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Old October 16th, 2010, 01:05 AM   #181
foxmulder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
Neither one of you seems to have any clue.

Siemens is doing business in China because of its clever play: it insisted on not transferring some of the key technologies for Velaro, which greatly hampered the Chinese efforts to upgrade the designs of CRH3. Siemens is doing (rail-related) business in China because (a) it is better to have business in a country with large market than not; and (b) Siemens could actually keep some of the business because it managed to make the Chinese depend on them.

By contrast, none of the Japanese companies is doing rail-related business (except for component-sourcing: it is not clear if Hitachi is still making electric motors for some of the newest generation CRHs).

So on the one hand, it is not true that all foreign companies with relevant expertise are doing rail-related business in China, and, on the other hand, for those that are, the reason that they are is not merely market size ((a) above), but mainly because they can (i.e. (b) above).
How do you even know what I think/know? I didn't write anything yet. I started with Socrates method, just asked a question... Read my posts again!
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Old October 16th, 2010, 05:12 AM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
the CRH380A from Sifang, involves intellectual property infringement.
It does.

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Some people's point has been that, if it did, foreign companies would have specifically raised the legal issues. But they haven't.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=488

Quote:
Japanese rail chief hits at Beijing
By Jonathan Soble in Tokyo
Published: April 5 2010 20:02 | Last updated: April 6 2010 01:09
The chairman of Central Japan Railway, operator of Japan’s busiest bullet train link, has denounced China’s high-speed rail industry for “stealing” foreign technology and compromising safety.

Alstom of France has complained that Chinese companies are competing for export contracts using foreign technology.
Quote:
The truth is that CRH380A is based on CRH2, which is based on technology contractually transferred from Kawasaki.
Transferred design is for license construction of CRH2 only. CSR was banned from modifying CRH2 design in anyway, or take the transferred design to another product under the terms of license.

Quote:
Neither in the case of the predecessor - CRH2 - nor in the design and test work for the CRH380A was there any infringement of intellectual property.
CSR was contractually banned from modifying CRH2 in anyway. How do we know? CRH2 is no longer warranted by Kawasaki and JR East because of CSR's unauthorized modifications to CRH2(dubbed CRH2C) then CRH380A.

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The former because Kawasaki contractually agreed to transfer all the technology involved in E2
For production of CRH2 only.

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Clever buying politics made it possible.
Actually it was Chinese willful violation of foreign IP that made it possible.
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Old October 16th, 2010, 10:20 AM   #183
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Kawasaki does not give warranty to CRH380A, since it is not even their own design.
The CRH380A is a Chinese indigenous design, superior to the Kawasaki design.
The foreign companies have not specifically raised any legal issues. That is why the copycat Korean nationalists are so full of sour grapes.
These Koreans have not even looked at any Kawasaki design or the Chinese indigenous designs.
The Chinese now has superior research and development capability.

Last edited by maldini; October 16th, 2010 at 10:28 AM.
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Old October 16th, 2010, 10:38 AM   #184
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How far would a copyright case against companies owned by the PRC get in China?
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Old October 16th, 2010, 10:46 AM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maldini View Post
Kawasaki does not give warranty to CRH380A, since it is not even their own design.
The CRH380A is a Chinese indigenous design, superior to the Kawasaki design.
The foreign companies have not specifically raised any legal issues. That is why the copycat Korean nationalists are so full of sour grapes.
These Koreans have not even looked at any Kawasaki design or the Chinese indigenous designs.
The Chinese now has superior research and development capability.
You are right. hyper miller has a lot inferiority complex. Remember from my college history/east asian studies class, it's logical that Koreans have a lot inferiority complex in front of Japanese or Chinese.

Even thou I have never taken any high speed train in any of Japan, China or Korea, just looking at crappy shape especially the interior of Korean KTX here http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=756946 compare to Shinkansen and CRH, I conclude that I do not want ride any Korean train.

Last edited by wharton2010; October 16th, 2010 at 11:26 AM.
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Old October 16th, 2010, 03:42 PM   #186
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This thread is about Chinese railways, not racism.
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Old October 16th, 2010, 05:14 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maldini View Post
Kawasaki does not give warranty to CRH380A, since it is not even their own design.
And Kawasaki also does not warrant CRH2, because of unauthorized Chinese modifications to it. CRH380A is simply a more extensive modification of CRH2, that's all.

Quote:
The CRH380A is a Chinese indigenous design
Chinese indigenous design would take 10 years to develop and verify. Chinese demonstrate no development speed advantage relative to foreigners in automobiles and airplanes, so why should it be any different for high speed trains?

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The foreign companies have not specifically raised any legal issues.
JR Central, Alstom, and Siemens CEOs have.

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The Chinese now has superior research and development capability.
If that was the case, then Chinese would stop pirating foreign designs and build their own designs, no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dumbfword View Post
How far would a copyright case against companies owned by the PRC get in China?
Foreign IP is not respected in Chinese court, just ask GM with its infamous Spark vs Chery QQ case.

At this point, I have more respect for China Star than CHR380A & Bs. At least Chinese tried to come up with its own design with China Star, whereas CHR380A and Bs are shameless rip-offs of foreign designs that those foreign firms entrusted to Chinese in good faith.

So where did the Chinese innovative spirit that created China Star go and we have rip offs in its place?
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Old October 16th, 2010, 05:46 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperMiler View Post
And Kawasaki also does not warrant CRH2, because of unauthorized Chinese modifications to it. CRH380A is simply a more extensive modification of CRH2, that's all.


Chinese indigenous design would take 10 years to develop and verify. Chinese demonstrate no development speed advantage relative to foreigners in automobiles and airplanes, so why should it be any different for high speed trains?

Have you takening into account of how large these R&D centres are in China? They practically have tens of thousands of engineers employed and have virtually unlimited access to funds. So it's quite justified for the Chinese to produce a design in less than 10 years.

JR Central, Alstom, and Siemens CEOs have.

So the CEOs are complaining, where are the lawsuits that we have been hearing you spew about? Even if it's filed in the PRC what is there to lose for JR Central, Alstom and Siemens?
My response in red
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Old October 16th, 2010, 06:45 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dumbfword View Post
How far would a copyright case against companies owned by the PRC get in China?
They would win.

By the way, you'd do well not to confuse copyright with patents. Both are forms of intellectual property rights, but only the latter is likely to have anything to do with trains.

And stay on topic: the CHR380A.
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Old October 17th, 2010, 12:34 AM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
By the way, you'd do well not to confuse copyright with patents. Both are forms of intellectual property rights, but only the latter is likely to have anything to do with trains.
By patent, do you mean design patent? This is different from the usual meaning of patents for inventions, and is a form of industrial design right.
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In the United States, a design patent is a patent granted on the ornamental design of a functional item. Design patents are a type of industrial design right.
...
A US design patent covers the ornamental design for an object having practical utility. An object with a design that is substantially similar to the design claimed in a design patent cannot be made, used, copied or imported into the United States. The copy does not have to be exact for the patent to be infringed. It only has to be substantially similar.
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Old October 17th, 2010, 12:37 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by curiousi View Post
CRH 380A is NOT the fastest train in the world. The French V150 holds the title - max. speed 575 km per hour (357 miles per hour).

This is supposed to be old story. You guys are not very well informed.

Read.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/04/bu...s/04train.html
it is quite apparently to me that the French V150 test train is MUCH shorter than the CRH380A, in order to maximize its power to weight ratio. And it doesn't carry a regular passenger/cargo payload (again, power to weight ratio). That's why it can easily achieve 574km/h. It is a great achievement nevertheless.
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Old October 17th, 2010, 12:44 AM   #192
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Wow, so these trains are a substitute to planes when traveling regionally? Thats pretty nice. Plus the seats don't look too bad as well.
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Old October 17th, 2010, 07:13 PM   #193
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Edit.

Last edited by snow is red; October 17th, 2010 at 07:51 PM.
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Old October 18th, 2010, 03:05 AM   #194
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this thread is ruined. again.
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Old October 18th, 2010, 09:12 AM   #195
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So is this new train actually in operation?
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Old October 18th, 2010, 11:41 AM   #196
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Could anyone be so kind to provide me links to a YouTube video on a journey on the CRH380A?

And when's the CRH3-inspired (the Velaro one) CRH380 train going to come out?

I think for this decade and hopefully not a few more, there will always be some biasness against anything new 'power' that's trying its very best to come out as a world leader. Who would have thought decades ago that the Brazilians would build a reliable and quality regional jet? Who would have thought that Airbus would become such a big player in aviation today? There will always be critics.
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Old October 18th, 2010, 08:15 PM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zergcerebrates View Post
So is this new train actually in operation?
yes, it ran on Shanghai-Nanjing HSR after the trial run.
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Old October 18th, 2010, 08:30 PM   #198
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Quote:
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Could anyone be so kind to provide me links to a YouTube video on a journey on the CRH380A?
Not many videos are available since it is new. Here is one video taken inside the CRH 380A on Shanghai-Nanjing HSR leaving Zhenjiang Station:

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Old October 19th, 2010, 07:48 AM   #199
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Right. The next person to carry on this ridiculous and childish political fighting gets a big fat infraction. Got that? Good.
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Old October 19th, 2010, 06:49 PM   #200
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China CRH380A VIP and First-class carriages



On September 30th and October 1st, CRH380A (e.g. CRH is an acronym for "China Railway High-speed") HSR entered temporary service on the Huning PDL (e.g. Passenger Dedicated Line for Shanghai-Nanjing HSR). During the trial run, the top speed reached was 342 km/h.

CRH380A at Changzhou Station





Economy-class carriages





Dining carriage







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