daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old December 4th, 2010, 06:10 AM   #441
foxmulder
Registered User
 
foxmulder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,135
Likes (Received): 381

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbz View Post
I guess overhead lines you meant here is pantograph contact with overhead line, i am curious as well how pantograph is designed given huge friction generated at high speed, and this friction is not rolling friction like wheel. I did a little bit research, only found that pantograph contact carbon strip in existing market can only sustain for 300+ kmh.
I believe cable tension is as important as material used pantograph surface, if not more. Probably, electrical cables on these lines have much higher tension than old school high speed lines so they don't fluctuate as much hence lower friction.
foxmulder no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old December 4th, 2010, 06:11 AM   #442
foxmulder
Registered User
 
foxmulder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,135
Likes (Received): 381

Awesome pictures Nordschleife, tnx for sharing. Higher resolution pictures will be appreciated too
foxmulder no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2010, 06:15 AM   #443
Nordschleife
Registered User
 
Nordschleife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Shanghai/New York
Posts: 1,053
Likes (Received): 713

Oh, I made a mistake, I shouldn't posted these pictures here...
Never mind.
Nordschleife no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2010, 06:46 AM   #444
cbz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 86
Likes (Received): 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
I believe cable tension is as important as material used pantograph surface, if not more. Probably, electrical cables on these lines have much higher tension than old school high speed lines so they don't fluctuate as much hence lower friction.
that is true, but it seems can be resolved by either brute force way ( stiff and thick wire), or carefully calculation and auto tension adjustment, thus ensure wire wave speed is faster or slower than train speed. But i guess oscillations caused by pantograph is not reason for friction, it will cause lost of contact and power if standing wave occurs

Last edited by cbz; December 4th, 2010 at 06:53 AM.
cbz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2010, 07:23 AM   #445
cbz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 86
Likes (Received): 2

Here is an interesting part of HSR overhead contact wire introduction by CHR 380 chief designer zhang shuguang (sorry for chinese)

解密高科技接触网助列车高速奔跑
  高铁列车不断挑战速度极限的一大制约因素,是如何确保列车高速运行中受电弓能持续不断从2.75万伏的高压导线中获取强大电流。
  时速350公里的持续运营状态下,列车受电弓以每秒100多米的惊人速度“刷”过接触网,因此接触网必须高度平顺,且导电性能绝佳,列车才能持续高速奔跑。否则受电过程有一点儿中断,列车速度就会立马下降。
  从京津城际到京沪高铁,中铁电气化局已经实现了高铁接触网系统从外方技术主导到完全自主化设计和施工的跨越。据透露,每段平均长度为1.4至1.6公里的接触网导线,架设过程中水平精度误差允许在0.1毫米以下,而京沪高铁的实际精度达到了0.03至0.05毫米的世界领先水平,这成为列车创造出486.1公里时速的重要保障。
  尤其引以为傲的是,昨日试验运行的先导段中,有70公里的接触网导线采用完全自主研发的铜合金高强高导材料,以高强度确保接触网平顺的同时,导电性能又极佳,成为京沪先导段的“秘密武器”,“和谐号”380A列车正是在这段区间加速冲刺创造了新的历史纪录。
cbz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2010, 07:35 AM   #446
Geography
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 447
Likes (Received): 104

Popeye, good to see you leave your usual haunt of SinoDefenseForum.com (an excellent forum for Chinese military news by the way)! I hope you post more here.

Quote:
This is what I love about trains, the ability to sit like this. You have amble leg room if the seat across from you is unoccupied (and can even put your legs on the seat like an ottoman), can have a nice conversation with your friends, and to be able to get up and walk around the train easily. And look at that big window!

How many passengers can the CRH380A hold?
Geography no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2010, 07:44 AM   #447
greenlion
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 374
Likes (Received): 30

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geography View Post
Popeye, good to see you leave your usual haunt of SinoDefenseForum.com (an excellent forum for Chinese military news by the way)! I hope you post more here.


This is what I love about trains, the ability to sit like this. You have amble leg room if the seat across from you is unoccupied (and can even put your legs on the seat like an ottoman), can have a nice conversation with your friends, and to be able to get up and walk around the train easily. And look at that big window!

How many passengers can the CRH380A hold?
8-Car CRH380A, Capacity: 494
16-car CRH380AL, Capacity: around 1000
greenlion no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2010, 10:06 AM   #448
Mika Montwald
Improving Earth
 
Mika Montwald's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Planet EARTH
Posts: 111
Likes (Received): 3

Pent Up Economic Synergy Release by China CRH

8 + 8 = 88
Pent_Up Economic Synergy released by China CRH Harmony Express is beginning to unfold.


Any economic experts who are unable to see the <under surface>
economic benefits should be classified as pedestrian Joe Blow and work as CRH toilet cleaners.


News Source: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-1...-in-world.html

----------------------------------------------

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------
... ... ...

Kroeber said construction of new track for the network will free up space on existing lines for freight, generating enough revenue over 15 years to pay for the new lines. China's rail network is "bursting at the seams," he said.

Freight has doubled between Guangzhou and Wuhan since the route opened in December, said He Huawu, the railway ministry's chief engineer, in an interview. The separation of passenger and cargo lines will release seven times the capacity for container transportation, ... ... ...

--------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------

Zhu Yi used to nap on the five-hour train ride home to Wuhan from Zhuzhou in central China. Now that a fast rail line has cut the trip to an hour and 40 minutes, he can spend more time selling information-management systems.

Before, “it took three days to get a project done,” said Zhu, 31, a sales manager for Beijing Lanxum New Technology Co. in Wuhan. “Now it’s so fast I can work out a solution for the client and be back home on the same day.”

The view from Zhu’s reclining seat shows how China’s push to build a 16,000-kilometer high-speed passenger network by 2020 is carrying China’s industrial boom inland. All along the trackside are earth movers and excavators clearing land and beginning construction. They merge into a blur as the express accelerates to 350 kilometers (218 miles) an hour.

The country’s planned 2 trillion yuan ($300 billion) in spending will give it almost as much track by 2012 as the entire rest of the world, even before the network is completed.

The new trains will transform China’s economy in the way bullet trains did in Japan in the 1960s and 1970s, according to Beijing-based China International Capital Corp., the top-ranked brokerage for China research in Asiamoney magazine’s annual survey.

“China’s high-speed rail program is altering the landscape of consumer and property markets,” said Jing Ulrich, JPMorgan Chase & Co.’s China equities and commodities head in Hong Kong.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Rail Shares

China’s bullet-train spending has buoyed rail stocks since a 4-trillion-yuan stimulus was announced in November 2008. Shares of Dalian-based China Railway Tielong Container Logistics Co., which provides railroad, truck and water transportation services, have risen 2.5 times since then. China Railway Erju Co. in Chengdu, which designs and builds railways, has more than doubled.

Companies providing rolling stock and equipment to train operators have some of the best growth prospects in the country, said Anderson Chow, a Hong Kong-based analyst with Macquarie Capital Securities. Overall investment in China’s railway industry will total 3.8 trillion yuan from 2011 to 2015, about 50 percent more than in the last five years, he estimates.

Earnings growth at CSR Corp., which makes locomotives and wagons, will surge an annual average 38 percent over the next three years, said Chow. At Zhuzhou CSR Times Electric Co. in Zhuzhou, which makes electrical systems for railways, earnings will rise an average of about 35 percent annually over the same period, he said.

Earnings Certainty?

“If you look around the China market there are very few companies that give you that sort of certainty for earnings growth,” Chow said.

The nation’s $90 billion in spending on the network last year far exceeds the $8 billion that President Barack Obama allocated in stimulus for U.S. fast trains earlier this year.

The difference “is a confirmation of China’s rise and an indication of U.S. demise,” said Nicholas Lardy, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics in Washington. “We in the U.S. are doing little to nothing and will pay a price in slower growth now and in the future.”

Japan’s bullet trains triggered “explosive growth” in tourism-related retail sales along their routes in the decade after Shinkansen services began in 1964, CICC said. Less- developed cities such as Hiroshima, Nagoya and Fukuoka “started to play catch-up in industrial production growth.” Morgan Stanley is selling its 34.3 percent stake in CICC, four people with direct knowledge of the deal said.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Fewer Bottlenecks

In China, more businesses will move inland to capitalize on labor as much as 50 percent cheaper than in the more affluent eastern areas of the country, and on lower land and rental costs. Increased rail capacity also will reduce freight bottlenecks, the bank said.

Beijing Lanxum’s Zhu said the bullet trains helped him increase sales about 15 percent this year in Zhuzhou, Hunan’s second-biggest city, because he can contact more clients.

Changsha, population 6 million and the capital of Hunan province, shows how the fast trains are altering the landscape in central China. He Chuan Road features an array of dusty shops selling tires, noodles and groceries, typical of many provincial cities. Just around the corner towers the 200,000-square meter Changsha South Railway Station, its glass curtain walls capped by a 38-meter-high waved roof.

The coming of the trains prompted CITIC Capital’s Stanley Ching to bet 1.5 billion yuan on CITIC’s purchase of the ID Mall shopping complex in the city center, about 30 minutes from the station. He plans to add a chain of branded retail malls over the next three to five years, mostly in second- and third-tier cities along the high-speed rail routes.

‘Big Push’

“Changsha’s been a very promising city but it needed a big push to turn it into a regional hub,” said Ching, Hong Kong- based head of real estate at CITIC Capital, which manages more than $3 billion in private equity, in a telephone interview. “High-speed rail is that big push.”

China’s industrial transformation may be greater than Japan’s because its rail network will be bigger and its trains faster, according to JP Morgan’s Ulrich. A Chinese high-speed train today reached 486.1 kilometers per hour in what state-run Xinhua News said was a world record for an unmodified commercial locomotive. A specially equipped French TGV set a world record of 574.8 kilometers per hour in April 2007.

“Places west of Shanghai can become part of China’s giant east coast export zone, and that’s already starting to happen,” said Arthur Kroeber, managing director of Beijing-based Dragonomics, an economic advisory firm whose clients include Fortune 500 companies and hedge funds.

-------------------------------------------------------------

All Capitals

China has more than 7,000 kilometers of high-speed track so far. By 2012, Beijing plans to have 42 lines in operation, covering 13,000 kilometers. Within a decade all provincial capitals and cities with more than 500,000 citizens will have high-speed links, the Ministry of Railways says. Already, the Chinese rail system is larger than any other country’s, according to the Paris-based International Union of Railways.

Changsha’s fast rail link enables CITIC Capital to hire senior staff from coastal cities such as Shenzhen to manage the retail malls, said Ching.

When the Guangzhou-Shenzhen line opens next year, travel time to Changsha will shrink to about 2.5 hours from more than 9 hours. Another line, scheduled for completion in 2014, will cut travel time between Guangzhou and Yunfu, a city of 2.6 million in Guangdong province, to 40 minutes from more than 2 hours.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Tableware Sales

Companies based in Yunfu, such as stainless-steel tableware maker Linkfair Group and agricultural company Wen’s Group, will benefit, said John Scales, Beijing-based transport sector coordinator at the World Bank. The link will help them recruit designers and research staff, according to a World Bank case study on the city to be published next year, said Scales.

... ... ...

-------------------------------------------------------------
__________________
HUGE DENSE FOREST Covering Cities


Are you studying the Basic Traditional Proper CIVILIZED BEHAVIORS <弟子规> ??
Mika Montwald no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2010, 10:52 AM   #449
Mika Montwald
Improving Earth
 
Mika Montwald's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Planet EARTH
Posts: 111
Likes (Received): 3

Quote:
... ...

if the seat across from you is unoccupied (and can even put your legs on the seat like an ottoman), ... ...
Just Friendly Reminder to everyone. Please do not take any offense.
Below is not an overreaction:

-----------------------------------------------

In China, Korea and Japan, it is considered extremely, extremely RUDE and
OFFENSIVE to lift your feet up and putting them on OTHER people seat (even when empty and unoccupied) or a nearby table or a pole.



Most especially, if you do NOT take off your shoes.
Double the offense.

Seat is a place to sit. They are NOT a footrest.
In public, one's feet should always be resting on the floor.
Public place is a public place. They are not a massage parlor.

----------------------------------------------------

Do not be surprised -- if a passerby see you with your feet up resting on other people seat,
then they SUDDENLY attack you and break your kneecap and gouging out your eyes.

HST is a National Pride.
Please do not trample on National Pride.

The act of lifting one's feet up on (other people seat or a table or a pole) is a
SYMBOLIC insulting and dominating gesture that implies other people are nobody.

Because if one respect one's present company and surrounding, then
one will NOT lift one's feet up and rest them on other people domain.

I am done. Sorry: Off Topic
__________________
HUGE DENSE FOREST Covering Cities


Are you studying the Basic Traditional Proper CIVILIZED BEHAVIORS <弟子规> ??

Last edited by Mika Montwald; December 4th, 2010 at 11:17 AM.
Mika Montwald no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2010, 11:12 AM   #450
Mika Montwald
Improving Earth
 
Mika Montwald's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Planet EARTH
Posts: 111
Likes (Received): 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozumi 300 View Post
They're actually the videos that were linked here. I only noticed it when the train is leaving the station, so when you see the train start leaving the station look at the wheels.
I believe the Perforated Holes on the Bogie wheels is just only one of the many, many brand new CRH inventions.

A brand new Speedometer (ultra clever and reliable way) to measure the speed of 350+ km/hr China HST
with a minimum mechanical breakdown as compare to the conventional speedometer.

If one want to push the Speed envelope and create a sustainable 500+ km/hr HST, then one has to innovate,
because nobody else on this planet has the Tech.

The precise and equally spaced Perforated Holes is to let the LED
light shines though to measure the precise speed of the individual CRH Bogie wheel.

Thus knowing the precise speed of the CRH Bogie wheel
will translate to better time spacing interval between CRH trains.

As of now, the time spacing interval between CRH trains running 400 km/hr is equal to minimum 3 minutes.
__________________
HUGE DENSE FOREST Covering Cities


Are you studying the Basic Traditional Proper CIVILIZED BEHAVIORS <弟子规> ??
Mika Montwald no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2010, 01:04 PM   #451
Luli Pop
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,529
Likes (Received): 40

the new trolls are more and mor brainless each time!

I´ll think I´ll miss Hypertroll when next one appears!
Luli Pop no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2010, 02:43 PM   #452
oliver999
starwar
 
oliver999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,148
Likes (Received): 1141

http://www.tudou.com/playlist/playin...5250188&cid=29
this is the video
__________________
项羽问:怎么样?
骑兵们敬佩地回答:和大王说的一样!
oliver999 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2010, 03:40 PM   #453
hmmwv
Registered User
 
hmmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,391
Likes (Received): 420

Quote:
Originally Posted by dumbfword View Post
Can rails and overhead lines handle trains running over 500kph?
I don't see any problem with that, I doubt the 486.1 record is the absolute limit for the system, there has to be some safety margin. The V150 got to 575 and the overhead line and rail seem to be fine, lower that by 80kph will allow the infrastructure to last longer. Also note the train doesn't have to reach 500kph to stay competitive with regional airlines. Train will accelerate and slow down and will maintain a far slower average speed than 500kph, but on the other hand planes will climb and descend, dodge bad weather, sit on the tarmac to wait for takeoff clearance, or circle in the air waiting for landing slot. On top of that, passengers have to travel to airports, wait in security lines, etc. Riding regional turboprop for trips less than 6-700km will be slower than riding HSR.
hmmwv no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2010, 06:02 PM   #454
dumbfword
Habitual Line Stepper
 
dumbfword's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 293
Likes (Received): 563

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luli Pop View Post
the new trolls are more and mor brainless each time!

I´ll think I´ll miss Hypertroll when next one appears!
lol. who is trolling?
__________________
"I am the color red in a world full of black and white"
dumbfword no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2010, 06:51 PM   #455
greenlion
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 374
Likes (Received): 30

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchin...t_11652641.htm

The new passenger train record was hit along a 220-km section of the line between Zaozhuang, Shandong province, and Bengbu, Anhui province, which has led other sections of the new line in finishing its signal, communications and power supply systems.

At 11:06 am, the Chinese designed and manufactured bullet train CRH380AL set off from Zaozhuang.

With a longer, streamlined nose designed to reduce air resistance, the train began to pick up speed. After only a few minutes, it had broken the previous record of 416.6 km/h. The train maintained a speed that hovered around 420 km/h for a while before cranking it up again and hitting 480 km/h at 11:24 am.

After slowing down briefly, it started to accelerate again and set the new world record of 486.1 km/h at 11:28 am.

The experience of being on board felt very much like "flying on land", which is how the ministry has described its future high-speed rail service.

And the noise inside was similar to that inside a jet, but somewhat quieter.

Unlike passenger aircraft, travelers were not required to buckle-up.

Passengers aboard the train for the record-breaking trial run said the ride was smooth and the feeling was similar to being on a regular train traveling at 250 km/h.

"We have done a lot of experiments on making the train airtight and streamlined on the Wuhan-Guangzhou high-speed rail line and used our research findings on this train," said Zhang Shuguang, deputy chief engineer with the Ministry of Railways.

And he said there were also no concerns about the safety of the train. He said it operated well within its safe parameters and "performed excellently" even while it was at the new record speed.

"This operational experiment shows China's leading position in the sector," Zhang said.

"It is the world's most advanced but cheapest high-speed train. It is also reliable and comfortable to ride."

The train that broke the record was a 16-car bullet train that was designed and built by CSR Qingdao Sifang Locomotive and Rolling Stock Co Ltd. It was designed for daily work on the Beijing-Shanghai high-speed line.

The 403-meter train can seat 1,027 passengers and will ordinarily travel at 350 km/h and hit a maximum speed of 380 km/h while in normal service.
greenlion no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2010, 06:55 PM   #456
Ariel74
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Frankfurt am Main
Posts: 414
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
I don't see any problem with that, I doubt the 486.1 record is the absolute limit for the system, there has to be some safety margin. The V150 got to 575 and the overhead line and rail seem to be fine, lower that by 80kph will allow the infrastructure to last longer. Also note the train doesn't have to reach 500kph to stay competitive with regional airlines. Train will accelerate and slow down and will maintain a far slower average speed than 500kph, but on the other hand planes will climb and descend, dodge bad weather, sit on the tarmac to wait for takeoff clearance, or circle in the air waiting for landing slot. On top of that, passengers have to travel to airports, wait in security lines, etc. Riding regional turboprop for trips less than 6-700km will be slower than riding HSR.
You are extraordinarily patient But if you waste your time with every idiotic question put to you, you won't have time to live your own life
Ariel74 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2010, 06:56 PM   #457
Ariel74
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Frankfurt am Main
Posts: 414
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozumi 300 View Post
They're actually the videos that were linked here. I only noticed it when the train is leaving the station, so when you see the train start leaving the station look at the wheels.
oh, thanks.
Ariel74 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2010, 07:05 PM   #458
greenlion
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 374
Likes (Received): 30

during the December 3 test, the CRH380AL actually traveled 220 km in 34 minutes, at average speed of 388 km/h (209 mph), speed of 480+ km/h lasts for 7 minutes, that means it at least traveld 56.7 km (35.23 miles)under such a speed. shows how well the rail constructed .
greenlion no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2010, 07:12 PM   #459
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,975
Likes (Received): 388

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...120300324.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Associated Press
The line is due to open in 2012 and will halve the current travel time between the capital Beijing and Shanghai to five hours.
Which month of 2012?
When Beijing-Shanghai high speed railway does open, shall it be far slower than the existing Wuhan-Guangzhou high speed railway? 5 hours for 1305 km or so means average of 261 km/h, while Guangwu railway has average 296 km/h for 968 km, and 313 km/h for 922 km.
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2010, 07:29 PM   #460
Ariel74
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Frankfurt am Main
Posts: 414
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlion View Post
during the December 3 test, the CRH380AL actually traveled 220 km in 34 minutes, at average speed of 388 km/h (209 mph), speed of 480+ km/h lasts for 7 minutes, that means it at least traveld 56.7 km (35.23 miles)under such a speed. shows how well the rail constructed .
Do you know if the 7 minutes were one continuous period, or is it the sum of several periods (3mins earlier then 4 mins later, for example)?
Ariel74 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
china

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium