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Old November 28th, 2010, 08:59 PM   #341
gramercy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
This is crazy, I thought the 416kph record will be there for a while. I really hope no one is pushing the train too hard just to set a record.
why not, thats what records are all about
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Old November 28th, 2010, 10:32 PM   #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
This is crazy, I thought the 416kph record will be there for a while. I really hope no one is pushing the train too hard just to set a record.
Most of the time, testing means pushing it until it breaks After these test runs, some parts may need changing.
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Old November 28th, 2010, 11:41 PM   #343
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Originally Posted by Nordschleife View Post
Oh KWh, my mistake. But still, 20440KW is the maximal power, cruise at 350Km/h only need about half of that power, that's about 35KWh per person, 5 litre of diesel or 8 kilo of coal to produce that amount of power. Campare to the aeroplane, like 737, take 120 person from Shanghai to Beijing, will comsume about 4 tons of jet fuel, that's 33 litre. Let alone the energy take a person from Beijing airport to the downtown area.
What's the source for the 20440kW and the 350km/h cruise power? Most sources say 18.4MW for the 380BL.
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Old November 29th, 2010, 03:02 AM   #344
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20440KW for the 380AL.
8800KW could easily get a 8 carriage train accelerate to 416 Km/h, why couldn't 10000KW to keep a 16 carriage at 350km/h since most of the drag is at the nose of the train at that speed?
Well it's a guess, which means it still has 0.13m/s^2 residual acceleration at 350km/h, kind of impossible...
Anyone could tell me the real residual acceleration at that speed of 380AL, I can't find it.

Last edited by Nordschleife; November 29th, 2010 at 03:19 AM.
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Old November 29th, 2010, 03:25 AM   #345
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Chinese indigenous trains are just like the Chinese "improved" version of iPods et al. Some of the technology is legally licensed, parts are stolen, some of it is truly indigenous.

Problem is: China is a huge economy and trading partner for the West. Even though they don't respect intellectual rights, the West has to shut up and deal with it, so we can keep on doing business with them. Actually it's not unheard off that Western companies have to forge joint ventures with Chinese companies that engaged in product piracy before. That way they can at least get a share of the profit that is done with the stolen IP. The downside is that we transfer technology down there and in the long run it will harm our economy.

Despite all the Chinese propaganda here, China could have never achieved its high speed rail project without massive foreign technology and help. Nevertheless it is quite impressive. Yet all these claims should be taken with caution, as China is not exactly known for being a very open society and caring much about freedom of speech and information.
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Old November 29th, 2010, 05:18 AM   #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
Most of the time, testing means pushing it until it breaks After these test runs, some parts may need changing.
I guess what I meant is I get nervous when they kept on breaking records with unmodified (or slightly modified) trains on commercial routes, anything that goes wrong will have lasting effects for the entire line. They can, and should try to break records to push technology innovation, but do so on dedicated test rings. I understand that the current tests are done to find out the maximum operating speed of unmodified trains on commercial tracks, but the speed shouldn't exceed what they have achieved on the test tracks. Which also leads me to wonder, if they got 455kph on regular tracks, how fast can a heavily modified CRH380 go on the test ring.
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Old November 29th, 2010, 06:25 AM   #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rheintram View Post
Yet all these claims should be taken with caution, as China is not exactly known for being a very open society and caring much about freedom of speech and information.
Is this really necessary?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
I guess what I meant is I get nervous when they kept on breaking records with unmodified (or slightly modified) trains on commercial routes, anything that goes wrong will have lasting effects for the entire line. They can, and should try to break records to push technology innovation, but do so on dedicated test rings. I understand that the current tests are done to find out the maximum operating speed of unmodified trains on commercial tracks, but the speed shouldn't exceed what they have achieved on the test tracks. Which also leads me to wonder, if they got 455kph on regular tracks, how fast can a heavily modified CRH380 go on the test ring.
I don't think the test trains on the test track go anywhere near the speed they reach on the high speed lines. I haven't seen any pictures or info that theres a test track that's built like the high speed lines, so far it seems the trains are operating on regular tracks.
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Old November 29th, 2010, 08:36 AM   #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordschleife View Post
20440KW for the 380AL.
8800KW could easily get a 8 carriage train accelerate to 416 Km/h, why couldn't 10000KW to keep a 16 carriage at 350km/h since most of the drag is at the nose of the train at that speed?
I think that is a bit of a mis-assumption. Most of the drag is skin friction from the coaches and drag from the gaps between and under them. I read this is 90% of the drag. So a 2x longer train doubles this part of the drag.
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Old November 29th, 2010, 09:10 AM   #349
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May I add two points

1. One can argue similarly:
Despite all the US propaganda here, US could have never achieved its moon landing project without massive foreign technology and help (the chief designer of the rocket is a German who also did the V-2 rocket for the Nazis). Nevertheless it is quite impressive.

2. The ipods are Western technology in name only, it is mainly designed by
Asians (Indians and Chinese) who happen to live in the US.
Visit Apple co. in the bay area and take a look yourself.

Cheers,
Laojang






Quote:
Originally Posted by rheintram View Post
Chinese indigenous trains are just like the Chinese "improved" version of iPods et al. Some of the technology is legally licensed, parts are stolen, some of it is truly indigenous.

Problem is: China is a huge economy and trading partner for the West. Even though they don't respect intellectual rights, the West has to shut up and deal with it, so we can keep on doing business with them. Actually it's not unheard off that Western companies have to forge joint ventures with Chinese companies that engaged in product piracy before. That way they can at least get a share of the profit that is done with the stolen IP. The downside is that we transfer technology down there and in the long run it will harm our economy.

Despite all the Chinese propaganda here, China could have never achieved its high speed rail project without massive foreign technology and help. Nevertheless it is quite impressive. Yet all these claims should be taken with caution, as China is not exactly known for being a very open society and caring much about freedom of speech and information.
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Old November 29th, 2010, 09:43 AM   #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozumi 300 View Post
I don't think the test trains on the test track go anywhere near the speed they reach on the high speed lines. I haven't seen any pictures or info that theres a test track that's built like the high speed lines, so far it seems the trains are operating on regular tracks.
Right, the current test tracks are probably not straight and long enough to get to 455kph, it seems to me that at least now there is no rush in China to beat the 574kph conventional rail speed record.
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Old November 29th, 2010, 10:22 AM   #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33Hz View Post
I think that is a bit of a mis-assumption. Most of the drag is skin friction from the coaches and drag from the gaps between and under them. I read this is 90% of the drag. So a 2x longer train doubles this part of the drag.
I am always told at high speed double the speed require eightfold the power, well, for a ball, not a train...

Last edited by Nordschleife; November 29th, 2010 at 10:42 AM.
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Old November 29th, 2010, 11:19 AM   #352
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Exactly. And that is due to wind resistance.
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Old November 29th, 2010, 11:51 AM   #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rheintram View Post
Chinese indigenous trains are just like the Chinese "improved" version of iPods et al. Some of the technology is legally licensed, parts are stolen, some of it is truly indigenous.

Problem is: China is a huge economy and trading partner for the West. Even though they don't respect intellectual rights, the West has to shut up and deal with it, so we can keep on doing business with them. Actually it's not unheard off that Western companies have to forge joint ventures with Chinese companies that engaged in product piracy before. That way they can at least get a share of the profit that is done with the stolen IP. The downside is that we transfer technology down there and in the long run it will harm our economy.

Despite all the Chinese propaganda here, China could have never achieved its high speed rail project without massive foreign technology and help. Nevertheless it is quite impressive. Yet all these claims should be taken with caution, as China is not exactly known for being a very open society and caring much about freedom of speech and information.
You mean like how Europe was basically chucking spears and shooting arrows at one another for thousands of years before being exposed to Chinese and other foreign weapons?
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Old November 29th, 2010, 12:13 PM   #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
You mean like how Europe was basically chucking spears and shooting arrows at one another for thousands of years before being exposed to Chinese and other foreign weapons?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_fire
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Old November 30th, 2010, 01:30 AM   #355
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the newest source imply top speed of CRH380A-6041L exceeded 480Km/h

CRH380B-6402L starts test run today
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Old November 30th, 2010, 02:34 AM   #356
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More than 480km/h?? That is nice, much higher than what I was expecting. Hope to see some pictures and official announcements.
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Old November 30th, 2010, 02:44 AM   #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laojang View Post
May I add two points


2. The ipods are Western technology in name only, it is mainly designed by
Asians (Indians and Chinese) who happen to live in the US.
Visit Apple co. in the bay area and take a look yourself.

Cheers,
Laojang
Where is your proof, please post here. Would be interesting to see
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Old November 30th, 2010, 04:08 AM   #358
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dear forumers: DON'T FEED THE TROLL!!!
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Old November 30th, 2010, 04:25 AM   #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlion View Post
the newest source imply top speed of CRH380A-6041L exceeded 480Km/h

CRH380B-6402L starts test run today
any idea why there is no official report on the test results?
I hope they could at least disclose some info before the UIC HSR conference.
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Old November 30th, 2010, 04:30 AM   #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fragel View Post
any idea why there is no official report on the test results?
I hope they could at least disclose some info before the UIC HSR conference.
I think there will be official news published before UIC HSR conference, IMO the MOR won't confirm any infomations until the final results is decided
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