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Old July 10th, 2011, 02:45 PM   #861
Svartmetall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika Montwald View Post


FYI:

Many of China HST Operating Standard are much higher than other existing HST lines:

1) CRH380A trains power output raised to 9,600 kw from the CRH2 trains' 4,800 kw.

2) Sustainable operating speed increased to 380 kmph from 200-250 kmph.

3) Derailment coefficient lowered to 0.13 from CRH2 trains' 0.73


If one is not emotional and one is scientific, then one quickly realizes that raising the Operating Standard required many, many real breakthrough innovations.
There is no other way around this.
Now this has nothing to do with what he was saying about patent violations. He didn't dispute whether or not the rolling stock was of good quality, what he did post was that patents were being filed by the ministry of railways that may belong to other companies. It will be interesting to see whether this eventuates into anything or whether the accusations are false. If the accusations are proven to be false I am sure that news will be posted here.

Please, everyone, stop being reactionary to any negative news about China. If someone is being anti-China itself or anti-Chinese I will step in and that person will be punished, but there is absolutely no need to be so defensive when someone posts legitimate (if negative) news. I've asked nicely, I've cleaned up this thread, but to keep things running smoothly I will take stronger actions if it derails again (no pun intended).
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Old July 10th, 2011, 04:42 PM   #862
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Originally Posted by Fan Railer View Post
Here's another video that someone else posted up on youtube. better angle :

Enjoy
I really love the design of the CIT 400B it's so sleek and smooth, they've actually made a lot of changes from the Velaro it was based on, ansd it looks like they're well on their way to designing a completely home-built HSR set
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Old August 12th, 2011, 02:40 PM   #863
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Bullet trains told to reduce speed

By Wang Zhenghua (China Daily)



A worker cleans a high-speed train before it departs from Shanghai for Beijing. The State Council plans to lower the speed of the trains in the wake of a deadly train crash that killed 40 people last month. [Photo/Xinhua]

Decision shows slower program for rails: experts


BEIJING - China has decided to lower the operating speed for its bullet trains due to safety concerns amid an overhaul of the high-speed rail system.

The decision, made by an executive meeting of the State Council presided over by Premier Wen Jiabao on Wednesday, came after a bullet train crash last month in which 40 people died and nearly 200 were injured.

The decision is a signal that China is slowing its ambitious high-speed rail program, which has put the country in the same league as Japan and Europe in terms of high-speed rail development, experts said.

The country also decided to reevaluate the safety systems of rail projects that have been approved but yet to start construction, and to suspend the examination or approval of newly proposed projects.

According to the Ministry of Railways, during the initial stages, trains with a top design speed of 350 kilometers per hour will be lowered to 300 km/h, and the trains designed to run up to 250 km/h will operate at 200 km/h.

The rails whose speed was previously raised to 200 km/h will be scaled down to 160 km/h. Ticket prices will also be reduced.

...

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2...t_13089256.htm
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Old August 12th, 2011, 06:04 PM   #864
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Looks like the Shanghai Faction is fighting hard to smear the High Speed Rail system. I tried to buy a ticket to Beijing today and was told they don't even know when they will resume sales. It's so unprofessional and smacks of a deliberate plot from the very top!
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Old August 13th, 2011, 03:10 AM   #865
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Wait a minute, didnt Bombadier design these trains?
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Old August 13th, 2011, 05:54 AM   #866
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Wait a minute, didnt Bombadier design these trains?
Nope, Bombardier only designed the CRH1 and is currently designing the CRH380D.

I posted my question about the CRH380D on the High Speed Rail thread but should actually be here; any new info on the development of the CRH380D?
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Old August 14th, 2011, 08:19 PM   #867
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So other sets are designed by the Chinese?
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Old August 14th, 2011, 09:57 PM   #868
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CRH380D/DL is officially designed by Bombadier, they designed Zefiro 380 specifically to satisfy the MOR contract. It's a different situation with CRH380B which are designed in China without official involvement from Siemens. Regarding the development of CRH380D, I have to assume it's on a slow track ever since Sheng took over.
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Old August 15th, 2011, 05:11 AM   #869
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54 Sets of CRH380BL recalled by CNR for inspection and investigation into operational failures. Manufacturing of 17 sets currently ongoing are also suspended indefinitely for the time being.

http://news.163.com/11/0812/04/7B7RCU4C00014AED.html

HUGE setback.
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Old August 15th, 2011, 08:24 PM   #870
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Not really.
It's not even 10% of total HST constructed.
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Old August 15th, 2011, 11:45 PM   #871
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Not really.
It's not even 10% of total HST constructed.
You're missing the point (In fact, you're even proving my point). This is a big setback psychologically and propaganda-wise. The government has already suspended approval of construction of new HSR lines, and the withdrawal of trains from the Beijing Shanghai Line will disrupt scheduling. There is also little chance now that CSR will receive that contract to supply rolling stock for California's HSR project, halting China's dreams of exporting their HSR technology to the international market (whether it is really theirs or not).
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Old August 16th, 2011, 12:10 AM   #872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fan Railer View Post
You're missing the point (In fact, you're even proving my point). This is a big setback psychologically and propaganda-wise. The government has already suspended approval of construction of new HSR lines, and the withdrawal of trains from the Beijing Shanghai Line will disrupt scheduling. There is also little chance now that CSR will receive that contract to supply rolling stock for California's HSR project, halting China's dreams of exporting their HSR technology to the international market (whether it is really theirs or not).
After this accident they shouldn't , i rather have a Japanese or German company due it....
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Old August 16th, 2011, 05:32 PM   #873
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After this accident they shouldn't , i rather have a Japanese or German company due it....
Funny how people feel this way, cuz this accident is not related to the trains at all but rather management, and also the trains involved are of European (BST CRH1) and Japanese (Kawasaki-Sifang CRH2) origins. Furthermore people tend to view German trains as safer despite that 1. ICE's train related accident killed way more people, and 2. Transrapid's management related accident caused the only maglev fatalities in the world.

On the other hand, like I have mentioned multiple times I do not see CSR or CNR winning the CAHSR contract regardless of this accident. We want our trains built in America, so the Chinese designs will not offer significant cost advantage over Japanese or European ones. Also the Japanese showed willingness to finance a large portion of the construction cost, which I doubt either CSR or CNR still have the capability to do so given their current financial state.
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Old August 16th, 2011, 05:51 PM   #874
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
Funny how people feel this way, cuz this accident is not related to the trains at all but rather management, and also the trains involved are of European (BST CRH1) and Japanese (Kawasaki-Sifang CRH2) origins. Furthermore people tend to view German trains as safer despite that 1. ICE's train related accident killed way more people, and 2. Transrapid's management related accident caused the only maglev fatalities in the world.

On the other hand, like I have mentioned multiple times I do not see CSR or CNR winning the CAHSR contract regardless of this accident. We want our trains built in America, so the Chinese designs will not offer significant cost advantage over Japanese or European ones. Also the Japanese showed willingness to finance a large portion of the construction cost, which I doubt either CSR or CNR still have the capability to do so given their current financial state.
Here we go trying to place blame of the accident as human error and not a technical flaw of their system that had been indicated and admitted by people directly involved.
In a short while you'll be hearing PRC fan boys stating that their equipment are 100% reliable and that the accident was due 100% human error.
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Old August 16th, 2011, 06:48 PM   #875
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The thing that struck me was the reference to "going through a red signal" (or words to that effect).

Hopefully this was something lost in translation and they are not expecting drivers to operate using standerd signalling? I assumed that the signaling would be in cab?

It is a shame that the crash occured, but i do not think that it is suprising. China has a history of taking "great leaps forward" that ultimately cause more harm than good. Obviously it is not possible for a nation to become pre-eminant at what is a relativly complicated skillset overnight - there is no substitute for experience - and i hope that this is a lesson learned and China takes a more leaisurely route to the top.
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Old August 16th, 2011, 08:41 PM   #876
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Here we go trying to place blame of the accident as human error and not a technical flaw of their system that had been indicated and admitted by people directly involved.
In a short while you'll be hearing PRC fan boys stating that their equipment are 100% reliable and that the accident was due 100% human error.
Yes there are possible technical reasons behind the accident, but it's related to track signal systems not the trains themselves. The root cause is still management because the fact that lighting strike caused power and signal loss itself is not acceptable. It begs to ask why didn't MOR specify lighting strike resistance in its RFP. Also why Wenzhou South dispatch let Yongjia Station to release D301 even before automatic control has been restored. The investigation of this accident is highly political, the current MOR management will try to shift the blame as much as possible, and blame on a circuit board is the easily way to go. Nobody will claim Chinese trains are 100% reliable since the latest recall of CRH380BLs, their problems during service and factory QC are pretty well documented. In fact I doubt anybody can claim the reliability of CRH even prior to the accident, since we all know how "well" CRH1 performed during its early days of service.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobbo View Post
The thing that struck me was the reference to "going through a red signal" (or words to that effect).
Hopefully this was something lost in translation and they are not expecting drivers to operate using standerd signalling? I assumed that the signaling would be in cab?
The driver received all green lights from CTCS incab. But at that time CTCS is in manual mode so the driver should be instructed to not follow the visual drive protocol and limit to 20km/h (the mode D3115 was under). Sadly that's not the case because Wenzhou South dispatch let D301 leave Yongjia Station in normal operating mode (250km/h and only follow in cab signaling). Now the question about equipment failure is focused on this fact too, because I'm under the impression that if the system is in manual then the driver should get all green in cab signal.
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Old August 16th, 2011, 10:03 PM   #877
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiBlue View Post
Here we go trying to place blame of the accident as human error and not a technical flaw of their system that had been indicated and admitted by people directly involved.
In a short while you'll be hearing PRC fan boys stating that their equipment are 100% reliable and that the accident was due 100% human error.

He has contributed to this topic much much more than you, If he is a fan boy, you are a ....
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Old August 17th, 2011, 12:24 AM   #878
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Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
He has contributed to this topic much much more than you, If he is a fan boy, you are a ....
You got my vote too.
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Old August 17th, 2011, 05:10 AM   #879
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Recalled CRH380BLs arrived at Shanghai Hongqiao CRH maintenance depot pending inspection and repair. (Pictures courtesy of Xinhua and Sina)










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Old August 17th, 2011, 05:18 AM   #880
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$5bn Shanghai-Beijing railway dual listing IPO planned for next year (2012) on Hong Kong and Shanghai stock markets has been officially postponed until at least 2013. The company is blaming government regulatory hurdles implemented as part of the safety review for the delay. Chinese media is saying theirs a recognition by national government that there would be no public appetite for a rail IPO of any kind in the current climate.
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