CHINA | High Speed Trainsets

[greenlion]

Breaking News! the first CRH380B, CRH380B-6401L (L means 16 cars train), completed at CNR Tangshan factory by september 21 !

this picture made a mistake on train number, on the following video we can see the train number is CRH380B-6401L


here is a 12 minutes Video for the Official ceromony
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjA4MDM0MTY4.html

Official name of CRH 380 series confirmed by this thread

http://www.hobbyshanghai.com.cn/view...d=35077&page=1

CRH380A, train No. 6001-6140 (140 trains in total) manufactuer by CSR Sifang Factory, 7 trains completed by september 26
CRH380B, train No.6201-6310 (110 train in total) manufacturer by CNR Changchun Factory
CRH380B, train No.6401-6470 (70 trains in total)manufacturer by CNR Tangshan Factory, 3 trains completed by September 21
CRH380C, train No.6601-6680 (80 trains in total)manufacturer by BST

September 24, CRH380A-6002 test run at Yuyao station, Huhang PDL

[foxmulder]

CRH380A looks great. I wonder how will CRH380C look.

[33Hz]

16 cars? Cool. Now they can sell it back to Deutsche Bahn for the London services...

What's so special about this CRH380 family? Are they just running the previous trains 30km/h faster?

[dumbfword]

Originally Posted by 33Hz

16 cars? Cool. Now they can sell it back to Deutsche Bahn for the London services...

What's so special about this CRH380 family? Are they just running the previous trains 30km/h faster?

It's not from Siemens. It's the Bombardier Zefiro.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_Zefiro

[greenlion]

Originally Posted by dumbfword

It's not from Siemens. It's the Bombardier Zefiro.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_Zefiro

Zefiro 380 is named as CRH380C in China, the first CRH380C is scheduled to be completed at BST Sifang Factory by 2012

[BarbaricManchurian]

Originally Posted by 33Hz

16 cars? Cool. Now they can sell it back to Deutsche Bahn for the London services...

What's so special about this CRH380 family? Are they just running the previous trains 30km/h faster?

they made some technical improvements, of course

[HyperMiler]

Originally Posted by 33Hz

16 cars? Cool. Now they can sell it back to Deutsche Bahn for the London services...

Three problems.

1. Too big to run on European railway.
2. UIC crashworthiness standard compliance.
3. IPR lawsuits.

Are they just running the previous trains 30km/h faster?

Yes.

[wharton2010]

CRH 380A Test Run on Zhengzhou-Xi'An PDL

http://www.youtube.com/v/uTYwFtIaKGs

http://www.youtube.com/v/ZuOL--GvSzE

http://www.youtube.com/v/P1fdgqPFV50

http://www.youtube.com/v/xhW7QmEJoN8

CRH 380A in Shanghai suburb
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjA1OTU4OTQw.html

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjA1OTU3NDQw.html

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjA1OTU4MDYw.html

[crazyalex]

China high speed rail will be better than Europe

I know most European won't agree with me

[Gadiri]

Originally Posted by 33Hz

16 cars? Cool. Now they can sell it back to Deutsche Bahn for the London services...

What's so special about this CRH380 family? Are they just running the previous trains 30km/h faster?

Look at the KTX1 at 00:48, there are 18 passengers coaches (+2 technical coaches).

KTX-Sancheon, HEMU-400X



0:40 min : on voit 18 voitures entourées par 2 motrices ! Habituellement on voit 2 motrices encadrée 8 ou 9 voitures. A 6:02 min on voit un KTX2 entourant 8 voitures.

[greenlion]

Originally Posted by 33Hz

16 cars? Cool. Now they can sell it back to Deutsche Bahn for the London services...

What's so special about this CRH380 family? Are they just running the previous trains 30km/h faster?

Basically CRH380B is still a siemens design, the market price of CRH380BL is about 300 million RMB per train, (44.76 million USD), as technics are part of the deal between CNR & Siemens, at least half of the money goes to Siemen's pocket, the same to CRH380C, Bombardier hold 50% of the sales revenue.

But it is different to CRH380A, which is expected to export to the US by CSR, It's mainly designed by Chinese (of course some of the technics are from previously CRH2C, actually the first CRH380A test train which tested at Zhengxi PDL during may, 2010 was laterly named as CRH2-150 , it's a CRH2 in CRH380A skin) and Kawasaki did not share the sales revenue.

[greenlion]

Chinese MOR CRH trains order timetable, update with officially name of the CRH380 family given by Chinese MOR

Date         Factory                  Class     Type       Quantity Quantity   Amount
                                                            (Set)    (Car)
2004-10-10   Alstom & CNR Changchun  250km/h   CRH5A         60       480     620 m ERU
2004-10-12   Bombadier & BST         250km/h   CRH1A         20       160     350 m USD
2004-10-12   Kawasaki  & CSR Sifang  250km/h   CRH2A         60       480   9,300 m RMB
2005-05-31   Bombadier & BST         250km/h   CRH1A         20       160     350 m USD
Jun 2005     CSR Sifang              300km/h   CRH2C         60       480   8,200 m RMB
Nov 2005     Siemens & CNR Tangshan  350km/h   CRH3C         60       480  13,000 m RMB
2007-10-31   BST                     250km/h   CRH1B & 1E    20+20    640   1,000 m ERU
Nov 2007     CSR Sifang              250km/h   CRH2B         10       160   1,200 m RMB
Nov 2007     CSR Sifang              250km/h   CRH2E          6        96     900 m RMB
Dec 2008     CSR Sifang              250km/h   CRH2E         14       224   2,100 m RMB
Jun 2009     CNR Changchun           250km/h   CRH5A         30       240   4,800 m RMB
2009-03-16   CNR Tangshan            380km/h   CRH380BL      70     1,120  27,440 m RMB
2009-03-16   CNR Changchun           380km/h   CRH380BL      30       480  11,760 m RMB
2009-09-28   CSR Sifang              380km/h   CRH380A & AL  40+100 1,920  45,000 m RMB
2009-09-28   Bombadier & BST         380km/h   CRH380C & CL  20+60  1,120  27,400 m RMB
2009-09-28   CNR Changchun           380km/h   CRH380B & BL  40+40    960  23,500 m RMB
2009-09-28   CNR Tangshan            380km/h   CRH380B       20       160   3,920 m RMB
2010-07-16   BST                     250km/h   CRH1A         40       320   5,200 m RMB
2010-09-14   CSR Sifang              250km/h   CRH2A         20       160   3,400 m RMB
Total                                                       860     9,840
                                                            (1230 standard train sets)

[HyperMiler]

Originally Posted by greenlion

But it is different to CRH380A, which is expected to export to the US by CSR

CRH380A has pretty much 0% chance of being sold in the US, unless China pursues a private railway like Desert Xpress.

1. Kawasaki/JR East IPR lawsuit threat.
2. Even if IPR issue is somehow resolved, crashworthiness problem remains. JR East is looking to sell N700 in the US via a Japan-funded private capital railway because of Shinkansen's inability to run on shared track, and the same problem was inherited by CRH380A because it is 90% Shinkansen E2.

The truth is that CRH380A was built to Chinese railway specification; and is incompatible with the US and European railways.

[Slagathor]

Originally Posted by crazyalex

China high speed rail will be better than Europe

I know most European won't agree with me

Why? Unlike most Americans we're not generally stuck up in some sort of inflated sense of superiority. China makes some kick-ass stuff. A lot of their infrastructure (particularly airports) are of superior quality to most their Western equivalents. I welcome it. I welcome all progress of humanity regardless of where it takes place.

[33Hz]

Originally Posted by HyperMiler

Three problems.

1. Too big to run on European railway.
2. UIC crashworthiness standard compliance.
3. IPR lawsuits.

Yes I was joking...

I know about the different loading gauge but I'd be surprised if the crash worthiness is any different than a Velaro.

As for IPR, I read some translation of Chinese stories that said Siemens is still involved with the 380B, but the Chinese didn't want publicity.

Originally Posted by Gadiri

Look at the KTX1 at 00:48, there are 18 passengers coaches (+2 technical coaches).

Indeed - as there is with a Eurostar - but no TGV design is allowed on the NBS Cologne - Frankfurt.

The point I was making (maybe it was too subtle) is that there is all this palaver about the <400m ICE3s not being allowed through the Channel Tunnel, yet Siemens and their Chinese partners just made a >400m "ICE3" in the space of a year. Given that DB are ordering a whole new version of ICE3 for this purpose, it's can't be too hard to make a long one.

DB have said the plan to run two trains in multiple. Are they planning to split these in Brussels for two destinations or is this just to get to the arbitrary length limit? If the latter then an EU version of the CRH-380B could be the answer. The extra top speed might be useful too.


Anyway, back on topic...

[Stainless]

Originally Posted by 33Hz

The point I was making (maybe it was too subtle) is that there is all this palaver about the <400m ICE3s not being allowed through the Channel Tunnel, yet Siemens and their Chinese partners just made a >400m "ICE3" in the space of a year. Given that DB are ordering a whole new version of ICE3 for this purpose, it's can't be too hard to make a long one.

DB have said the plan to run two trains in multiple. Are they planning to split these in Brussels for two destinations or is this just to get to the arbitrary length limit? If the latter then an EU version of the CRH-380B could be the answer. The extra top speed might be useful too.


Anyway, back on topic...

Are platforms in Germany long enough for the >400m trains? or is the issue that they don't think they can get enough business to fill a long train? Anyway I thought the splitting idea was so all passengers moved to one half of the train in an emergency, how can they do that with 2 trains stuck together unless they have adjoining doors?

[HyperMiler]

Originally Posted by 33Hz

Yes I was joking...

I know about the different loading gauge but I'd be surprised if the crash worthiness is any different than a Velaro.

That depends on whether CRH3 has dual-layer aluminum skin shell of proper gauge. Siemens may not have handed over that technology to the Chinese, opting to construct CRH3 with single-layer skin to save on cost and weight, since a crashworthiness standard doesn't exist in Chinese HSR. Japanese did not hand over dual-layer aluminum skin technology either.

As for IPR, I read some translation of Chinese stories that said Siemens is still involved with the 380B, but the Chinese didn't want publicity.

Siemens would not allow CRH3 and its derivatives to show up on international markets, make no mistake about it. Based on released pricing info, there is little cost difference between CRH380B and Velaro, so there is no reason for Siemens to "outsource" Velaro production to CNR.

[carrot1]

Originally Posted by HyperMiler

That depends on whether CRH3 has dual-layer aluminum skin shell of proper gauge. Siemens may not have handed over that technology to the Chinese, opting to construct CRH3 with single-layer skin to save on cost and weight, since a crashworthiness standard doesn't exist in Chinese HSR. Japanese did not hand over dual-layer aluminum skin technology either.


Siemens would not allow CRH3 and its derivatives to show up on international markets, make no mistake about it. Based on released pricing info, there is little cost difference between CRH380B and Velaro, so there is no reason for Siemens to "outsource" Velaro production to CNR.

[dumbfword]

Originally Posted by Slagathor

Why? Unlike most Americans we're not generally stuck up in some sort of inflated sense of superiority. China makes some kick-ass stuff. A lot of their infrastructure (particularly airports) are of superior quality to most their Western equivalents. I welcome it. I welcome all progress of humanity regardless of where it takes place.

lol. With that little comment it's like the pot calling the kettle black.

[HyperMiler]

Velaro D. Dual-layer skin is visible.


CRH380B. Notice the cross section.

Siemens may have used single-layer skin shell to fit more seats into CRH3 as the requirement was 3+2 seating.