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Old December 4th, 2010, 07:35 PM   #461
greenlion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
Do you know if the 7 minutes were one continuous period, or is it the sum of several periods (3mins earlier then 4 mins later, for example)?
I think it's a continuous period.
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Old December 4th, 2010, 09:24 PM   #462
Mika Montwald
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CHINA HST Track can handle operating speed up to 660 km/h



Firstly, let us send the much well deserved acknowledgment and tribute to China Ministry of Railways R&D
teams of Engineers and Scientists, plus construction crews who work tirelessly around the clock.

Secondly, let us send the well deserved acknowledgment and tribute to German Engineering and Japan Engineering,
plus Japan Meticulous Approach which had facilitated China Ministry of Railways R&D teams of Engineers & Scientists
in pushing the CRH Operating Speed boundary to exceed 486+ km/h.

Unofficially, China Ministry of Railways R&D is targeting CRH Operating Speed of 600+ km/h in the near future.


In contrast, ... ...

Not too long ago around year 2000, some of the French Alstom people told the visiting China Engineers & Scientists
it should take China at least 30+ years to be able to produce the HST such as French Alstom TGV
(accompanied by very loud French Alstom sneering in the background)



Now, I wonder how long will it take French Alstom to catch up to China Ministry of Railways in producing
16 sets (non specially configured) HST with sustainable operating speed of 486+ km/h over a distance of 4800 km ??


--------------------------------------------------------



Sending Acknowledgment and Tributes toward these
contributing Engineering firms below (among many):

1) German Engineering Firms: ( Nencki AG , MAX_BOEGL , Bombardier , Siemens )

2) Japan Engineering Firm: Kawasaki Heavy Industries

--------------------------------------------------------

Some of China R&D Innovative Secrets for being able to push
the CRH Operating Speed upward (so far 486+ km/h, next up 500+ km/h) are:


1) CRH CRTS_2 Slab Track manufacturing tech -- which are able to deliver the most accurate rail placement
on the planet with minimum allowable sideways movement of smaller than << 0.1 mm

2) CRH Bogie system manufacturing tech -- which are able to handle speed up to 560 km/h (unofficially)
without hunting from side to side during straight line ultra high speed travel.

3) China EMU Permanent Magnet Motors (Green Tech) -- which are able to deliver those ultra high speed
consuming energy less than 5.2 kWh per 100 km distance per passenger.


-------------------------------------------

BTW, does anyone know -- what is the Energy Consumption of Siemens, Kawasaki, Alstom HST
in (kWh) per 100 km distance per passenger ??

-------------------------------------------

Quote:
Source: International Railway Journal -- SEP 2010 (Subscriber Only) ... ... ...

Regenerative braking should result in the energy feedback rate hitting 90%.

As far as external noise is concerned, CSR has streamlined the train and optimised
windows and doors to improve aerodynamic performance.
The nose design of the train has a resistance coefficient of <0.13.
The rear car of the train has a lift coefficient of <0.08. CSR says it has been
able to reduce car body aerodynamic noise by more than 5%.

Lightweight design

CSR has adopted a lightweight design so that the maximum axieload is less than 15 tonnes.
When running at 380km/h, per capita energy consumption per 100km remains below 5.2kWh.

In addition, CSR has introduced a series of resistance-reducing designs such as streamlined driving cars,
fully-clad windscreen, and a smooth underfloor area, which have helped to reduce aerodynamic resistance by 6%,
thereby significantly reducing energy consumption.

The train is designed to achieve a high level of reliability but with low maintenance costs.
All electrical equipment in the train is electromagnetically compatible, and is designed
to exert little electromagnetic interference both within and outside the train.
In addition, the train is equipped with a sewage collection system to ensure pollution-free discharge

... ... ...
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Last edited by Mika Montwald; December 4th, 2010 at 09:37 PM.
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Old December 4th, 2010, 11:10 PM   #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika Montwald View Post



--------------------------------------------------------



Sending Acknowledgment and Tributes toward these
contributing Engineering firms below (among many):

1) German Engineering Firms: ( Nencki AG , MAX_BOEGL , Bombardier , Siemens )

2) Japan Engineering Firm: Kawasaki Heavy Industries

--------------------------------------------------------
China's MOR should give proper credit to these international suppliers, which engineered and supplied some of the key components of CRH. This does diminish MOR's outstanding achievements in building a complete HSR system and network in China. This is not only fair, but is also beneficial to the healthy development of China's HSR industry, as well as dispels some of the doubts overseas about China's own contribution and technology capability.

I think the key leadership of MOR understands this. If you compare the major international HSR industry players. Alstom was out of the game from the beginning; they balked at MOR's request for technology transfer and JV. They had been very bitter and vocal at the beginning, but has become a lot quieter more recently. Some of the Japanese business leaders have been particularly bitter and accusatory, obviously due to the huge disappointment that China had simply leapfrogged and advanced so rapidly in HSR and didn't give the Japanese vendors as much opportunity as they originally expected.

Bombardier has been an active participant in Chinese rail transport market and has been the most cooperative with Chinese authorities. As such, they have been constantly awarded with deals after deals, the including the CRH380C contract. Germany is also an interesting case. Siemens has been quietly cooperating with MOR and played the role of key suppliers to MOR.

MOR has been explicit that they welcome foreign competition. The CRH380C contract with Bombardier is meant to maintain the competition to the Chinese rolling stock manufacturers and keep CSR and CNR honest.
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Old December 4th, 2010, 11:12 PM   #464
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wouldnt there be a point from where maglev would be more economical?

plus that could _really_ go faster
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Old December 4th, 2010, 11:44 PM   #465
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Amazing piece of engineering there. I only wish we had something like that in the US. Chicago to Miami at 302 mph... What? 5hrs? Boggles the mind.
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Old December 5th, 2010, 12:50 AM   #466
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I don't think that Washington Post article is correct about the travel time and opening date of Jinhu line, from what we have read so far it's 4 hours to Shanghai in a "express" train, and opening date is somewhere around National Day 2011.
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Old December 5th, 2010, 01:20 AM   #467
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Quote:
In China, Korea and Japan, it is considered extremely, extremely RUDE and
OFFENSIVE to lift your feet up and putting them on OTHER people seat (even when empty and unoccupied) or a nearby table or a pole.
OK, OK, I got it! Thanks for the survival tip.
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Old December 5th, 2010, 01:24 AM   #468
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I was going to say - I wonder if the 5 hours travel time thing is some kind of deliberate "mistake" by the Washington Post to not make this look as good as it is.

Quote:
CSR has adopted a lightweight design so that the maximum axieload is less than 15 tonnes.

When running at 380km/h, per capita energy consumption per 100km remains below 5.2kWh.

Up thread it was stated that the train has 1047 seat. Here it is stated that the per seat energy consumption is 0.052 kWh per km.

We were told before that the train's power was 20440kW.

If you work that out then at constant 380 km/h, the train is using more than its max power. So how are they getting to 486 km/h?

Also, on wikipedia it states that the seating is 1230, so who is correct?
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Old December 5th, 2010, 01:57 AM   #469
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yeah, I saw on CNN the news ticker said "Chinese Train sets new record, Xinhua reports" while all of the other news didn't have such a qualification, they were simply reported as fact (like "Wildfire kills 8" or "Qatar hosting 2022 world cup"). But this implies that Xinhua is not telling the full story, when there's a multiple video and photographic proof given.
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Old December 5th, 2010, 04:38 AM   #470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
wouldnt there be a point from where maglev would be more economical?

plus that could _really_ go faster
(Coming from Unofficial Source):

Maybe coining some new terms: ... ...


UHST = Ultra High Speed Train
MAGLEVAC Train = ( MAGLEV + VACUUM ) Train
IOT -- M2M2H = Internet 3.0 & beyond

----------------------------------------------------

In China, MAGLEV Train is coming in different way to create a Ultra HST (1st Speed target upward of 1000+ km/h).

2nd Speed target upward of 1236+ km/h = Traveling by MAGLEVAC UHST faster than the Speed of Sound.


-- -- --


If every nations along the line are willing to cooperate for the betterment of planet Earth
(without getting bog down by daily democratic bickering),
China will build the MAGLEVAC Ultra HST 2 corridors from China to Europe and
the 400+ km/h HST feeder lines along the route to support the 2 MAGLEVAC UHST corridors.


1) Northern Path MAGLEVAC UHST corridor = China --- Russia --- NIMBYnation1 ---
NIMBYnation2 --- Germany (... ... only if Germans do not get bog down by NIMBYism)

(... ... unknown NIMBYnation --- To Be Decided (TBD) after
daily democratic bickering is over, maybe in 300+ years)


2) Southern Path MAGLEVAC UHST corridor = China --- Iran --- Turkey --- Bulgaria --- NIMBYnation



We all know that China Nation has the money and the fastest multi Supercomputer
(to simulate building these new toys in advance -- IOT -- M2M2H Simulation)
to build these kind of MAGLEVAC Ultra High Speed Train Corridors.

----------------------------------------------------

China Ministry of Railways R&D has set aside a small team of Engineers & Scientists to work on
combining Maglev tech with a Vacuum Tube tech at Shanghai Southwest Jiaotong University R&D Lab.

At these moment, China R&D teams are working hard to solve
many development bottlenecks in terms of:

----------------------------------------------------

1) Producing the Best & the cheapest Permanent Magnet Alloys (China still has some Rare Earth Materials left,
after years and years of idiotic Fire Sale super cheap export by China Companies)

2) Constructing the Best & the cheapest Vaccum Tube

3) plus IOT -- M2M ( Internet of Things -- Machine to Machine Communication
Tech to automatically keep track of all the tiny parts of these new traveling toys

4) plus IOT -- M2M2H ( Internet of Things -- Machine to Machine to Human Communication Tech
to automatically keeping track of all the passengers for safety).

5) Applying the Green Solar Power tech to power some of these new toys
by applying them in the Train Vacuum Tube & Train Station Roof.

6) plus Nano Tech to auto maintain most of the MAGLEVAC UHST system (Train & Tube) 24h/d

7) Applying the Green Nuclear Fusion Tech to power all these new toys


Now, more and more global Engineers and Scientists who want to test their theories and
work on the super cutting edge next tech frontiers are coming to China.
China welcome you warmly.


----------------------------------------------------


News Sources_1: http://www.techthefuture.com/energy/...ach-1000-kmph/


News Sources_2: http://www.geek.com/articles/news/ch...00kph-2010085/


Solar Power on Station Roof:

News Sources_3: http://cleantechnica.com/2010/07/20/...anghai-china//


----------------------------------------------------

NOTE:

I hope China Central Government has the wisdom to shut down the idiotic Transfer
of Tech from China Companies (CSR & CNR & MoR) directly to General Electric in exchange of
USD toilet papers (So far, the USA FED Bank has been printing 2.3 Trillion toilet papers already).

---

China has too much FX reserve already. (2.7+ Trillions USD and counting)

China should immediately stop selling these tech by themselves in US.
China should have the wisdom to license their new HST Tech invention to some
nice German Engineering companies and let the Germans sell them in USA.


----------------------------------------------------
__________________
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Are you studying the Basic Traditional Proper CIVILIZED BEHAVIORS <弟子规> ??

Last edited by Mika Montwald; December 5th, 2010 at 05:32 AM.
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Old December 5th, 2010, 06:02 AM   #471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika Montwald View Post
(Coming from Unofficial Source):

Maybe coining some new terms: ... ...


UHST = Ultra High Speed Train
MAGLEVAC Train = ( MAGLEV + VACUUM ) Train
IOT -- M2M2H = Internet 3.0 & beyond

----------------------------------------------------

In China, MAGLEV Train is coming in different way to create a Ultra HST (1st Speed target upward of 1000+ km/h).

2nd Speed target upward of 1236+ km/h = Traveling by MAGLEVAC UHST faster than the Speed of Sound.


-- -- --


If every nations along the line are willing to cooperate for the betterment of planet Earth
(without getting bog down by daily democratic bickering),
China will build the MAGLEVAC Ultra HST 2 corridors from China to Europe and
the 400+ km/h HST feeder lines along the route to support the 2 MAGLEVAC UHST corridors.


1) Northern Path MAGLEVAC UHST corridor = China --- Russia --- NIMBYnation1 ---
NIMBYnation2 --- Germany (... ... only if Germans do not get bog down by NIMBYism)

(... ... unknown NIMBYnation --- To Be Decided (TBD) after
daily democratic bickering is over, maybe in 300+ years)


2) Southern Path MAGLEVAC UHST corridor = China --- Iran --- Turkey --- Bulgaria --- NIMBYnation



We all know that China Nation has the money and the fastest multi Supercomputer
(to simulate building these new toys in advance -- IOT -- M2M2H Simulation)
to build these kind of MAGLEVAC Ultra High Speed Train Corridors.

----------------------------------------------------

China Ministry of Railways R&D has set aside a small team of Engineers & Scientists to work on
combining Maglev tech with a Vacuum Tube tech at Shanghai Southwest Jiaotong University R&D Lab.

At these moment, China R&D teams are working hard to solve
many development bottlenecks in terms of:

----------------------------------------------------

1) Producing the Best & the cheapest Permanent Magnet Alloys (China still has some Rare Earth Materials left,
after years and years of idiotic Fire Sale super cheap export by China Companies)

2) Constructing the Best & the cheapest Vaccum Tube

3) plus IOT -- M2M ( Internet of Things -- Machine to Machine Communication
Tech to automatically keep track of all the tiny parts of these new traveling toys

4) plus IOT -- M2M2H ( Internet of Things -- Machine to Machine to Human Communication Tech
to automatically keeping track of all the passengers for safety).

5) Applying the Green Solar Power tech to power some of these new toys
by applying them in the Train Vacuum Tube & Train Station Roof.

6) plus Nano Tech to auto maintain most of the MAGLEVAC UHST system (Train & Tube) 24h/d

7) Applying the Green Nuclear Fusion Tech to power all these new toys


Now, more and more global Engineers and Scientists who want to test their theories and
work on the super cutting edge next tech frontiers are coming to China.
China welcome you warmly.


----------------------------------------------------


News Sources_1: http://www.techthefuture.com/energy/...ach-1000-kmph/


News Sources_2: http://www.geek.com/articles/news/ch...00kph-2010085/


Solar Power on Station Roof:

News Sources_3: http://cleantechnica.com/2010/07/20/...anghai-china//


----------------------------------------------------

NOTE:

I hope China Central Government has the wisdom to shut down the idiotic Transfer
of Tech from China Companies (CSR & CNR & MoR) directly to General Electric in exchange of
USD toilet papers (So far, the USA FED Bank has been printing 2.3 Trillion toilet papers already).

---

China has too much FX reserve already. (2.7+ Trillions USD and counting)

China should immediately stop selling these tech by themselves in US.
China should have the wisdom to license their new HST Tech invention to some
nice German Engineering companies and let the Germans sell them in USA.



----------------------------------------------------
and this relates to HSR how? Create a blog for your trolling. don't derail the thread. And isn't kind of a double standard about tech transfers? GE or any Chinese companies haven't even started to bid. What tech transfers has PRC companies done to GE?
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Old December 5th, 2010, 07:29 AM   #472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33Hz View Post
I was going to say - I wonder if the 5 hours travel time thing is some kind of deliberate "mistake" by the Washington Post to not make this look as good as it is.




Up thread it was stated that the train has 1047 seat. Here it is stated that the per seat energy consumption is 0.052 kWh per km.

We were told before that the train's power was 20440kW.

If you work that out then at constant 380 km/h, the train is using more than its max power. So how are they getting to 486 km/h?

Also, on wikipedia it states that the seating is 1230, so who is correct?
Whoever edited the 380A article on wikipedia just took the 1230 number from the CRH2B capacity... until the last few days, it was not disclosed how many seats would be on the 380AL, but now it's revealed to be 1047. I'll run through the article and correct any discrepancies when I get the chance.
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Old December 5th, 2010, 08:34 AM   #473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fan Railer View Post
Whoever edited the 380A article on wikipedia just took the 1230 number from the CRH2B capacity... until the last few days, it was not disclosed how many seats would be on the 380AL, but now it's revealed to be 1047. I'll run through the article and correct any discrepancies when I get the chance.
actually it is me who wrote most part of the CRH380A article on wikipedia, and the 1230 number is indeed from the origional design proposal, which was based on the capacity of CRH2B

some media also report Capacity of CRH380AL is 1027,

http://news.workercn.cn/c/2010/12/04...278225782.html

and 1004 capacity for CRH380BL

http://www.jl.chinanews.com.cn/news.aspx?id=10919

Last edited by greenlion; December 5th, 2010 at 08:45 AM.
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Old December 5th, 2010, 08:50 AM   #474
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just found official datas from CSR website, CRH380A: 490 (but actually 494 in real service,interesting), CRH380AL 1027.

http://www.cqsf.com/portalEn/gsdcz/c...201index_1.htm
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Old December 5th, 2010, 10:50 AM   #475
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Have CRH 380 from Tianjin to Beijing??

I will come to Tianjin in May 2011

Yes or Maybe or Nope??
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> 同一个中国
(同一个北京)(同一个上海)(同一个天津)(同一个广州)(同一个深圳)(同一个重庆)(同一个杭州)(同一个南京)(同一个沈陽)(同一个武汉)(同一个成都)(同一个長春)(同一个长沙)(同一个苏州)(同一个无锡)(同一个扬州)(同一个西安)(同一个吉林)(同一个青島)(同一个大连)(同一个厦门)(同一个潮州)(同一个高州)(同一个香港)(同一个澳門)
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Old December 5th, 2010, 11:03 AM   #476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlosBlueDragon View Post
Have CRH 380 from Tianjin to Beijing??

I will come to Tianjin in May 2011

Yes or Maybe or Nope??
Currently Beijing - Tianjin HSR only service with CRH3C (Siemens Velaro CN)

But maybe CRH380 will be added in next year, all of the three series have chances.
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Old December 5th, 2010, 11:06 AM   #477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlion View Post
No, Currently Beijing - Tianjin HSR only service with CRH3C (Siemens Velaro CN)
Oh, Can u send to show let me see the pic about HSR and CRH3C??
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> 同一个中国
(同一个北京)(同一个上海)(同一个天津)(同一个广州)(同一个深圳)(同一个重庆)(同一个杭州)(同一个南京)(同一个沈陽)(同一个武汉)(同一个成都)(同一个長春)(同一个长沙)(同一个苏州)(同一个无锡)(同一个扬州)(同一个西安)(同一个吉林)(同一个青島)(同一个大连)(同一个厦门)(同一个潮州)(同一个高州)(同一个香港)(同一个澳門)
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Old December 5th, 2010, 12:35 PM   #478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlion View Post
just found official datas from CSR website, CRH380A: 490 (but actually 494 in real service,interesting), CRH380AL 1027.

http://www.cqsf.com/portalEn/gsdcz/c...201index_1.htm

OK that solves the seat mystery, but that makes the power/energy one worse...

Is it a case of someone assuming the power quoted is for 380 km/h? Or were they running over rated power for the record?
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Old December 5th, 2010, 12:38 PM   #479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
its nice to have thousands of engineers working for you for slightly more than a bowl of rice
I find that comment both offensive and untrue, I think your more suited to www.stormfront.org but cool profile picture.

typical monthly salary for an engineer these days is at least 5000 RMB, or 60,000 RMB a year, that's around $10,000 USD, first of all, let's factor in purchasing power, which would make it equal about $22,000. Which is actually after tax, because that's how your salary is usually quoted.

I don't know too much about the US, so i'll compare that to a Canadian engineer, who makes typically $50,000 a year, taxes alone would turn that into just around $35,000, and that's if he qualifies for the typical tax breaks.

Factory employees are usually given accommodations and food in China. All of that needs to come out the Canadian engineer's salary. I know the accommodations given in China aren't exactly five star, so i'm going to equate that to a $600/month bachelor pad in Canada, and the crappy food equates to about $200/month, that about $10,000 altogether.

so in a fair comparison, its more like $22,000 vs. $25,000.

Anyways, back to trains, where did Alstom go all of a sudden? why isn't there a CRH380D?

Last edited by spkg; December 5th, 2010 at 12:46 PM.
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Old December 5th, 2010, 01:03 PM   #480
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I work in the Airline industry here in Canada, and I'm so glad HSR will never take off in North America like it did in China.

One thing about the development of Chinese capability in HSR tech really got me thinking. After only working with the foreign companies for less then 10 years they were able to make the CRH380A, which, at least on paper is even better the Japanese original without any help. Ethical issues with IP aside, that's still an incredible achievement.

Airbus has already started A320 production at their Tianjian plant, and the MD-80s have been in manufactured in China for ages. Could we see the same thing happen for the aviation industry in China? I know all about Comac and the C919, but we didn't really think too much of them here in Canada, but could we all be flying in Chinese planes by the end of the decade?

Anyways the CRH380A look good, but boy dose the CRH380C ever look sexy, i wonder if they're going to make a 380kph sleeper car, I'd love to be able to go to bed in Hong Kong and wake up in Beijing, and not wait my entire day flying.
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