CHINA | High Speed Trainsets

[foxmulder]

Originally Posted by Slagathor

... I welcome all progress of humanity regardless of where it takes place.

Amen to that

[Bandit]

I love the smell of envy in the morning. Some can only dream.

[K_]

Originally Posted by Stainless

Are platforms in Germany long enough for the >400m trains? or is the issue that they don't think they can get enough business to fill a long train? Anyway I thought the splitting idea was so all passengers moved to one half of the train in an emergency, how can they do that with 2 trains stuck together unless they have adjoining doors?

Two ICE sets are 400m long, long enough to be allowed in the Channel tunnel (the minimum length required is something like 300m). And DB already runs trains like that in Germany. 400m is also the standard maximum train length under the European interoperability standards. All large railway stations have platforms long enough to accomodate such trains.

The minimum length requirement of the Channel Tunnel might be revised btw, as in practice no incident has happend so far where passengers were evacuated by splitting a train in half.

[K_]

Originally Posted by BarbaricManchurian

they made some technical improvements, of course

How much is "technical improvements" and how much is "pushing the enveloppe".
In Europe, for a train to be certified to run at speed X it must demonstrate that it can run safely at speed X+10%. The Siemens Velaro-E is certified for 350kph, so it can safely run at up to 385 kph. This train has run at a speed of 400.3 kph, which is a record for an unmodified, stock train.
So it is possible that the higher speeds of the Chinese versions of European HSTs are just a result of the application of different safety margins. Is it a coincidence that so many Chinese trains are about 10% faster than their European or Japanese counterparts?

[dumbfword]

Doesn't Deutsche Bahn pretty much only buy Siemens high speed trains?

[33Hz]

Two ICE sets may be 400m long, but the point is you can't walk between them. (Yes I know it's ridiculous.)

The issue of filing them is another matter. I'm pretty sure they are considering a spilt with one going to Amsterdam. But as an alternative, I think this service will need more than average numbers of business class seats and facilities.

[greenlion]

Originally Posted by K_

How much is "technical improvements" and how much is "pushing the enveloppe".
In Europe, for a train to be certified to run at speed X it must demonstrate that it can run safely at speed X+10%. The Siemens Velaro-E is certified for 350kph, so it can safely run at up to 385 kph. This train has run at a speed of 400.3 kph, which is a record for an unmodified, stock train.
So it is possible that the higher speeds of the Chinese versions of European HSTs are just a result of the application of different safety margins. Is it a coincidence that so many Chinese trains are about 10% faster than their European or Japanese counterparts?

designed top speed for CRH380 series is 420km/h, and the test speed reached 440km/h so far

[K_]

Originally Posted by greenlion

designed top speed for CRH380 series is 420km/h, and the test speed reached 440km/h so far

So they are keeping the 10% safety margin. That is good. China's progress in high speed rail is remarkable. It would be a tragedy if they also were to set the record for worst high speed rail disaster...

[K_]

Originally Posted by 33Hz

Two ICE sets may be 400m long, but the point is you can't walk between them. (Yes I know it's ridiculous.)

Inconvenient, yes, but why is it "ridiculous"?

[HyperMiler]

Originally Posted by greenlion

designed top speed for CRH380 series is 420km/h, and the test speed reached 440km/h so far

Highly unlikely.

1. CRH380A's power output is no better than other EMUs, and is no improvement over CRH2 and CRH3.
2. The track where the 440 km/hr trial is claimed to have taken place is a 250 km/hr track.

[The Chemist]

Originally Posted by HyperMiler

Highly unlikely.

1. CRH380A's power output is no better than other EMUs, and is no improvement over CRH2 and CRH3.
2. The track where the 440 km/hr trial is claimed to have taken place is a 250 km/hr track.

1. Source?
2. So? The track where the TGV set its record setting run of 574km/h (LGV Est) in 2007 is only a 350km/h track.

[greenlion]

Recently news in Chinese media suggests that as a series of new CRH contract will be signed by Chinese MOR and the for Chinese factories, considering at least 1000 km high speed railway at 250km/h level set to be open by next year, and so far the MOR had only ordered 320 trains at this level, so a majority of the new contract will be 250km/h level trains.

Chinese CRH deliver timetable (by contract signed before september 2010)

type       2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 later   total
CRH1A        8   18   12    2   20   20           80
CRH2A       19   41             15   5            80
CRH5A            27   29    4   30                90
CRH1B                  4    9    7                20
CRH1E                       3    8   9            20
CRH2B                 10                          10
CRH2E                  6   14                     20
CRH2C                 10   20   30                60
CRH3C                  7   36   17                60
CRH380A                         40                40
CRH380AL                         6   94          100
CRH380B                         20   20   20 *    60
CRH380BL                        11   49   80 *   140
CRH380C                                   20 **   20
CRH380CL                                  60 **   60
total       27   86   78   88  204  197  180     860
accumulate  27  113  191  279  483  680  860     860

* all CRH380B contract to be deliver before 2012
** all CRH380C contract to be deliver before 2014

Dollar Normalized for Unit price in most recently contract

250km/h, 8 cars per set (first generation CRH)
CRH1A : 19.3 million/set
CRH2A : 25.3 million/set
CRH5A : 23.8 million/set

250km/h, 16 cars per set (second generation CRH)
CRH1B+E : 32.6 million/set avg
CRH2B : 17.8 million/set
CRH2E : 22.3 million/set

300km/h, 8 cars per set (third generation CRH)
CRH2C : 20.2 million/set

350km/h, 8 cars per set (third generation CRH)
CRH3C : 32.2 million/set

380km/h, 8 cars per set (fourth generation CRH)
CRH380A: 27.98 million/set
CRH380B: 29.1 million/set
CRH380C:29.2 million/set

380 km/h, 16 cars per train (fourth generation CRH)
CRH380AL: 55.96 million/set
CRH380BL: 58.2 million/set
CRH380CL: 58.4 million/set

[foxmulder]

I like the term "fourth generation CRH" With 380km/h top speed those trains deserve it..

[greenlion]

CRH380A set new record of world HSR operating speed

Congratulations to CSR Sifang Factory!

at 11:40 AM, September 28, 2010, Top speed of a CRH380A train during trial operation on Shanghai-Hangzhou PDL HSR reached 416.6 km/h (259 mph). Break China & World record on non-maglev high-speed rail operating speed, the previous world record was 403.7 km/h (251 mph) reached by Siemens Velaro In July 2006, and previous China record was 394.3 km/h (245mph) reached by CRH3C on June 24, 2008, on the Wuguang PDL

and in later news, the CRH380A finished the 202 km Huhang PDL travel in 40 minutes at a average speed of 303km/h.

http://www.cs.com.cn/sylm/jsbd/20100...8_2610558.html

the Huhang PDL is a 350km/h class HSR line set to open by October, 2010, and the designed travel time from Shanghai to hangzhou is 38 minute, at wverage speed of 318.947 km/h

[Ariel74]

I heard that it rained on the day of this trial, which might have prevented it from achieving an even higher speed.

In any case, for a 380km/h class train to maintain a 10% safety margin, they need to test it at the speed of 418km/h. 416.6km/h is quite close though.

[Slagathor]

Originally Posted by dumbfword

lol. With that little comment it's like the pot calling the kettle black.

Yeah sorry about that, I thought I'd reward a senseless comment with a bigoted reply

[33Hz]

Originally Posted by K_

Inconvenient, yes, but why is it "ridiculous"?

The requirement is ridiculous.

Hopefully DB will win the day and the authorities see sense.

[HyperMiler]

Originally Posted by greenlion

the previous world record was 403.7 km/h (251 mph) reached by Siemens Velaro In July 2006, and previous China record was 394.3 km/h (245mph) reached by CRH3C on June 24, 2008

So this is the effect of coupling Velaro bogie with lighter Shinkansen's body.

[fragel]

whatever the cause of the effect is, I see that effect make you unhappy again, not to mention that your claim of 'Highly unlikely' failed miserably. Nah, don't bother saying anything to me, I am just happy to see that you kinda people are unhappy.

[plasmalover]

Originally Posted by Bandit

I love the smell of envy in the morning. Some can only dream.

I am definitely dreaming this morning as I wonder in awe how the heck will the US build the $117B northeast line while China is leaping everyone in the HSR network.