Discussions | Spam Thread

[Kelli]

Originally Posted by jackso

A backlash against equality? I don't see it that way. More that it is a balancing out of gender equality as an 'issue' to normalised equality. Young people make light of the issue of gender equality. The whole women in the kitchen thing is the most prominent example of it, it gets thrown around all the time. But I would struggle to name a person I know who actually believes a woman can not/should not achieve anything a man can.

In regards to the camps/university culture, knowing the people on these camps, and having experienced similar/same situations I don't see it as a gender issue. The purpose of these camps is sex and alcohol and making new friends. You know that before you go, and you are free to leave at any point. The attitudes of the women are hardly different to the attitudes of the men.

You missed the point too. Ask why well written and well thought out articles on this and other social issues are not posted here ever? The only exception on here is maybe gay rights literature, but even those get torn down invariably by the same people.

As to the bolded bit, that's no different than when I was in my late teens/early twenties. It wears thin as a joke pretty quick, along with all the other classics. Those kind of jokes are loaded. Embrace true wit Jackso!

[jackso]

I said I hear the jokes, not that I use them Not my style.

If I got offended every time a hear the word 'gay' used as a negative I wouldn't have time to think about anything else.

[Kelli]

Originally Posted by ..adam

I guess because the younger generation is generally more progressive. They are more supportive of gay rights, climate change action, or building taller skyscrapers even. I'm far from an expert though so I have no idea if it is true in every case.

Yeah I'm not sure, that's another issue to explore. I wonder why young people don't keep their idealism alive? To my way of thinking you should get more progressive with age as you expand your knowledge and experience, but obviously it doesn't work that way as a rule.

[Kelli]

Originally Posted by jackso

If I got offended every time a hear the word 'gay' used as a negative I wouldn't have time to think about anything else.

Good point, but give it 20 years.

[jackso]

Originally Posted by Kelli

Yeah I'm not sure, that's another issue to explore. I wonder why young people don't keep their idealism alive? To my way of thinking you should get more progressive with age as you expand your knowledge and experience, but obviously it doesn't work that way as a rule.

[Kelli]

Funny.

Not sure where to go with that.

Maybe except to say, Lisa IS youthful idealism (and my role model).

[Kelli]

Originally Posted by Kelli

I wonder why young people don't keep their idealism alive?

To clarify what I meant by that, that as people get older they can lose some of their idealistic views. As in like someone said 'If you're not a liberal when you're 20, you've got no heart, if you're not a conservative by the time you're 40, you have no brain'. There is something to it, why does it have to be that way is the question.

[samboy]

Originally Posted by Kelli

There is inequality because people don’t face up to it. Feel free to apply what I said to any discrimination, none of it gets air on here except to dismiss it, which is equivalent to condoning it.

Dismissive is what that last comment is incidentally, I don't believe you really have the understanding to make that judgement, although a change is as good as a holiday I suppose.

Here's the thing Kelli, I 100% agree that there is no such thing as equality. I also 100% agree that discrimination is rife in society. I'm (almost) 100% sure that I've been discriminated against far worse than you have as I've always been part of minority group wherever I've lived, including place of birth. So in that respect I see myself adequately equipped to pass judgement.

I also believe, in some cases dismissing incidental stuff achieves far more than throwing every perceived discrimination incident back at their faces. I am personally more interested in what people are genuinely thinking/feeling rather than outwardly displaying, because they're too scared to offend or want to toe the politically correctness line or fear backlash.

IMO all the anti-discrimination campaign has achieved over the years to push the majority of these types of people 'underground'. They don't think any different, they don't feel any different, they just act different when they have to.

Essentially what I'm trying to get at is that it's up to the individual to come up with their own strategies to combat being discriminated against and not rely on some collective or govt enforced means. At the end of the day it won't work. e.g There's plenty of legislation to prevent it in the workforce, yet I guarantee you people are overlooked on a daily basis during the recruitment process because of x,y,z. It's very easy to get around it. I'd much rather rely on my own creativity to circumvent (or deal) with it.

As for the article, it's just a load of rubbish and has no intention to be anything other than some sensationalist piece to sell papers.

I don't think there's some inherent bias here against those sorts of topics, it's just that this is probably not the best forum for it. We mostly talk shit, then about buildings, then whinge and more shit, followed by some gay jokes, which those who have been here long enough are fully aware that it's not said with any malice. Quite the opposite.

[JWPJ]

Kelli, the idealistic youth are dead... everyone is far more self interested now. Where once you would be able to whip students into a frenzied protest march you now just get apathetic looks of disinterest.

Sure, the youngens might be more liberal than their aged counterparts, but that might have more to do with increasing education of and exposure to the 'other'.

[Ultimate Hater]

Middle class white girls have it so tough these days.

[Kelli]

I hate arguing with you Samboy, a lot of what you say is reasonable as a point of view, it's just that if everyone took that stance of non-action, we'd still be living in caves. I pretty much disagree with you on everything actually.

Originally Posted by samboy

Here's the thing Kelli, I 100% agree that there is no such thing as equality. I also 100% agree that discrimination is rife in society. I'm (almost) 100% sure that I've been discriminated against far worse than you have as I've always been part of minority group wherever I've lived, including place of birth. So in that respect I see myself adequately equipped to pass judgement.

So through the exertions of people who went to the effort that gradually changed the status quo, you can live in relative peace here? Might even go further one day, it does seem that real social change takes a few generations to really sink in, even with people making the effort.

Originally Posted by samboy

I also believe, in some cases dismissing incidental stuff achieves far more than throwing every perceived discrimination incident back at their faces. I am personally more interested in what people are genuinely thinking/feeling rather than outwardly displaying, because they're too scared to offend or want to toe the politically correctness line or fear backlash.

IMO all the anti-discrimination campaign has achieved over the years to push the majority of these types of people 'underground'. They don't think any different, they don't feel any different, they just act different when they have to.

I don't throw every 'perceived' incident in peoples faces by the way, I just lose all respect for them quietly.

I’m wondering if you are referring to me raising this issue a few times here (mostly recently and abortively)? I've been on this site over four years, I've shown restraint, part of me is asking why should I be the only one to show it? That's what you don't like, feeling under any restraint, I don't like it either.

Besides, not saying what you mean is what Australians do, it’s just convenient to be able to blame political correctness for the strain of being emotionally repressed.

Originally Posted by samboy

Essentially what I'm trying to get at is that it's up to the individual to come up with their own strategies to combat being discriminated against and not rely on some collective or govt enforced means. At the end of the day it won't work. e.g There's plenty of legislation to prevent it in the workforce, yet I guarantee you people are overlooked on a daily basis during the recruitment process because of x,y,z. It's very easy to get around it. I'd much rather rely on my own creativity to circumvent (or deal) with it. .

Even if the strategies of women with no overt power are that they become manipulative, amongst other things?

Originally Posted by samboy

I don't think there's some inherent bias here against those sorts of topics, it's just that this is probably not the best forum for it. We mostly talk shit, then about buildings, then whinge and more shit, followed by some gay jokes, which those who have been here long enough are fully aware that it's not said with any malice. Quite the opposite.

It depends regards the banter, I’d never indulge in it, I’ve seen people irritated and upset by it too many times, it seems to me that it’s usually only (apparently) straight men that think it’s amusing.

You’ve said that before about not being the right medium, why is a forum not the place for these discussions? It’s as much a part of social life as any other gathering. Plus, the handful of sanctioned topics is getting boring, there’s a whole wide world out there. It seems like the only way any other topic gets through is by putting an A-bomb under it, beginning to think people are a bit dim.

[Kelli]

Originally Posted by samboy

As for the article, it's just a load of rubbish.

I agree with this one.

[Kelli]

Originally Posted by JWPJ

Kelli, the idealistic youth are dead... everyone is far more self interested now. Where once you would be able to whip students into a frenzied protest march you now just get apathetic looks of disinterest.

Sure, the youngens might be more liberal than their aged counterparts, but that might have more to do with increasing education of and exposure to the 'other'.

Maybe that ties in with the backlash feeling I'm getting? Maybe no wonder considering the fruitless protests in the 90's and early 2000's, probably figured it wasn't going to change anything so why bother.

[Kelli]

Originally Posted by Ultimate Hater

Middle class white girls have it so tough these days.

It's a forum full of whiny middle class white boys Nate, you're just bothered that I can compete.

[Kelli]

And you're the fat slut.

[acc521]

Originally Posted by Kelli

I agree with this one.

So now you agree?

That's what I don't get about you Kelli. The original criticism, well from me at least, was about the article, not any underlying issues, however you seem to just go straight for the jugular in attack mode.

Let's make sure we know what we are debating before engaging in the debate.

P.S. I disagree with your assertion that it's only the straight makes who engage in the "banter" on here. PG, Dilaz and DR are all frequent participants.

[samboy]

Originally Posted by Kelli

I hate arguing with you Samboy, a lot of what you say is reasonable as a point of view, it's just that if everyone took that stance of non-action, we'd still be living in caves.

If it's any consolation, I never argue to irritate or bait you. I genuinely believe it. Also these types of discussions have a habit of somewhat going off course, so even when we agree on something it's hard to tell what we're agreeing (or disagreeing) about.

The jist of my argument is that in the war against discrimination you can definitely catch more flies with honey.

Let's take Sanj for example (sorry Sanj) - He goes around calling himself a curry. He could alternatively fight for equal rights, demand respect and get offended if someone calls him that. I guarantee you he does win more respect through self-deprecation than any other means. You can always charm people, be it with humour or your personality rather than taking the 'moral' stance all the time. That's what I mean by 'fighting' vs being 'dismissive'. When you force something down someone's throat you'll never going to genuinely convince them that what they're doing is wrong. They'll just back stab you at the first opportunity they get.

Sadly, in this world of political correctness, the above strategy is frowned upon. People still love to hear all the 'right' words even if the intent behind it is bogus.

Similarly if I call someone a homo doesn't mean I'm degrading them. I'm as liberal as they come when it comes to gay rights etc vs someone who says all the right things but inherently biased and hateful.

[Urbania]

Originally Posted by samboy

Similarly if I call someone a homo doesn't mean I'm degrading them. I'm as liberal as they come when it comes to gay rights etc vs someone who says all the right things but inherently biased and hateful.

Would you call someone you have just met a homo to their face?

[ryan79]

Originally Posted by Kelli

Has nothing to do with who you are, it's the stuff you come out with.

That first sentence is the first decent thing on the subject I've heard you say.

Thats a bit harsh but I think we come to similar conclusions in different ways. I say the first sentence because of the second sentence. If you make all sex sound like some form of devious sexual assault then actual sexual assault is trivialised.

I can't comment on sexist discrimination against women unless I agree with the PC stance on it because I'm not a woman and will never understand. I don't agree with the PC stance because of the same reason, I don't know if its true and I find it hard to believe that ALL women feel the same way.

Like us men, women are all individuals with different thoughts and experiences so to say the PC stance is the only correct stance for all women IMO is just as sexist.

All I can really say is that a lot of the things women complain about also happen to men. Sexual assault, sex discrimination, stereotyping, being treated as objects. However all the news we ever hear is about poor young vulnerable women being attacked by disgusting sex addicted men (because it sells papers). I'm not saying it doesn't happen, quite the contrary, I'm saying it happens to a wide variety of people.

So my rather dismissive view stems from the fact everyone has problems in life and we all have to deal with them the best we can and my cynicism of all things media.

[samboy]

Originally Posted by Urbania

Would you call someone you have just met a homo to their face?

Is that a serious question? Of course not. I'd only call them that if they know me (and therefore the intent).