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Old August 1st, 2012, 04:02 AM   #1121
foxmulder
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When I was first saw design CRH380A, it made me somewhat disappointed since it wasn't my favorite design among the 20 that had been considered (it was 2nd on my list ). Apparently, they saved my favorite for the 500km/h one. That's why I really hope to see it in operation.
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Old August 1st, 2012, 11:59 PM   #1122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post


The CRH6 is more streamlined than I thought. I thought the nose was flatter. Those are some really good looking trains.
It's a wide angle shot so it appears to be more streamlined, it is actually pretty flat I have posted a side shot several pages back IIRC.
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Old August 2nd, 2012, 02:00 AM   #1123
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500kmph CRH, CRH380A, CRH6, Beijing metro side by side



from weibo.com/csrxcb
hi, I highly doubt that you are a weiboer, ?

Is the 500kmph CRH on the left? It is so square-headed.
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Old August 2nd, 2012, 08:44 AM   #1124
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hi, I highly doubt that you are a weiboer, ?

Is the 500kmph CRH on the left? It is so square-headed.
A little common sense would point out that maybe the most streamlined one is the 500 kph unit? Keep that in mind, and try guessing again.......
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Old August 3rd, 2012, 04:56 AM   #1125
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500 kmph should be on the right most...

In my opinion, it looks ugly.
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Old August 3rd, 2012, 08:37 AM   #1126
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CRH 6



from weibo.com/csrxcb
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Old August 3rd, 2012, 09:37 PM   #1127
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They are taking FOREVER with the CRH6. Just put some trucks on the damn thing and deliver the first trainset for testing.... They're more than a year overdue now.
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Old August 4th, 2012, 12:17 AM   #1128
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CRH6 turns out to be quite nicely looking actually.
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Old August 4th, 2012, 07:28 AM   #1129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
It's a wide angle shot so it appears to be more streamlined, it is actually pretty flat I have posted a side shot several pages back IIRC.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
CRH6 turns out to be quite nicely looking actually.
Yeah, the head does seem more flat in the regular picture. Why isn't it more streamlined? I guess the shape still reduces the wind resistance effectively at 125mph(200km/h). Probably more aerodynamic than the CRH1. Is the CRH6 supposed to replace the CRH1?
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Old August 4th, 2012, 12:13 PM   #1130
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In terms of drag it is the rear of the train (or of any vehicle) that produces the most (apart from the surface drag from friction that occurs along the entire length of the vehicle and for which streamlining has no effect). The benefit of having really pointy noses only really starts at proper high speeds. At 200km/h the extra 50 or so seats that a flat-ish cab allows pays for any extra energy required to overcome the marginal increase in wind resistance.
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Old August 4th, 2012, 03:36 PM   #1131
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The benefit of having really pointy noses only really starts at proper high speeds. At 200km/h the extra 50 or so seats that a flat-ish cab allows pays for any extra energy required to overcome the marginal increase in wind resistance.
This is under the assumption that a more pointy nose cuts into seating capacity. However, you can also keep the same seating capacity, and [b]extend[/]b the nose forwards, not cutting into the original train length. Just make the train 204 or 208 meters in stead of 200 meters. The doors will still be in the same place, the nose will just stick out a bit more.
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Old August 4th, 2012, 10:05 PM   #1132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
This is under the assumption that a more pointy nose cuts into seating capacity. However, you can also keep the same seating capacity, and [b]extend[/]b the nose forwards, not cutting into the original train length. Just make the train 204 or 208 meters in stead ofin 200 meters. The doors will still be in the same place, the nose will just stick out a bit more.
but in terms of initial cost effectiveness it is compromised. Your paying more the design, engineering, and construction for chunk of train that doesn't perform financially. When people first think of high speed trains they think of something that looks like a jet but if you look at alot of 200-250km/h trainsets like WESTbahn, X3, GMB Class 71, SJ X40 etc. You really dont need to look like a F22 to get it to work.
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Old August 5th, 2012, 01:21 PM   #1133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
This is under the assumption that a more pointy nose cuts into seating capacity. However, you can also keep the same seating capacity, and [b]extend[/]b the nose forwards, not cutting into the original train length. Just make the train 204 or 208 meters in stead of 200 meters. The doors will still be in the same place, the nose will just stick out a bit more.
Thats absolutely fine if you haven't built the entire network to the international 400m train-length standard. If there are technical restrictions such as platform lengths then long noses will eat into passenger capacity. The nose on those really high speed trains is getting on for 10 metres, that would be 20 metres on one set, and 40 metres (Ok perhaps more like 30m) on two 8-car sets combined, worst case scenario.
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Old August 5th, 2012, 05:42 PM   #1134
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The pointy nose is also helpful in reducing pressure shock when entering tunnels at high speed, which isn't a huge issue for CRH6 because it'll mostly like operate at 200km/h or under. The hunky DF11 has no problem going through tunnels at 160km/h so I think the current CRH6 design will do just fine.
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Old August 8th, 2012, 05:41 PM   #1135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makita09 View Post
In terms of drag it is the rear of the train (or of any vehicle) that produces the most (apart from the surface drag from friction that occurs along the entire length of the vehicle and for which streamlining has no effect). The benefit of having really pointy noses only really starts at proper high speeds. At 200km/h the extra 50 or so seats that a flat-ish cab allows pays for any extra energy required to overcome the marginal increase in wind resistance.
In my head I tend to think of cars and how streamlined sports cars are compared to the CRH6. These trains run at racetrack speeds (125mph+/200km/h) so I kinda expect to see the same in the trains. I'm no engineer so it's possible that what they do for cars is more for looks than true aerodynamics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
The pointy nose is also helpful in reducing pressure shock when entering tunnels at high speed, which isn't a huge issue for CRH6 because it'll mostly like operate at 200km/h or under. The hunky DF11 has no problem going through tunnels at 160km/h so I think the current CRH6 design will do just fine.
Even trains in the U.S. that run at 80mph have straight up flat noses. I'm thinking of the Metro North and Northeast Regional trains we have over here near New York. Besides that, the CRH6 looks really good. I can't wait to see it running as well as the CRH500!!!!
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Old August 8th, 2012, 06:09 PM   #1136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
In my head I tend to think of cars and how streamlined sports cars are compared to the CRH6. These trains run at racetrack speeds (125mph+/200km/h) so I kinda expect to see the same in the trains. I'm no engineer so it's possible that what they do for cars is more for looks than true aerodynamics.
Its apples and oranges though.

A car is very short and very light (relatively speaking) compared to the air it is trying to push through at 125mph. Therefore aerodynamics have a significant effect. (Also the shortness of the car means the eddies at the back are still coupled to the air flow at the front).

Trains on the other hand are very long and very heavy compared to the air they are trying to push through, so aerodynamics has less of an effect. Plus, as I mentioned before, by far the majority of the friction for a 16-car train comes from surface friction along the length of the body and the wheelsets etc - which would still exist even if the nose was 200 metres long.

The noses of high speed trains are as much for improved impulses when entering tunnels, and avoidance of lateral buffeting, as they are for lowering energy consumption due to wind resistance. In terms of the latter, it is the rear elongated nose of the train that saves more energy than the one that is at the front.
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Old August 8th, 2012, 07:07 PM   #1137
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Thanks for the explanation, makes much more sense now.
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Old August 9th, 2012, 05:13 AM   #1138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makita09 View Post
Its apples and oranges though.

A car is very short and very light (relatively speaking) compared to the air it is trying to push through at 125mph. Therefore aerodynamics have a significant effect. (Also the shortness of the car means the eddies at the back are still coupled to the air flow at the front).

Trains on the other hand are very long and very heavy compared to the air they are trying to push through, so aerodynamics has less of an effect. Plus, as I mentioned before, by far the majority of the friction for a 16-car train comes from surface friction along the length of the body and the wheelsets etc - which would still exist even if the nose was 200 metres long.

The noses of high speed trains are as much for improved impulses when entering tunnels, and avoidance of lateral buffeting, as they are for lowering energy consumption due to wind resistance. In terms of the latter, it is the rear elongated nose of the train that saves more energy than the one that is at the front.
No wonder. I once went railfanning for Taiwan HSR and wondered why I only felt the wind AFTER the train passed.
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Old August 20th, 2012, 05:54 PM   #1139
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CRH6 -200

http://ww1.sinaimg.cn/bmiddle/71ba50...vyo7yzhd7j.jpg

http://ww2.sinaimg.cn/bmiddle/88f89f...vzmaie0lzj.jpg
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Old August 20th, 2012, 05:55 PM   #1140
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