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Old November 23rd, 2010, 08:35 AM   #321
greenlion
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CRH380A-6041L on it's way to Jinghu PDL,


380AL & 380BL at Beijing ring railway from Railwayfans forumer Haoyuan


CRH2-061C, CRH380A-6041L, CRH380B-6401L & CRH380B-6402L starts test run at the Jinghu PDL.

Last edited by greenlion; November 24th, 2010 at 09:17 AM.
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Old November 24th, 2010, 09:15 AM   #322
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Source: bbs.ourail.com and www.railwayfan.net

CRH380A-6041L and CRH5-085A

CRH380B-6402L
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Old November 24th, 2010, 06:41 PM   #323
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Thanks for the updates, greenlion.
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Old November 24th, 2010, 11:02 PM   #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bird01 View Post
The tunnels of 350km/h rail roads in China have much bigger cross-sections. For example, the 10km-tunnel of Liu Yang river has the cross section of 160 m^2. Two trains can pass each other in the tunnel under the river at the speeds of 350km/h. The relative speed between two trains can be over 700km/h.
The high speed trains in china don't need very long nose to cross the tunnels because they (tunnels) have very large cross-sections.
Also remember, China is not an island of Volcanoes (extensive large-diameter tunneling was VERY expensive 30 years ago).
China also doesn't have as strict noise pollution laws.

Most of speed limitations in Japan are down to two things:
  • Old track (2500m radius on Tokaido line limits speed)
  • Noise concerns. The Tunnel boom.

Case in point, the new Tohoku line is dialed down to 320kph from its design goals of 360kph largely because of the number of tunnels along the route and the associated tunnel boom that results in each one. Also, one of the main reasons they went with a single pantograph design on the FasTech360 was for noise.

There were other "economical" concerns with running a speed at that speed, but you can't ignore noise in Japan.

That's the reason for much of the exterior design differences between Japanese and European trains.

Also, much of China's infrastructure is built more recently. Tunnelling technology has come a long way in the past 40 years. Projects like "The Big Dig" in Boston were unimaginably expensive and complex in the 60s. China, like the US, is a large country and people need to travel large distances.

In short, different parameters, different design considerations.

Japan has demonstrated that you can stably have two trains pass each other at a combined speed of over 1000km/h with its Mag-Lev. Technologically, I'm sure it's no problem. It's that these lines are built in a much more difficult environment and have very high standards. Unfortunately, people still focus on the top speed number.
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Old November 24th, 2010, 11:16 PM   #325
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If anyone's interested, Wikipedia's entry on Population has population density for Asia.

India, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, The Phillipines and others all have 300+ ppl/km2, which is double China's population density.
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Old November 24th, 2010, 11:25 PM   #326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemeansgo View Post
If anyone's interested, Wikipedia's entry on Population has population density for Asia.

India, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, The Phillipines and others all have 300+ ppl/km2, which is double China's population density.
China's populatation distribution is very skewed to the East. Population density for the eastern plain containing the vast majority of Chinese population, far exceeds 300 ppl/km^2.

Hunan - 316 / km^2
Shandong - 600 / km^2
Jiangsu - 736 / km^2
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Old November 25th, 2010, 12:20 AM   #327
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Yup

If you remove 4 chinese provinces that are basically all desert/steppe/mountain and have no people - that removes more than half the land area of china

Have a look at the map below

http://sedac.ciesin.columbia.edu/gpw/
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Old November 26th, 2010, 07:10 AM   #328
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CRH380A test run at Wuguang PDL


CRH380A-6022, 6023, 6024, 6025, 6026 has been distributed to Wuhan Railway Bureau, now doing test run between Wuhan and Miluo, will come into sevice at the Wuguang PDL after the test run
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Old November 26th, 2010, 09:13 AM   #329
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Some news sites and also Wikipedia say that the energy use on Beijing - Shanghai will be 80kWh per passenger.

Does anyone know the original source of that? Thanks.
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Old November 26th, 2010, 11:30 AM   #330
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Impossible, like CRH380AL, 20440KW for 1230 passenger.

Last edited by Nordschleife; November 26th, 2010 at 11:38 AM.
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Old November 26th, 2010, 01:58 PM   #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemeansgo View Post
Also remember, China is not an island of Volcanoes (extensive large-diameter tunneling was VERY expensive 30 years ago).
China also doesn't have as strict noise pollution laws.

Most of speed limitations in Japan are down to two things:
  • Old track (2500m radius on Tokaido line limits speed)
  • Noise concerns. The Tunnel boom.

Case in point, the new Tohoku line is dialed down to 320kph from its design goals of 360kph largely because of the number of tunnels along the route and the associated tunnel boom that results in each one. Also, one of the main reasons they went with a single pantograph design on the FasTech360 was for noise.

There were other "economical" concerns with running a speed at that speed, but you can't ignore noise in Japan.

That's the reason for much of the exterior design differences between Japanese and European trains.

Also, much of China's infrastructure is built more recently. Tunnelling technology has come a long way in the past 40 years. Projects like "The Big Dig" in Boston were unimaginably expensive and complex in the 60s. China, like the US, is a large country and people need to travel large distances.

In short, different parameters, different design considerations.

Japan has demonstrated that you can stably have two trains pass each other at a combined speed of over 1000km/h with its Mag-Lev. Technologically, I'm sure it's no problem. It's that these lines are built in a much more difficult environment and have very high standards. Unfortunately, people still focus on the top speed number.
Tunnel boom is an issue in Japan due to the narrow diameter of Japan's tunnels. This is also the reason behind the "long nose" that is a charactristic of Japanese high speed trains, which is needed to preice through the pressure wall.

The noise of the tunnel boom is a non-issue in most other parts of the world, including China.
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Old November 26th, 2010, 03:51 PM   #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33Hz View Post
Some news sites and also Wikipedia say that the energy use on Beijing - Shanghai will be 80kWh per passenger.

Does anyone know the original source of that? Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordschleife View Post

Impossible, like CRH380AL, 20440KW for 1230 passenger.
Too me it sound a bit high, but with some quick calculations I come up with:

20440 kW / 1230 people = 16,6 kW/person

And with a rail journey time of 4 hours it would mean that:

16.6 kW/person * 4 hours = 66.5 kW/person/journey between Beijing and Shanghai.

But then again a train doesn't draw full power at all times so that number will be somewhat lower in real life...
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Old November 26th, 2010, 07:25 PM   #333
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Yeah, you guys are right. It looks like someone has just said:

20MW
4 hours
1000 passengers

*this is why wikipedia without reference links is dangerous* :-)


So if anyone knows the true answer, please post. Much appreciated.
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Old November 26th, 2010, 08:36 PM   #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loefet View Post
Too me it sound a bit high, but with some quick calculations I come up with:

20440 kW / 1230 people = 16,6 kW/person

And with a rail journey time of 4 hours it would mean that:

16.6 kW/person * 4 hours = 66.5 kW/person/journey between Beijing and Shanghai.

But then again a train doesn't draw full power at all times so that number will be somewhat lower in real life...
I suppose you mean 66.5 kWh/person/journey. kW is power, kWh is energy.
BTW: for comparison: A litre of diesel is 10kWh... However to produce 66.5 kWh you'd need to burn about three times that much coal, or two times that much gas, so primary energy use is would be between 120 and 180 kWh.
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Old November 27th, 2010, 06:11 AM   #335
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Oh KWh, my mistake. But still, 20440KW is the maximal power, cruise at 350Km/h only need about half of that power, that's about 35KWh per person, 5 litre of diesel or 8 kilo of coal to produce that amount of power. Campare to the aeroplane, like 737, take 120 person from Shanghai to Beijing, will comsume about 4 tons of jet fuel, that's 33 litre. Let alone the energy take a person from Beijing airport to the downtown area.

Last edited by Nordschleife; November 27th, 2010 at 06:19 AM.
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Old November 28th, 2010, 02:05 AM   #336
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CRH380A-6041L finished 380km/h test run at Jinghu PDL Zaozhuang-Bengbu section, 450km/h test to be lauched soon, should be CRH380BL, CIT400A or CIT400B

Video: CRH380BL

http://bbs.ourail.com/thread-91463-1-1.html

Last edited by greenlion; November 28th, 2010 at 02:15 AM.
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Old November 28th, 2010, 04:20 AM   #337
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2010.11.27 Top speed of CRH380A-6041L reach 452 km/h near Xuzhou, still waiting for further comfirmation
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Old November 28th, 2010, 05:22 AM   #338
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Alright, if confirmed another world record.
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Old November 28th, 2010, 02:44 PM   #339
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2010.11.28, CRH380A-6041L scores 455.5km/h

Guys this should be the first ever HSR train competition in worlds' history, as new record comes out every day. I bet the MOR won't publish official news until the final result is decided.

based on different forum, trains in this competition are:

Unmodified train set:
CRH2-061C, CRH2-068C,CRH380A-6041L and CRH380B-6401L.

modified train set
a short version of CRH380BL, 8M4T

special test train:
CIT400a and CIT400b
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Old November 28th, 2010, 08:39 PM   #340
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This is crazy, I thought the 416kph record will be there for a while. I really hope no one is pushing the train too hard just to set a record.
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