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Old October 28th, 2010, 11:06 AM   #241
yaohua2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dumbfword View Post
Train coupler I believe. Does China plan to couple two 16 train sets?
And in emergency, it is possible to rescue a CRH train with a locomotive with the coupler.
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Old October 28th, 2010, 12:13 PM   #242
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The director general of Unife, the Association of the European Rail Industry Michael Clausecker claimed that the train is of European origin. Now the Chinese and Japanese and newspaper are saying that the train is of Japanese origin. What does it mean ? What is the conclusion ?

But I am pretty sure that this " Shanzhai " train is still way way better than the more-than-a-decade reverse engineering effort of the French TGV that led to the development Hyundai Rotem products.

Last edited by snow is red; October 28th, 2010 at 12:22 PM.
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Old October 28th, 2010, 12:25 PM   #243
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It looks like everyone wants a bit of this glory/profit i guess.
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Old October 28th, 2010, 12:48 PM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperMiler View Post
http://world.huanqiu.com/roll/2010-10/1204676.html

CCP newspaper Huanqiu is reporting that Japan's Sankei Shinbun declared CRH380A to be a Shanzhai Shinkansen. Chinese government is of course denying CRH380A being Shanzhai.

For non-Chinese readers, here is an English version.

http://justrecently.wordpress.com/
I don't think the Japanese can just declare the CRH380 as Shinkansen.
1) Japanese/Europeans have never looked at the detailed design of the CRH380 train.
2) Europeans are also claiming the same thing. So Is it Japanese or European?
3) The fact is that the CRH380 is a Chinese indigenous design. Japan is just jealous of China's research and design capability.
4) The Chinese CRH380 was has a higher speed than the Shinkansen and the speed was tested using the most sophisticated equipment to be safe.

Last edited by maldini; October 28th, 2010 at 01:02 PM.
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Old October 28th, 2010, 01:01 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by HyperMiler View Post
That's a short term gain at the expense of a long-term loss.


Yes, but the contract reads that transferred technology must be used only to license produce CRH models within China, all other use violates the term of license.

There is a deep misunderstanding among Chinese that licensed technology transfer means an unrestricted free use, or even an ownership of technology. That's not the case.
1) There is no one who has complained about the violation of contracts.

2) The CRH380 is Chinese indigenous effort, so it does not contradict any contracts.
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Old October 28th, 2010, 04:39 PM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snow is red View Post
Now the Chinese and Japanese and newspaper are saying that the train is of Japanese origin.
CRH380A : Japanese origin + German bogie. A frankenstein of sort.
CRH380B : German origin
CRH380C : Canadian/German origin.

Quote:
But I am pretty sure that this " Shanzhai " train is still way way better than the more-than-a-decade reverse engineering effort of the French TGV that led to the development Hyundai Rotem products.
The reverse engineered train is legal in the US and Europe.
The Shanzhai train is not legal in the US and Europe.

That's the difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maldini View Post
I don't think the Japanese can just declare the CRH380 as Shinkansen.
Japanese aren't declaring CRH380A to be a Shinkansen; they are declaring it a Shanzhai Shinkansen.

Quote:
1) Japanese/Europeans have never looked at the detailed design of the CRH380 train.
CRH380A : Some minor cosmetic changes.
CRH380B : CNR didn't even bother to change the styling from Velaro.

Quote:
2) Europeans are also claiming the same thing. So Is it Japanese or European?
CRH380A : Japanese + German.
CRH380B : German
CRH380C : Canadian/German + Chinese

Quote:
3) The fact is that the CRH380 is a Chinese indigenous design.
Japanese and Europeans strongly disagree.

Quote:
4) The Chinese CRH380 was has a higher speed than the Shinkansen
Other train models can run above 400 km/hr. They choose not to do it because it's not safe to do so.

At least Chinese does have the benefit of having the best track in the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maldini View Post
1) There is no one who has complained about the violation of contracts.
Well, you keep missing the news of how Siemens CEO complained directly in person to Prime Minister Wen of China. Maybe the complaints in China is futile when it goes all the way up to the Prime Minister and nothing gets done.

Quote:
2) The CRH380 is Chinese indigenous effort, so it does not contradict any contracts.
CRH380A and CRH380B are unauthorized Chinese indigenous modification effort of existing foreign train models licensed to Chinese.
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Old October 28th, 2010, 08:41 PM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperMiler View Post
That's a short term gain at the expense of a long-term loss.


Yes, but the contract reads that transferred technology must be used only to license produce CRH models within China, all other use violates the term of license.

There is a deep misunderstanding among Chinese that licensed technology transfer means an unrestricted free use, or even an ownership of technology. That's not the case.
Let us suffer the long term loss, but why are you so upset? You should be happy to see China will have long term loss.
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Old October 28th, 2010, 10:05 PM   #248
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Notice the dreamer provides no proof. Charges are not proof. All those pictures are pissing off a lot of childhood fantasies out there.
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Old October 28th, 2010, 11:45 PM   #249
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Holy cow what part of DONT FEED THE TROLL you guys don't understand? Drop the bashing and get back on topic.

Speaking of EMU rescue, shouldn't the train set be carrying a small internal combustion engine or small gas turbine generator to power the train in case the over head line loses power? I remembered in 2007 a DF has to be sent to tow a CRH5 in a snowstorm.
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Old October 29th, 2010, 10:20 AM   #250
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Theres only one train as far as I know to have an auxilliary power - the UK's IEP programme. A programme that looks like it'll be scrapped due to being unduly complicated and costly.

If the overhead line loses power the game is pretty much over anyway - its not as if the stuck train needs to get out of the way of the other trains - which will also be stuck. Such an event is quite rare though.
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Old October 29th, 2010, 08:09 PM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperMiler View Post
Spain doesn't have a completely indigenous train model. Talgo is a coach car manufacturer, with the locomotive provided by Bombardier.

Ditto for CAF, who works with Alstom.

Since Spain doesn't have an indigenous high speed train technology, they ended up using foreign technology of different origins.
Well, Talgo developed first his own locomotive made by Talgo and Ingeletric-TEAM ( Indigenous technology ) ,Talgo has his own technology on bogies ( variable gauge ), cars and of course uses others parts technology as do many others is a common practice you should know this, TGV has bombardier components so do Velaro of Siemens.
C.A.F has developed his own bogies variable gauge ( indigenous technology ), and many of the electric components. They have an excellent R+D department they have built many metro lines in the world and the last trains ordered in Spain are made by Talgo or CAF.
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Old October 29th, 2010, 08:20 PM   #252
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aleandik, please, don't feed the troll!
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Old October 29th, 2010, 08:22 PM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makita09 View Post
Theres only one train as far as I know to have an auxilliary power - the UK's IEP programme. .
In Spain, Talgo is developing the new T250 Hybrid link here:

http://www.talgo.com/index.php/en/hibrido.php
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Old October 29th, 2010, 08:23 PM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makita09 View Post
Theres only one train as far as I know to have an auxilliary power - the UK's IEP programme. A programme that looks like it'll be scrapped due to being unduly complicated and costly.

If the overhead line loses power the game is pretty much over anyway - its not as if the stuck train needs to get out of the way of the other trains - which will also be stuck. Such an event is quite rare though.
Interesting, I think there were multiple incidents during the past couple winters that sections of the HSR overhead lines lost power due to local power outage (icing on the transmission lines link the substation with the overhead). In cases like this, the train loses all power and put passengers in danger, if there is a small APU then the train can at least travel to the nearest station slowly.
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Old October 29th, 2010, 09:50 PM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
Notice the dreamer provides no proof. Charges are not proof. All those pictures are pissing off a lot of childhood fantasies out there.
This has been reported as being an irrelevant post derailing the topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aleantik View Post
They have an excellent R+D department they have built many metro lines in the world and the last trains ordered in Spain are made by Talgo or CAF.
The problem is that the competition for HSR equipment is getting extremely competitive and those bidders from countries with weaker industrial background will likely not prevail, and Spain is not exactly a country with a strong manufacturing industry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luli Pop View Post
aleandik, please, don't feed the troll!
He is not.
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Old October 29th, 2010, 10:37 PM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperMiler View Post

The problem is that the competition for HSR equipment is getting extremely competitive and those bidders from countries with weaker industrial background will likely not prevail, and Spain is not exactly a country with a strong manufacturing industry.


He is not.
????????????????? No comment

http://www.caf.es/ingles/home/index.php

http://www.talgo.com/index.php/en/home.php
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Old October 30th, 2010, 05:53 AM   #257
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CRH380BL, the green train behind it is the Qinghai-Tibet Express

thanks to www.railwayfans.com poster 京长直达Z61














Last edited by greenlion; October 31st, 2010 at 02:45 PM.
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Old October 30th, 2010, 08:27 AM   #258
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CRH380A (or whichever the Zefiro-based one is) finally has CRH's first real classy paint job. Good job with the nose treatment.

It would be even nicer if the silver element would draw into a stripe to parallel the blue stripe along the length of the train. The other CRHs should follow suit, and CRH will have its own unique livery in the world.
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Old October 30th, 2010, 09:44 AM   #259
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Cool trains! One of my friends rode the one to Shanghai a few weeks ago.

I wonder how much of the speed difference is due to different regulations? Here in North America, trains have to be super heavy and strong because they are supposed to survive anything, while I know in Europe/Japan they just design the system so that the train will have a minimal chance of hitting other trains/derail so they can make much lighter trains.

Considering these Chinese trains are basically reverse engineered or add-ons of foreign technology, I wonder if they just stripped a bunch of components, put the power up a bit and are running them beyond what the Europeans/Japanese would safely run it at.

Do these trains run on dedicated tracks? From the above pictures, it looks almost as if it just runs on regular tracks which is surprising, unless these are trains just pulling out of the station/yard.

Either way, I wish our government here in Canada would actually put a bit more money towards trains but that'll never happen even if one of the premier HSR companies in the world is based in Canada.
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Old October 30th, 2010, 09:53 AM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epi View Post
Cool trains! One of my friends rode the one to Shanghai a few weeks ago.

I wonder how much of the speed difference is due to different regulations? Here in North America, trains have to be super heavy and strong because they are supposed to survive anything, while I know in Europe/Japan they just design the system so that the train will have a minimal chance of hitting other trains/derail so they can make much lighter trains.

Considering these Chinese trains are basically reverse engineered or add-ons of foreign technology, I wonder if they just stripped a bunch of components, put the power up a bit and are running them beyond what the Europeans/Japanese would safely run it at.

Do these trains run on dedicated tracks? From the above pictures, it looks almost as if it just runs on regular tracks which is surprising, unless these are trains just pulling out of the station/yard.

Either way, I wish our government here in Canada would actually put a bit more money towards trains but that'll never happen even if one of the premier HSR companies in the world is based in Canada.
the above pics shows a CRH380BL at a test railway in Beijing, It's a regular railway for test new trains only, in actual service CRH trains runs at both regular tracks ( upgrade to 200km/h) and dedicated tracks (newly constructed lines at speed level 250km/h or 350km/h)

Isn't Bombardier a Canadian cpmpany?
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