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Old September 28th, 2013, 03:45 AM   #1561
big-dog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3737 View Post
Nice looking train.
Did they based its design on the velaro ?
They look almost identical although the nose looks longer and the headlights are in a different position.
I guess so. The source says that compared to CRH380BL the new CRH380CL's nose is 2.6m longer and reduces 12% more air resistance.
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Old September 28th, 2013, 10:21 AM   #1562
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Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post


It's interesting that China decided to go with 16 car trains, does any other country with high speed rail have trains this long?
Eurostar
Shinkansen
KTX
ICE 3 x2
TGV x2
AVE x2

So, most nations actually. Granted, many of them have power cars, but modern EMU versions are being rolled out so all carriages have seats.

For someone who spends so much time on these forums, that was a surprising question to hear
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Old September 28th, 2013, 03:46 PM   #1563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sopomon View Post
Eurostar
Shinkansen
KTX
ICE 3 x2
TGV x2
AVE x2
Don't forget the eurostar TMST which is 387.18 meters long and the new velaro E320 which will also be around 400 meters long.
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Old September 28th, 2013, 07:19 PM   #1564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sopomon View Post
Eurostar
Shinkansen
KTX
ICE 3 x2
TGV x2
AVE x2

So, most nations actually. Granted, many of them have power cars, but modern EMU versions are being rolled out so all carriages have seats.

For someone who spends so much time on these forums, that was a surprising question to hear
All of them can be coupled, duh... But it is rare to see them in operation with that configuration.

For shinkansen, the norm is 8/10-car sets.

For Korea, I have no idea to be frank.

Eurostar TMST (20 car model) has 750 seats. But again, most TGVs are 10 car sets with two locos.

Chinese 16 car sets with 1000 seats are as common as 8 car sets in operation.

So, to my knowledge no other country has 400m long trains with 1000 capacity in daily use. At least, not to the extend of China.
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Old September 28th, 2013, 08:23 PM   #1565
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So, to my knowledge no other country has 400m long trains with 1000 capacity in daily use. At least, not to the extend of China.
But that wasn't the question
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Old September 28th, 2013, 10:03 PM   #1566
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Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
For shinkansen, the norm is 8/10-car sets.
No.
Tokaido Shinkansen does not permit ANY trains that do not have 16 cars. Tokaido Shinkansen also does not permit any trains that do not have exactly 1323 seats, including exactly 200 first class and exactly 1123 second class seat, but no other classes.
This also makes direct trains Tokyo-Kagoshima impossible. Kyushu Shinkansn stations fit only 8 cars, so the 16 car trains from Tokyo physically cannot pass Fukuoka. The 8 car trains from Kagoshima freely travel to Osaka, and there is no physical obstacle to continue to Tokyo - but the 8 train cars are not allowed to pass.
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Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
So, to my knowledge no other country has 400m long trains with 1000 capacity in daily use. At least, not to the extend of China.
How many Chinese trainsets have 1323 or more seats, like Shinkansen?
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Old September 28th, 2013, 10:32 PM   #1567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
All of them can be coupled, duh... But it is rare to see them in operation with that configuration. For shinkansen, the norm is 8/10-car sets. For Korea, I have no idea to be frank. Eurostar TMST (20 car model) has 750 seats. But again, most TGVs are 10 car sets with two locos. Chinese 16 car sets with 1000 seats are as common as 8 car sets in operation. So, to my knowledge no other country has 400m long trains with 1000 capacity in daily use. At least, not to the extend of China.
Actually 400m long trains with such capacity are quite common in France and Germany. seeing TGVs or ICEs running coupled is quite normal.
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Old September 28th, 2013, 11:40 PM   #1568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
Actually 400m long trains with such capacity are quite common in France and Germany. seeing TGVs or ICEs running coupled is quite normal.
It looks like a semantic distinction is being made, that 2 x 8 car units coupled cannot be compared to a single 16 car unit. For passenger seating, length, tonnage, etc they must be more or less the same. But I can see there might be some differences in driveability at speed.
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Old September 29th, 2013, 01:23 AM   #1569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
No.
Tokaido Shinkansen does not permit ANY trains that do not have 16 cars. Tokaido Shinkansen also does not permit any trains that do not have exactly 1323 seats, including exactly 200 first class and exactly 1123 second class seat, but no other classes.
This also makes direct trains Tokyo-Kagoshima impossible. Kyushu Shinkansn stations fit only 8 cars, so the 16 car trains from Tokyo physically cannot pass Fukuoka. The 8 car trains from Kagoshima freely travel to Osaka, and there is no physical obstacle to continue to Tokyo - but the 8 train cars are not allowed to pass.

How many Chinese trainsets have 1323 or more seats, like Shinkansen?
I didn't know Tokaido Shinkansen was dedicated to 16-car sets.

Chinese 16-car trains have ~1100 seats.
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Old September 29th, 2013, 10:32 AM   #1570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
Actually 400m long trains with such capacity are quite common in France and Germany. seeing TGVs or ICEs running coupled is quite normal.
The capacity in Europe is lower on the German ICE and the French TGV (except for the Duplex) on a 400m (2x200m) long train. A coupled ICE 3 has about 900 seats (that's about 30% less then in China or Japan)
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Old September 29th, 2013, 11:45 AM   #1571
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September 25th 2013

New CRH380CL comes into service on Beijing-Shanghai route before National Day holiday























by CNR小毅
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Old September 29th, 2013, 12:49 PM   #1572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
All of them can be coupled, duh... But it is rare to see them in operation with that configuration.

For shinkansen, the norm is 8/10-car sets.

For Korea, I have no idea to be frank.

Eurostar TMST (20 car model) has 750 seats. But again, most TGVs are 10 car sets with two locos.

Chinese 16 car sets with 1000 seats are as common as 8 car sets in operation.

So, to my knowledge no other country has 400m long trains with 1000 capacity in daily use. At least, not to the extend of China.
The KTX is a 20-car set. However that being said, it is not a high passenger loading train. The seat density is pretty low.
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Old September 29th, 2013, 05:23 PM   #1573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
September 25th 2013

New CRH380CL comes into service on Beijing-Shanghai route before National Day holiday



by CNR小毅
Thanks for posting those.

It looks like the design is largely based on the original CRH3/Velaro. At least judging by the appearance of any finishing elements.

The more aerodynamic nose is one clear difference which is probably supposed to reduce air resistance. But I wonder if there are any more considerable improvements? Anything to do with axle loads, bogies, motors and other fundamental technologies to make the train more efficient and comfortable? Or is it just the nose (which is still quite an important improvement perhaps)?
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Old September 29th, 2013, 06:08 PM   #1574
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Beautiful train but still CRH380A and "CRH500" are the best looking ones.
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Old September 29th, 2013, 07:07 PM   #1575
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Sir, with all due respect you forgot the in my opinion bit.
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Old September 29th, 2013, 07:18 PM   #1576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
All of them can be coupled, duh... But it is rare to see them in operation with that configuration.

For shinkansen, the norm is 8/10-car sets.

For Korea, I have no idea to be frank.

Eurostar TMST (20 car model) has 750 seats. But again, most TGVs are 10 car sets with two locos.

Chinese 16 car sets with 1000 seats are as common as 8 car sets in operation.

So, to my knowledge no other country has 400m long trains with 1000 capacity in daily use. At least, not to the extend of China.
I thought it was a widely known fact (at least among those with some interest in trains) that Japanese Shinkansen on some line was using 16 car sets. China started using them too (initially it had only 8 car EMUs) but Japanese 16 car trains remain more capacitous (albeit not by much).
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Old September 29th, 2013, 10:11 PM   #1577
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Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
..at least among those with some interest in trains...
ouch... you are so mean. I am a rail fan, ok.
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Old September 30th, 2013, 09:28 PM   #1578
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Originally Posted by thtc View Post
The capacity in Europe is lower on the German ICE and the French TGV (except for the Duplex) on a 400m (2x200m) long train. A coupled ICE 3 has about 900 seats (that's about 30% less then in China or Japan)
That's because both the TGV and the ICE use 2+2 seating in 2nd and 2+1 seating in 1st. Because the Shinkansen is wider it uses 2+3 in 2nd and 2+2 for 1st, so for every row you gain a seat. As far as I can find CRH is the same.
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Old October 1st, 2013, 12:21 AM   #1579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stingstingsting View Post
Ha I take that train almost every day! I'm pretty sure they were based on another series of train we had before this one, which was designed by Downer EDI here in Australia. But hey...

Anywho I guess the question rather is does China plan to develop something (or has developed something) akin to the TGV Duplex? Or maybe an EMU version?

All this considering that patronage of the CRH network is increasing.
So far I have not seen any serious efforts to develop something like the TGV Duplex. When China put CRH6 into service on a lot of the local commuter lines they will solve a lot of the capacity problems, as local traffic will shift away from longer distance HSR trains. Also considering China's experience in designing 160km/h class double deckers I don't think it'll be a huge challenge to make a HSR double decker if there is real demand for it.
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Old October 1st, 2013, 01:21 AM   #1580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
ouch... you are so mean. I am a rail fan, ok.
Please don't think I'm taking a piss or being ironic. It's just that I would honestly expect of you (judging by your contribution to the railway threads in SSC) to know this stuff.
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