daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old October 19th, 2010, 07:12 PM   #201
hmmwv
Registered User
 
hmmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,391
Likes (Received): 420

I wonder why the VIP "suites" are not fully enclosed, you can't expect much privacy when people can still overhear you talking.
hmmwv no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old October 19th, 2010, 07:34 PM   #202
Ariel74
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Frankfurt am Main
Posts: 414
Likes (Received): 1

They really need to work on cabin design. What's the deal with the half enclosed compartments??? and the red seats....
Ariel74 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2010, 07:39 PM   #203
Taller, Better
Administrator
 
Taller, Better's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 71,077
Likes (Received): 12282

People, please. LET THE OLD FIGHT DROP. I've had to delete two more references to it. Let's move on as no one wants to get an infraction, do they? Thank you.
__________________
'Make no little plans. They have no magic to stir men's blood."
-architect Daniel Burnman
Taller, Better no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2010, 02:22 AM   #204
sotavento
Registered user
 
sotavento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,419
Likes (Received): 322

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyalex View Post
China high speed rail will be better than Europe

I know most European won't agree with me
There are a lot of arguments in favour and against any of those oposing options:


- 2/3 of europe has no need for HSR at all ...
- europe is not a flat grid of metropolis without boundaries
- most distances betweeen major cities in europe range from 50 to 200km only ...

So theres not a real NEED for over 200km/h running in most cases. unno:


- china has 20 or 30 metropolis over 1 milllion spaced evenly some 300km betweeen them in a seemingly grid pattern
- 1100km from HArbin to Beijing
- 1100km from Beijing to Shanghai
- 1200km from Shanghai to Guangzhou
- need to say more ???



China 1230 HS trains in 2010 (in service or ordered)
Europe = how many trains suitable to 200km/h or more ???

DB has some 259 HS Trains and some 240 >200km/h locomotives (half the ICE network mileage allows 200km/h running)
Renfe(Spain) has some 260 HS Trains plus 103 >200km/h locomotives
SNCF(france) has some 450 TGV plus 57 200km/h Trains (160? duplex,55 on order) and 330 >200km/h locomotives


Nevermind these numbers ... the rest of european railways all put together only have another 400 or 500 trainsets capable of >200km/h ... this in an area roughly the size of china with only 500 million people.

Add to this some thousand trains capable of 160km/h of course.

Bot the difference is purelly on the DENSITY of the networks ... you wont be seeing paralel HSL only 30/50km apart in china anytime soon ... there are a few already in europe.

If on the other hand we speak about top speeds ... one must remeber that 1/2 the routes in Europe and Japan were built some 50 , 100 or even 150 years ago and continuously upgraded up to 200/250/275 km/h ... only few were built from scratch to "add capacity" to the old routes.


In the end it's always better when we see a completelly new route and trains built to the latest standards like china is doing.

CRH380 looks great by the way.
__________________
"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
— Eça
sotavento no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2010, 02:27 AM   #205
sotavento
Registered user
 
sotavento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,419
Likes (Received): 322

Quote:
Originally Posted by dumbfword View Post
Doesn't Deutsche Bahn pretty much only buy Siemens high speed trains?
Old ICE trains were built by a lot of companies wich nowadays fell in the hands of both Siemens and Bombardier conglomerates.

In fact even the ICE3 was 1/2 siemens and 1/2 bombardier ... that's why Siemens relaunched the product as ICE3 (to get rid of the bombardier half) and Bombardier launched the Zefiro for exactly the same purposes ... same happened with the DB12 spin-off's ...
__________________
"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
— Eça
sotavento no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2010, 05:01 AM   #206
yaohua2000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 453
Likes (Received): 7

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
Bot the difference is purelly on the DENSITY of the networks ... you wont be seeing paralel HSL only 30/50km apart in china anytime soon ... there are a few already in europe.
There will soon be paralleled HSL only 30/50 METERS apart in China.
yaohua2000 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2010, 06:19 AM   #207
fragel
Registered User
 
fragel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Fragel Town, Michigan
Posts: 1,452
Likes (Received): 55

Quote:
Originally Posted by yaohua2000 View Post
There will soon be paralleled HSL only 30/50 METERS apart in China.
you are referring to the Shanghai-Nanjing HSR and the Shanghai-Nanjing section on Beijing-Shanghai HSR being parallel high speed lines when the latter is operational next year, right? There are more parallel lines, but when I think '30/50 meters apart', that is the first one popping out.

I hope they can extend the maglev from Shanghai to Hangzhou, and then we’ll have parallel HSR and maglev…
__________________
女口果人尔能句多王里解这句言舌,京尤言兑日月人尔有匕匕车交严重白勺斗又鸟目艮。
fragel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 25th, 2010, 06:45 AM   #208
greenlion
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 374
Likes (Received): 30

October 24, 2010, CNR Tangshan's CRH380BL test run at Beijing circular railway



greenlion no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 25th, 2010, 11:02 AM   #209
greenlion
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 374
Likes (Received): 30

According to IRJ, CRH380A is "China Designed" (of course it is )

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...g=content;col1

International Railway Journal, Sept, 2010

Quote:
First Chinese designed HS train breaks cover

CSR is building a fleet of very-high-speed trains will be the first such trains built in China to use only Chinese technology. They will be launched on the new Beijing - Shanghai high-speed line, due to open next year, as well as the Beijing - Guangzhou line
International Railway Journal, Sept, 2010
123Next ..CHINA'S new-generation CRH380A high-speed train has been identified as the core train for future high-speed lines like Beijing - Shanghai. CRH380A is designed to maintain a constant speed of 350km/h and a maximum of 380km/h in commercial service, although it exceeded 420km/h during test running. This will make the new train one of the fastest in commercial operation when it comes into service.

[ILLUSTRATION OMITTED]

CSR Sifang Locomotive & Rolling Stock was awarded the contract for the new-generation high-speed train by the Ministry of Railways (MOR) in 2009. The Yuan 45 billion (SUS 6.64 billion) order is for 100 16-car and 40 eight-car trains. The first train was exhibited in May at the China Railway Pavilion in the Shanghai World Expo Park (IRJ July p5).

Meanwhile an experimental CRH380A eight-car train was being tested on the China Academy of Railway Sciences experimental loop line. These tests have been completed and the train is now undergoing trial running on the Zhengzhou - Xi'an high-speed line. CSR says the tests are making good progress so far.

The first eight-car train has just rolled off the production line, and CSR will manufacture and deliver these trains in batches. According to the production plan, the first 16-car train will officially be completed in the second half of this year, and will enter service on the Beijing - Shanghai high-speed line. MOR expects this line to open during the first half of next year, but the actual date depends on construction progress.

The development of the new train started at the beginning of 2008, when CSR conducted a series of tests at speeds up to 350km/h with a CRH2 train. The development work involved experiments with models, running experiments, scientific research, and trials on four high-speed lines: Qinhuangdao - Shenyang, Beijing - Tianjin, Wuhan - Guangzhou, and Zhengzhou - Xi'an.

In all more than 1000 technical tests were conducted covering 17 specific areas such as dynamic performance, pantograph-catenary current collection, aerodynamics, and traction performance. This enabled CSR to accumulate extensive scientific test data as well as data relating to operation and maintenance. By systematically analysing the operating data, model experiments, and scientific research data, CSR discovered the relationship between the train's performance parameters and what was needed to increase the maximum speed. These results were fed into the design for the new-generation high-speed train.

To verify the quality of the design for the new high-speed train, CSR divided its design work into four categories: schematic, technical, construction, and experimentation/verification. CSR used simulation analysis as the basis for designing the train which was verified by tests and experiments. Use was also made of 3D and modeling for construction design.

In June 2009, MOR set up a team of academics and industry experts to analyse and discuss the technical scheme for the new-generation high-speed train put forward by CSR. At the analysis and discussion meeting, CSR presented more than 20 types of novel train designs and models, of which 10 were selected for further study. CSR then intensified its research to prepare for the production of the new train.

A 1:8 scale model was built and subjected to aerodynamic tests in a wind tunnel. Wind was blown at 19 different directions and eight different speeds. Noise tests were also performed in the wind tunnel.

CSR says this exhaustive process resulted in all-round innovation and an improvement in performance in 10 main areas. These include style, air tightness, a high-speed bogie design, vibration and noise reduction, the traction system, pantograph-catenary current collection, the brake system, and passenger interface.

CSR says that despite maximising the running speed, the train has met its different dynamic performance indexes. As far as core safety indexes are concerned, the derailment coefficient and the rate of wheel load reduction are far lower than the limits set.

The main systems and parts used on the new train have proven performance and running experience. Strength tests and fatigue experiments have been conducted on parts connected with running safety in accordance with relevant standards and criteria. CSR says the train has a high reliability index and its mean distance between failures has surpassed 1 million km.

By reducing sources of noise and adopting new sound absorbing and insulating materials, CSR has been able to control noise inside the train. In addition, it has optimised the bogie to match the performance of the body and improved the train's interior structure to improve the car body's natural frequency, which helps reduce the body's structural vibration during the high-speed running and improve ride comfort.

CSR optimised the car body's air tightness, enabling the train body air tightness to decrease from 4000Pa to 1000Pa in more than 180 seconds. The pressure change rate inside the train is less than 200Pa/s, with the maximum pressure change inside the train remaining below 800Pa compared with the standard value of 1000Pa. This ensures good ride quality at high speed.

Regenerative braking should result in the energy feedback rate hitting 90%. As far as external noise is concerned, CSR has streamlined the train and optimised windows and doors to improve aerodynamic performance. The nose design of the train has a resistance coefficient of <0.13. The rear car of the train has a lift coefficient of <0.08. CSR says it has been able to reduce car body aerodynamic noise by more than 5%.

Lightweight design

CSR has adopted a lightweight design so that the maximum axieload is less than 15 tonnes. When running at 380km/h, per capita energy consumption per 100km remains below 5.2kWh.

In addition, CSR has introduced a series of resistance-reducing designs such as streamlined driving cars, fully-clad windscreen, and a smooth underfloor area, which have helped to reduce aerodynamic resistance by 6%, thereby significantly reducing energy consumption. The train is designed to achieve a high level of reliability but with low maintenance costs. All electrical equipment in the train is electromagnetically compatible, and is designed to exert little electromagnetic interference both within and outside the train. In addition, the train is equipped with a sewage collection system to ensure pollution-free discharge.

The new train has various types of accommodation to meet the demands from different classes of passengers. In addition to traditional first and second-class coaches, the train can be designed to include a compartment or an entire car for VIPs, a sightseeing area, and a dining car. All seats can rotate to face the direction of travel, and a special seat has been designed for the VIP area which is large and comfortable.

All cars have toilets and washing facilities, drinks dispensers, luggage storage, and video and TV facilities. The level of catering will be determined according to the seating capacity. There are also leisure areas such as a bar. Information services will be provided including visual displays, radio, video, and audio.

CSR has high hopes for its new high-speed train. "We have realised the transition from made in China to created in China," says Mr Zhen Changhong, president of CSR. This year Zhen expects CSR to move into third place among the world's largest producers of motive power and rolling stock, and to be number one by 2012. While this is being fuelled mainly by China's huge home market, CSR expects exports to jump from 10% of turnover today to 20% in the future. IRJ

COPYRIGHT 2010 Simmons-Boardman Publishing Corporation
COPYRIGHT 2010 Gale, Cengage Learning
greenlion no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2010, 10:54 AM   #210
HyperMiler
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 240
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by wharton2010 View Post
You are right. hyper miller has a lot inferiority complex. Remember from my college history/east asian studies class, it's logical that Koreans have a lot inferiority complex in front of Japanese or Chinese.

Even thou I have never taken any high speed train in any of Japan, China or Korea, just looking at crappy shape especially the interior of Korean KTX here http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=756946 compare to Shinkansen and CRH, I conclude that I do not want ride any Korean train.
I reported above thread to mods. I am taking the mod's advice and reporting all trolling from now on.

Let's wait and see if mods will honor their promise of dealing with trolls.
HyperMiler no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2010, 12:52 PM   #211
maldini
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 766
Likes (Received): 75

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlion View Post
According to IRJ, CRH380A is "China Designed" (of course it is )

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...g=content;col1

International Railway Journal, Sept, 2010
The International Railway Journal is a very respectable and credible source.
maldini no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2010, 03:27 PM   #212
cmoonflyer
Mainland Sea & Sky
 
cmoonflyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Changchun
Posts: 6,238
Likes (Received): 73

SHANGHAI, Oct. 26 -- China put another high-speed railway into operation Tuesday morning, which links Shanghai, the country's economic hub, and Hangzhou, capital of east China's Zhejiang Province.

Two bullet trains equipped with China's CRH380A system jumpstarted simultaneously at 9:00 a.m. Tuesday from Shanghai Hongqiao Station and Hangzhou Station, marking the inaugural of the 202-km Shanghai-Hangzhou high-speed railway.

The new railway, with a maximum operational speed of 350 kilometers per hour (kmph), shortens the trip time between the two terminuses to 45 minutes from 78 minutes.









__________________
We looked at mountains until dawn, and then when dawn came, it was too pretty for me - there was pink and blue and gold, in the sky, and on icy places, brilliant pink and gold flashes, and the snow was colored too, and I said," Oh," and sighed; and each moment was more beautiful than the one before; and I said, " I love you, Momma." Then I fell asleep in her arms.
That was happiness then.

- Harold Brodkey
cmoonflyer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2010, 05:33 PM   #213
HyperMiler
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 240
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by maldini View Post
The International Railway Journal is a very respectable and credible source.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...3329bfba277511

Quote:
Although China holds the patents on the technology, design and equipment used by the CRH380 train, some in the industry question the degree to which China is justified in claiming the latest technology as its own.

"Everybody knows that a lot of the core technology is European,"
Michael Clausecker, director general of Unife, the Association of the European Rail Industry, said in a recent interview.
HyperMiler no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2010, 09:38 PM   #214
dumbfword
Habitual Line Stepper
 
dumbfword's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 293
Likes (Received): 563

Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperMiler View Post
__________________
"I am the color red in a world full of black and white"
dumbfword no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2010, 10:59 PM   #215
fragel
Registered User
 
fragel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Fragel Town, Michigan
Posts: 1,452
Likes (Received): 55

troll alert, troll alert!! oh wait, too late...

Previously the trolls claimed that 380A was a rip-off of Japanese KAWASAKI train, now they are saying the core technology of CRH 380 is European. Be a little consistent when trolling ok?
__________________
女口果人尔能句多王里解这句言舌,京尤言兑日月人尔有匕匕车交严重白勺斗又鸟目艮。
fragel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2010, 11:42 PM   #216
hmmwv
Registered User
 
hmmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,391
Likes (Received): 420

A Hangzhou TV station did a chase of the Shanghai-Hangzhou line with a ultra light chopper, but that poor little thing probably can't even go above 200kph.
hmmwv no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2010, 11:49 PM   #217
fragel
Registered User
 
fragel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Fragel Town, Michigan
Posts: 1,452
Likes (Received): 55

lol, I just watched that video(link), although it is somehow pointless(like you said that chopper is pretty slow anyway), it gives a good view of the running train from the above
__________________
女口果人尔能句多王里解这句言舌,京尤言兑日月人尔有匕匕车交严重白勺斗又鸟目艮。
fragel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2010, 04:10 AM   #218
Bandit
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 435
Likes (Received): 6

The envious nationalists trolls who can only dream contradicting themselves again. Yes, didn't you guys say it was stolen from the Japanese? Now the Europeans?





Bandit no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2010, 04:30 AM   #219
HyperMiler
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 240
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
The envious nationalists trolls who can only dream contradicting themselves again.
I reported above post as a flame bait.
HyperMiler no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 27th, 2010, 04:32 AM   #220
HyperMiler
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 240
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by fragel View Post
Previously the trolls claimed that 380A was a rip-off of Japanese KAWASAKI train, now they are saying the core technology of CRH 380 is European. Be a little consistent when trolling ok?
I think he was talking about CRH380B.

But CRH380A does seem to have a Velaro bogie under a Shinkansen body.
HyperMiler no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
china

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium