books were discovered in this place, but nobody found out how to read them.
A thing which I saw and witnessed myself was [the occurrence] when, some time after the year forty [A.D. 951/52], [28] Abū al-Faḍl ibn al-‘Amīd sent here some torn books which he had found at Iṣbahān, in boxes in the wall of the city. As they were in Greek, suitable authorities like Yuḥannā [al-Qass] and others deciphered their contents, [which dealt] with the names of the troops and the amounts of their wages. The books had the worst possible stench, as bad as though the skins had been freshly tanned. But after they had been at Baghdād for a time they dried and changed, so that the smell left them. Even at the present time some of them are with our shaykh, Abū Sulaymān [Muḥammad ibn Bahrām]. It is said that the Sārwayh [29] is one of the solid ancient buildings, with such marvellous construction that it is compared in the East with the pyramids, which are in Egypt in the land of the West, both in magnificence and wonder of structure.

17. The great astonomer Abū Ma‘shar wrote numerous books about the astronomical tables; see Chap. VII, sect. 2, near n. 87, and the titles of Qifṭi, pp. 152–54.
18. The Arabic word translated “writing material” is makātib, a plural form. It usually means “schools.” Tūz shajar al-khadank is the inner bark of the khadang or white poplar tree. As a rule it was used for wrapping bow strings.
19. Unlike the other versions, the Flügel edition has Iṣfahān.
20. Jayy was an old town near Iṣbahān, also called Shahrastān. Rustāq signified a military encampment. See Yāqūt, Geog., II, 181; III, 342 bottom; IV, 452, 1045 l. 9.
21. This was the Persian name for a fortress inside a city.
22. The fortress called by Zoroastrians Jem-gird and later Sruwa, famous as the building where early Persian records were discovered; see “Isfahān,” Enc. Brit., XIV, 869.
23. The Tonk MS has a variation from darā (“knew”).
24. The manuscripts give al-dawm, whereas Flügel has al-dāwām; both forms mean “abundance.” There are unimportant other variations.
25. For the proper names, see nn. 20, 22.
26. The words “wise men” and “of Persia” are found only in the Flügel edition.
27. The seven stars probably refer to the sun, moon, and five known planets.
28. As al-Nadīm was young at this time, he probably saw the books somewhat later, after they had been brought to Baghdād for translation.
29. See n. 22.
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Old September 23rd, 2010, 04:16 PM   #7
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This quote from Ibn al-Nadim is interesting:

A thing which I saw and witnessed myself was [the occurrence] when, some time after the year forty [A.D. 951/52], [28] Abū al-Faḍl ibn al-‘Amīd sent here some torn books which he had found at Iṣbahān, in boxes in the wall of the city. As they were in Greek, suitable authorities like Yuḥannā [al-Qass] and others deciphered their contents, [which dealt] with the names of the troops and the amounts of their wages.

http://noctoc-noctoc.blogspot.com/20...e-of-iran.html

ΣΑΡΟΝ: ΤΟ ΧΩΡΙΟ ΣΤΟ ΙΡΑΝ ΟΠΟΥ ΟΜΙΛΕΙΤΑΙ Η ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΗ ΓΛΩΣΣΑ - SAROO: THE GREEK SPEAKING VILLAGE OF IRAN

Ταξιδευώντας στο Ιράν, συνάντησα κάπιον που επάνω που άκουσε ότι ήμουν Έλληνας, μου είπε την ακόλουθη συναρπαστική ιστορία. Στο Ιράν, στα βουνά κοντά στη Περσέπολη, υπάρχει ένα χωριό αποκαλούμενο Σάροο (Σάρον), όπου οι άνθρωποι μιλούν Ελληνικά μέχρι σήμερα. Μου είπε ότι επισκέφτηκε το χωριό ο ίδιος και άκουσε τους ανθρώπους εκεί να μιλάνε την Ελληνική γλώσσα.
Η εξήγησή του ήταν ότι μετά που ο Αλέξανδρος επέστρεψε από τις Ινδίες, και αφού έκαψε την Περσέπολη, μερικοί από τους στρατιώτες του παρέμειναν πίσω και δημιούργισαν εκεί μιά αποικία ονόματι Σάρον. Αυτή η αποικία είναι σήμερα το χωριό Σάροο.
Πρέπει να σημειωθεί ότι η λέξη σάρον είναι αρχαία Ελληνική λέξη που σημαίνει σκούπα. Η λέξη σαρκά είναι παράγωγο της λέξης σάρον και χρησιμοποιείται στην Κύπρο μέχρι σημέρα και σημαίνει σκούπα. Το δε ρήμα ‘‘σαρώ’’ στη Κυπριακή διάλεκτο σημαίνει ‘‘σκουπίζω’’. Δεν είχα την ευκαιρία να επισκεφθώ το χωριό ο ίδιος, αλλά εάν αυτά που λέει ο φίλος μου στο Ιράν είναι αλήθεια, τότε αυτό θα ήταν ένα νέο έδαφος για τους γλωσσολόγους της Ελληνικής γλώσσας που ανακαλύπτετε, και ένας καινούριος τόπος για μακρινούς χαμένους Έλληνες να βρεθούν.

While traveling in Iran, I met a man who upon hearing that I was Greek, he told me the following fascinating story. In Iran, in the mountains near Persepolis, there is a village called Saroo (Saron),where people speak Greek to the present day. He told me that he visited the village himself and heard the people there speaking Greek. His explanation was that after Alexander came back from India, and having burned down Persepolis, some of his soldiers remained back and formed a settlement there by the name of Saron. This settlement is the present day village of Saroo. It should be noted that Saroo is an ancient Greek word which is a derivative of the word saron meaning a broom. The word sarka which derives from the word saron, is used in Cyprus to the present day and it means a broom. The verb word ‘‘saro’’ in the Greek Cypriot dialect means ‘‘ I am sweeping’’. I did not have the opportunity to visit the village myself, but if what my friend in Iran says is true, then it would be a new ground for linguists of the Greek language to discover, and a new place for long lost Greeks to be found.
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Old September 23rd, 2010, 11:37 PM   #8
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As I see, i'd say yes, I think it's a pyramid. There is another possible pyramid in Visoko, in Bosnia with 213 metres.
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Old September 24th, 2010, 01:05 AM   #9
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^ Unfortunately the Bosnian pyramid was exposed as a hoax in 2006. Basically they are the remains of prehistoric buildings on a pyramid shaped hill (a type of natural, clastic formation called a shoehorn, one of many in the area).
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Old September 24th, 2010, 11:16 AM   #10
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If we want to consider the certain pyramids, these are the largest ones in the world:

1. Konar Sandal, Iran
Area covered: 40 acres (164,000 square meters)

2. Cholula, Mexico
Area covered: 25 acres (101,000 square meters)

3.Giza, Egypt
Area covered: 13.6 acres (53,000 square meters)

More info about Konar Sandal:

http://www.cais-soas.com/News/2006/F...-discovery.htm
http://www.cais-soas.com/News/2004/J...2004/22-01.htm


Konar Sandal
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Old September 24th, 2010, 11:16 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the spliff fairy View Post
^ Unfortunately the Bosnian pyramid was exposed as a hoax in 2006. Basically they are the remains of prehistoric buildings on a pyramid shaped hill (a type of natural, clastic formation called a shoehorn, one of many in the area).
Oh, what a pity. Not pyramids in Europe
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Old September 25th, 2010, 08:26 PM   #12
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