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Old January 22nd, 2011, 12:24 AM   #701
AlexNL
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It sounds almost exactly like the ICE-3-trainsets that I see running around in the Netherlands. Perhaps some differences due to acoustics.
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Old January 22nd, 2011, 02:57 AM   #702
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It sounds almost exactly like the ICE-3-trainsets that I see running around in the Netherlands. Perhaps some differences due to acoustics.
It is derived from ICE 3.......
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Old January 22nd, 2011, 09:55 AM   #703
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Nice. Love 16 car trains!
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Old January 22nd, 2011, 12:05 PM   #704
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It is derived from ICE 3.......
No no no, the chinese invented hsr and are now looking to export THEIR technology!
I've been watching cctv, i know what's going on.
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Old January 22nd, 2011, 01:08 PM   #705
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Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
No no no, the chinese invented hsr and are now looking to export THEIR technology!
I've been watching cctv, i know what's going on.
Haha good one, sir!

let's just hope Mika doesn't come around again to teach us uneducated fools a lesson
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Old January 22nd, 2011, 03:01 PM   #706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
No no no, the chinese invented hsr and are now looking to export THEIR technology!
I've been watching cctv, i know what's going on.

best one!
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Old January 22nd, 2011, 03:10 PM   #707
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The CRH380BL-6402, that got a 487km/h on 9th of January 2011 was a modified train, where 4 trailer cars were left out and traction power raised.
It survived the high-speed run without damages on component - in contrary to the catinary, which had to be maintained for three days after the run.

The CRH380AL, which has done his 486km/h run on 3rd of January 2011, was - according to rumors and persons, who have seen the train on CARS testring in Beijing - a 14-car-train (instead of 16 cars in normal trainset). Train shall be on it's way to museum, suffering serious damages on motors and boogies (boogie on CHR380A is a modified version of CRH2-boogie with additional dampers and anti-roll-bar).

I would be pleased if somebody could verify the 14-car-thesis on pictures of record train.
Hi, are you still there? I didn't mean to scare you off. I was and am actually interested to learn more details about the status of the CRH380AL that did the test on Dec 3, 2010. I think it is not impossible at all for what you mentioned to be true. If you know of any sources or further information, it would be great to know.

It IS kind of strange that not a single CRH380AL is currently in revenue service, while hordes of CRH380A are currently serving multiple routes, and sometimes under very stressful schedules.
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Old January 22nd, 2011, 04:10 PM   #708
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Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
No no no, the chinese invented hsr and are now looking to export THEIR technology!
I've been watching cctv, i know what's going on.
The Chinese did not invent neither the train, which was a British invention, nor the iCE 3, they bought the techonlgy of the latter and doped up the engines.

They did not invent the asynchronous motors mounted on the train you mentioned. There is nothing wrong to buy technology from other countries and then understanding it, and retrofitting it . It has always been the case. The design of this CRH 380 is clearly that of the ICE3, and the engine noise is typical of the engines mounted on the ICE3.
Whether or not the chinese have modified the ICE3 sufficiently to warrant an international patent on it, it is another matter.
Nevertheless, now the Chinese are ready to compete on the international markets against the same companies from whom they originally bought the rail technology.


The Chinese ventured into high speed train on their own sometime ago with disastrous results.
After that negative experience , very wisely, they decided to buy mature High speed rail technology from Japan, France, Germany, and Canada (Bombardier).

They ordered HSTs from these countries together with the relevant transfer of technology.

Finally, when they understood the foreign technology they bought from abroad, they started making their own modifications and they own versions of the original trains, pushing the original technical train envelopes to their limits.

The only thing the chinese did not managed to buy from overseas companies were the active tilting train mechanisms which, incidentally, are of limited, or of no use, in straight and very high speed lines.

Initially even the ballastless HSLs line technology was imported from abroad ( from Germany and Japan) and the first HSL lines built without ballast were constructed by foreign companies, or their constructions was supervised by foreign companies.
The German ICE3 Velaro reached 403/h km a while ago, and Germany is building a Velaro for Russia capable of 400 km/h...
The 380 -420 km/h used in revenue might be useful, and perhaps profitable, in a Country such as China, where it is possibile to cover very long distances with non-stop HS trains. For the very small nations of continental Europe (small compared to China) it is another matter.

In Europe we have many towns which are 50-100 km apart, and and in these cases a 400 km/h high speed train would be of no use.

Furthermore, neither the western rail technology nor the Chinese one has yet managed to build a 400+ km/h train that, at that speed, consumes less energy, and also with lower wear to the infrastructure than a train travelling at 300 -320 km/h.

This is the real challenge!


Sometime a little intellectual honesty does not hurt.

Last edited by joseph1951; January 23rd, 2011 at 02:09 AM. Reason: typos
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Old January 22nd, 2011, 05:07 PM   #709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joseph1951 View Post
The Chinese did not invent neither the train, which was a British invention, nor the iCE 3, they boiught the techonolgy of the latter and doped up the engines.

They did not invent the asynchronous motors mounted on the train you mentioned. There is nothing wrong to buy technology from other countries and then understanding it, and retrofitting it . It has always been the case. The design of this CRH 380 is clearly that of the ICE3, and the engine noise is typical of the engines mounted on the iCE3. Whether or not the chinese have modified the iCE3 sufficiently to warrant an international patent on it, it is another matter.
Nevertheless now the Chinese are ready to compete on the international markets against the same companies they originally bought the rail technology.


The Chinese venture into high speed train on their own sometime ago with disastrous results.
After that negative experience , very wisely, they decided to buy mature High speed rail technology from Japan, France, Germany, and Canada (Bombardier).

They ordered HSTs from these countries together with the relevant transfer of technology.
Finally, when they understood the foreign technology they bought from abroad, they started making their own modifications and they own versions of the original trains pushing the original technical train envelopes to their limits.

The only thing the chinese did not managed to buy from overseas companies were the active tilting train mechanisms which, incidentally, are of limited or no use in straight Very Hihgh Speed lines.

Initially even the ballastless HSLs line techonology was imported from abroad (Germany and Japan) and the first HSLs lines built without ballast were constructed by foreign companies, or their constructions was supervised by foreign companies.
The German ICE3 Velaro reached 403/h km a while ago, and Germany is buiklding a Velaro for Russia capable of 400 km/h...
The 380 -420 km/h used in revenue might be useful and perhaps profitable in a Country such as China, were is possibile to cover very long distances with non stop HS trains. For the very small nations of continental Europe (small compared to China) is another matter.

In Europe we have many towns which are 50-100 km apart and and in these cases a 400 km/h high speed train would be of no use.

Furthermore, neither the western Rail technology nor the Chinese one has yet managed to build a 400+ km/h train that, at that speed, consumes less energy and also wear the infrastructure less than a train travelling at 300 -320 km/h.

This is the real challenge!


Sometime a little intellectual honesty does not hurt.
I think Silly walks was just joking.
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Old January 22nd, 2011, 05:15 PM   #710
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Joke or no joke, well put on joseph1951's part. If there was a FAQ for this thread, his post should be kept there.
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Old January 22nd, 2011, 05:16 PM   #711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zergcerebrates View Post
I think Silly walks was just joking.
I think joseph1951 understood that
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Old January 22nd, 2011, 09:52 PM   #712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexisMD View Post
I think joseph1951 understood that
I doubt it based on his last sentence, but it doesn't matter. joseph gave a good summary of his own.
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Old January 22nd, 2011, 09:55 PM   #713
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BTW, isn't everyone aware of that Siemens is involved in CRH380B? Just like everyone knows CRH380D (previously listed as CRH380C) is a Bombardier designed trainset. I thought the debate was somehow focused on CRH380A.

And I don't think the key point is whether China invented HST or not--everyone knows it is not true. The key point is whether Chinese companies can legally sell their products(bought, modified, developed) abroad. once this is settled, all claims are just promotional mumbo jumbos.
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 02:12 AM   #714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fragel View Post
1-
BTW, isn't everyone aware of that Siemens is involved in CRH380B? .

And I don't think the key point is whether China invented HST or not--everyone knows it is not true.
2-
The key point is whether Chinese companies can legally sell their products(bought, modified, developed) abroad. once this is settled, all claims are just promotional mumbo jumbos.
1-
I do.
2-
I agree!

PS:
I suspect that fairly soon we, in Western Europe , will import HS trains, built in China.

In a few years the Chinese have made astonishing progress in mastering this type of thechnology.
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 02:19 AM   #715
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In a few years the Chinese have made astonishing progress in mastering this type of thechnology.
This is why democracy sucks and socialist china will always be ahead of western progress.... because our rediculous excuses for politicians can never agree on anything, and they're getting paid the money that should be going into capital projects that benefit the greater good...
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 03:39 AM   #716
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jeez, let's not turn this nice thread into a flamebait.

political system has nothing to do with rail construction. plus, it is the non-socialist countries that invented trains and then HSR, and China is just catching up in all means of transportation.
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Last edited by fragel; January 23rd, 2011 at 03:54 AM.
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 05:06 AM   #717
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jeez, let's not turn this nice thread into a flamebait.

political system has nothing to do with rail construction. plus, it is the non-socialist countries that invented trains and then HSR, and China is just catching up in all means of transportation.
haha yeah i know....... but lets be honest, no other country in the world can (at this point) parallel china in construction and infastructure improvement, simply because they're too busy squabbling about other things to really care about improving anything accept the money in their own pockets .....
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 06:22 AM   #718
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haha yeah i know....... but lets be honest, no other country in the world can (at this point) parallel china in construction and infastructure improvement, simply because they're too busy squabbling about other things to really care about improving anything accept the money in their own pockets .....
Well. Most of the Western countries did go through massive building booms when they started massive economic growth. Difference is China is building its railway system when HSR is pretty common. Sadly USA two massive building booms came during the steam loco period and rise of auto after WW2.
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 07:13 PM   #719
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Well. Most of the Western countries did go through massive building booms when they started massive economic growth. Difference is China is building its railway system when HSR is pretty common. Sadly USA two massive building booms came during the steam loco period and rise of auto after WW2.
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 10:38 PM   #720
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Well. Most of the Western countries did go through massive building booms when they started massive economic growth. Difference is China is building its railway system when HSR is pretty common. Sadly USA two massive building booms came during the steam loco period and rise of auto after WW2.
Both of which would not have been possible if the government had not instituted policies and programing to support and fund those periods of growth.
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