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Old January 16th, 2011, 05:54 PM   #681
Ariel74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in_China View Post
The CRH380BL-6402, that got a 487km/h on 9th of January 2011 was a modified train, where 4 trailer cars were left out and traction power raised.
It survived the high-speed run without damages on component - in contrary to the catinary, which had to be maintained for three days after the run.

The CRH380AL, which has done his 486km/h run on 3rd of January 2011, was - according to rumors and persons, who have seen the train on CARS testring in Beijing - a 14-car-train (instead of 16 cars in normal trainset). Train shall be on it's way to museum, suffering serious damages on motors and boogies (boogie on CHR380A is a modified version of CRH2-boogie with additional dampers and anti-roll-bar).

I would be pleased if somebody could verify the 14-car-thesis on pictures of record train.
Didn't CRH380AL do the speed test in December, 2010? And where did you get these rumors and "persons"? On ourail.com, where some of the employees of the South Locomotive are active, no such rumor was ever mentioned. And according to all insider information available there, the configuration of the CRH380al bested on Dec 3, 2010 was 14M2T. In other words, a total of 16 cars.
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Old January 16th, 2011, 06:41 PM   #682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in_China View Post
boogie on CHR380A is a modified version of CRH2-boogie with additional dampers and anti-roll-bar
Can you share the source?
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Old January 17th, 2011, 12:28 AM   #683
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More videos of the CRH380BL in service:
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjM2NzA3OTg4.html
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjM2NzEzMjMy.html
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjM2NzIzMzI0.html

Last edited by Fan Railer; January 17th, 2011 at 03:34 AM.
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Old January 17th, 2011, 02:16 AM   #684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
Can you share the source?
sounds like trolling imo
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Old January 17th, 2011, 03:14 AM   #685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in_China View Post
The CRH380BL-6402, that got a 487km/h on 9th of January 2011 was a modified train, where 4 trailer cars were left out and traction power raised.
It survived the high-speed run without damages on component - in contrary to the catinary, which had to be maintained for three days after the run.

The CRH380AL, which has done his 486km/h run on 3rd of January 2011, was - according to rumors and persons, who have seen the train on CARS testring in Beijing - a 14-car-train (instead of 16 cars in normal trainset). Train shall be on it's way to museum, suffering serious damages on motors and boogies (boogie on CHR380A is a modified version of CRH2-boogie with additional dampers and anti-roll-bar).

I would be pleased if somebody could verify the 14-car-thesis on pictures of record train.
THE CRH380AL's 486.1 km/h test was live broadcast to the whole world in December and the set has 16 cars.
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Old January 17th, 2011, 04:32 AM   #686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlion View Post
THE CRH380AL's 486.1 km/h test was live broadcast to the whole world in December and the set has 16 cars.
As to the dmgs incurred. What he said doesn't seem unreasonable.

The CRH380AL motor and bogies are based on a designs that were to be used at 200km/h. No sources are needed for this. The CRH380AL is largely based on the technology of the CRH2. The program actually started off as an attempt to improve the CRH2's aerodynamic performance by incorporating the front-end design compoments of the CRH3.

It is even more reasonable for both train's catinary to be trashed after this use. In fact, I’d surprised if the overhead power lines didn't also need maintenance after these endeavors.

Lastly, it will be very unlickly for China's MOR to release this information on incurred damages after all the positive publicity.

Although i highly doublt any of the trains will make their ways to any museums. Motors and bogies can all be replaced.
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Last edited by UD2; January 17th, 2011 at 04:37 AM.
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Old January 17th, 2011, 05:34 AM   #687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in_China View Post
The CRH380BL-6402, that got a 487km/h on 9th of January 2011 was a modified train, where 4 trailer cars were left out and traction power raised.
It survived the high-speed run without damages on component - in contrary to the catinary, which had to be maintained for three days after the run.

The CRH380AL, which has done his 486km/h run on 3rd of January 2011, was - according to rumors and persons, who have seen the train on CARS testring in Beijing - a 14-car-train (instead of 16 cars in normal trainset). Train shall be on it's way to museum, suffering serious damages on motors and boogies (boogie on CHR380A is a modified version of CRH2-boogie with additional dampers and anti-roll-bar).

I would be pleased if somebody could verify the 14-car-thesis on pictures of record train.
I've confirmed that the CRH380BL's test was done with a 12-unit train configuration of 8M4T, as opposed to the regular service 8M8T configuration. The four trailers carrying battery packs for normal operations were removed from the trainset. The four trailers that were left on the train had consisted of two control cab trailers and two trailers carrying the catinary assemblies.


However, the story on the CRH380AL was at least half incorrect. The regular service CRH380AL have a 14M2T configuration in the following pattern.

TC-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-TC

Because the trailer cars on the CRH380AL are also the control cars, it is impossible for them to be removed. Which means that two motor cars would have to be removed inorder for the CRH380AL to operat in a 14-unit configuration. This seems unlikely and counterproductive.
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Last edited by UD2; January 17th, 2011 at 05:41 AM.
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Old January 17th, 2011, 08:40 AM   #688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UD2 View Post
I've confirmed that the CRH380BL's test was done with a 12-unit train configuration of 8M4T, as opposed to the regular service 8M8T configuration. The four trailers carrying battery packs for normal operations were removed from the trainset. The four trailers that were left on the train had consisted of two control cab trailers and two trailers carrying the catinary assemblies.


However, the story on the CRH380AL was at least half incorrect. The regular service CRH380AL have a 14M2T configuration in the following pattern.

TC-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-TC

Because the trailer cars on the CRH380AL are also the control cars, it is impossible for them to be removed. Which means that two motor cars would have to be removed inorder for the CRH380AL to operat in a 14-unit configuration. This seems unlikely and counterproductive.
True. With 14 cars they would have had a smaller Motor-Trailer ratio. I am curious if he comes back providing more information on that.

On the other hand, your knowledge of the CRH380al seems very superficial. Sure the CRH2 was the starting point for the design work for CRH380a(l), but almost none of the key components in the latter was taken over from the former. In particular, the motor and bogies in crh380a(l) are all redesigned.

Perhaps you ought to try visiting some technical rail forums before making silly and facile comments on technical matters.

Of course the new motor and bogie in crh380a(l) does not mean what in_China claims to have heard cannot be true. So let's see if he can provide some sources.
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Old January 17th, 2011, 09:09 AM   #689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post

Perhaps you ought to try visiting some technical rail forums before making silly and facile comments on technical matters.
this is uncalled for. even on those forums such debates can be seen on a daily basis.
I don't agree with him on 380A comments, but there is no reason to lose cool.
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Last edited by fragel; January 17th, 2011 at 09:14 AM.
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Old January 17th, 2011, 10:15 AM   #690
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this is uncalled for. even on those forums such debates can be seen on a daily basis.
I don't agree with him on 380A comments, but there is no reason to lose cool.
Is that autological?
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Old January 17th, 2011, 01:13 PM   #691
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Originally Posted by UD2 View Post
It is even more reasonable for both train's catinary to be trashed after this use. In fact, I’d surprised if the overhead power lines didn't also need maintenance after these endeavors.
The overhead power lines are the catenary (well, specifically the structures that hold up the cable). I am not aware that the word has been used to describe the electrical collection system on the top of the vehicle. I wouldn't expect the train's pantograph to have been damaged significantly - they are much more solid than the catenary. If they were damaged they can be replaced quite quickly. The catenary is often damaged by these tests as they are tension-critical, the tension must be set to ensure the correct amount of vibration in the cables as the vehicle passes. Of course outside the design specifications it may not have been possible to raise and balance the tension high enough to stop any vibration-related damage. The cable could also have just been shredded by the friction.
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Last edited by makita09; January 17th, 2011 at 01:20 PM.
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Old January 17th, 2011, 09:48 PM   #692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
True. With 14 cars they would have had a smaller Motor-Trailer ratio. I am curious if he comes back providing more information on that.

On the other hand, your knowledge of the CRH380al seems very superficial. Sure the CRH2 was the starting point for the design work for CRH380a(l), but almost none of the key components in the latter was taken over from the former. In particular, the motor and bogies in crh380a(l) are all redesigned.

Perhaps you ought to try visiting some technical rail forums before making silly and facile comments on technical matters.

Of course the new motor and bogie in crh380a(l) does not mean what in_China claims to have heard cannot be true. So let's see if he can provide some sources.

I said based on a design. didn't I? never did i ever mention that the CRH380A shared any components with the CRH2.
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Old January 17th, 2011, 09:50 PM   #693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makita09 View Post
The overhead power lines are the catenary (well, specifically the structures that hold up the cable). I am not aware that the word has been used to describe the electrical collection system on the top of the vehicle. I wouldn't expect the train's pantograph to have been damaged significantly - they are much more solid than the catenary. If they were damaged they can be replaced quite quickly. The catenary is often damaged by these tests as they are tension-critical, the tension must be set to ensure the correct amount of vibration in the cables as the vehicle passes. Of course outside the design specifications it may not have been possible to raise and balance the tension high enough to stop any vibration-related damage. The cable could also have just been shredded by the friction.
you're very correct. I was tired and sleepy and got it all confused.
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Old January 17th, 2011, 10:45 PM   #694
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I said based on a design. didn't I? never did i ever mention that the CRH380A shared any components with the CRH2.
You said that "CRH380AL is largely based on the technology of the CRH2". That statement is literally wrong.

But more importantly, understood in the loose sense of "based on" - that is, in the sense in which your statement is true - it does not support the way you are using it to make plausible in_China's rumor that crh380al was damaged badly.

In the loose sense of "based on", the ICE3 is based on the technology of ICE1 (or substitute any current generation Shinkansen, and first generation Shinkansen, respectively). But that fact has no tendency whatsoever to show that, because ICE1 is designed to run at 200km/h, ICE3 would likely be damaged badly at a speed say near 400km/h.

For this reason, the only reasonable way to understand your statement - i.e., the only way to make you out to be saying something relevant - is to understand your use of "based on" in a VERY strong sense, in which case your statement is plainly wrong.

Hence the advice for you to spend more time on the technical details. ourail.com is a good place to start.
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Old January 18th, 2011, 02:36 AM   #695
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Hence the advice for you to spend more time on the technical details. ourail.com is a good place to start.

Need "invitation code" to register, do you have one?
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Old January 18th, 2011, 05:28 AM   #696
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I asked for the source because probably his source is wiki. In Wikipedia, they cite an article as the source for boogie design on 380A is based on CRH2. When you go and check the source, there is nothing They just compare 380A to CRH2 to show how much development have been done in high speed rail tech. As fas as I know boogie on 380A is completely different than that of CRH2.

Last edited by foxmulder; January 18th, 2011 at 06:48 AM.
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Old January 18th, 2011, 06:55 AM   #697
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Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
I asked for the source because probably his source is wiki. In Wikipedia, they site an article as the source for boogie design on 380A is based on CRH2. When you go and check the source, there is nothing They just compare 380A to CRH2 to show how much development have been done in high speed rail tech. As fas as I know boogie on 380A is completely different than that of CRH2.
the CRH380A's bogie are based and redesigned from the CRH2C Stage two's bogie, the SWMB-400/SWTB-400 is totally developed by China and it's totally different with the DT206/TR7004B used in CRH2A, which is developed by Japanese.

the CRH380A article on wikipedia is written by me

SW means "CSR Sifang Works"

1.the origin types of CRH2A and the initial batch of trainsets use DT206/TR7004B bogie which is the same with E2-1000, designed and manufacturered by Hitachi
2. in cooperation with Kawasaki, CSR developed SW-220 bogie, to be use in top speed of 160 km/h trainsets.
3. CSR then developed SWMB-250/SWTB-250 bogie to be equiped on later delivered Chinese made CRH2A, CRH2B and CRH2E
4. CSR then developed SWMB-300/SWTB-300 on CRH2C Stage one, SWMB-350/SWTB-350 on CRH2C Stage two.
5. the newest version of his series bogie is the SWMB-400/SWTB-400, to be used on CRH380A and CIT400 and probablly later CIT 500 and CRH420

so basically, the bogie is a Chinese design and developed from CRH2C stage two.

everyone must remember, CRH2C is not a Japanese design in terms of the bogie.

the paragraph about the CRH380A bogie on wikipedia:

Quote:
Safe and reliable high-speed bogie,equiped with SWMB-400/SWTB-400 non-boster bogies, The bogie is redesigned from SWMB-350/SWTB-350 bogie used by CRH2C, the critical instability speed is 550 km/h. The new train's derail coefficient is 0.34 at speed of 386.3 km/h while the maximun derail coefficient of CRH2A is 0.73.[8]

Last edited by greenlion; January 18th, 2011 at 07:04 AM.
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Old January 18th, 2011, 10:41 AM   #698
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Need "invitation code" to register, do you have one?
I was not aware of that. And no, unfortunately, I do not have an "invitation code".
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Old January 18th, 2011, 08:33 PM   #699
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Originally Posted by greenlion View Post
the CRH380A's bogie are based and redesigned from the CRH2C Stage two's bogie, the SWMB-400/SWTB-400 is totally developed by China and it's totally different with the DT206/TR7004B used in CRH2A, which is developed by Japanese.

the CRH380A article on wikipedia is written by me

SW means "CSR Sifang Works"

1.the origin types of CRH2A and the initial batch of trainsets use DT206/TR7004B bogie which is the same with E2-1000, designed and manufacturered by Hitachi
2. in cooperation with Kawasaki, CSR developed SW-220 bogie, to be use in top speed of 160 km/h trainsets.
3. CSR then developed SWMB-250/SWTB-250 bogie to be equiped on later delivered Chinese made CRH2A, CRH2B and CRH2E
4. CSR then developed SWMB-300/SWTB-300 on CRH2C Stage one, SWMB-350/SWTB-350 on CRH2C Stage two.
5. the newest version of his series bogie is the SWMB-400/SWTB-400, to be used on CRH380A and CIT400 and probablly later CIT 500 and CRH420

so basically, the bogie is a Chinese design and developed from CRH2C stage two.

everyone must remember, CRH2C is not a Japanese design in terms of the bogie.

the paragraph about the CRH380A bogie on wikipedia:
Thanks for clarifying.
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Old January 21st, 2011, 11:19 PM   #700
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Finally, someone shot a video of the CRH380BL trainset departing at full acceleration from a station in revenue service. The propulsion is sweet XD Enjoy
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