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Old October 12th, 2010, 03:46 AM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arriaca View Post
You can learn somethings about Spanish trains in this thread
Spain doesn't have a completely indigenous train model. Talgo is a coach car manufacturer, with the locomotive provided by Bombardier.

Ditto for CAF, who works with Alstom.

Since Spain doesn't have an indigenous high speed train technology, they ended up using foreign technology of different origins.
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Old October 12th, 2010, 06:29 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by HyperMiler View Post
The difference is that Japan, Korea, Germany and the US industrial policies do not include willful theft and misappropriation of foreign intellectual property.

These countries are happy to learn from others, but what they sell is their own intellectual property that would withstand legal challenges in the US and European courts. China is a different story, where it is the state that is involved in engineering knock offs that include not only bullet trains, but fighter jets and spaceships too.

Heck, Chinese would even produce a knock off UFO if one crashlanded somewhere in China.
The Koreans have been stealing Chinese technology and culture and then claimed them as their own, since the ancient times.
All the countries were willing to work with China on highspeed railway and they do not have any complaint about the new indigenous Chinese highspeed railway tehnology. The Koreans have yet to produce their own indigenous highspeed trains. It is not surprising that the Koreans are now trying to steal Chinese highspeed train technologies, after failing to steal them from the French and the Japanese.
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Old October 12th, 2010, 07:22 AM   #143
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Zefiro 380 is sooooo sexy!!!! I hope they will find a more elegant way to put the logo "和谐号" on the front.
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Old October 12th, 2010, 02:31 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperMiler View Post
Spain doesn't have a completely indigenous train model. Talgo is a coach car manufacturer, with the locomotive provided by Bombardier.

Ditto for CAF, who works with Alstom.

Since Spain doesn't have an indigenous high speed train technology, they ended up using foreign technology of different origins.
Talgo built the complete train. Some components like motors are designed by Adtranz (S 130, S 112 and S 102), but the new Avril are 100 % Spanish design.
The same applies to CAF.
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Old October 12th, 2010, 03:51 PM   #145
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I found this on a one website, i don't know if this train are existing or a design only for future use, can anyone explain about this train a what happen to this design.
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Old October 12th, 2010, 04:36 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maldini View Post
The Koreans have been stealing Chinese technology and culture and then claimed them as their own, since the ancient times.

The Koreans have yet to produce their own indigenous highspeed trains. It is not surprising that the Koreans are now trying to steal Chinese highspeed train technologies, after failing to steal them from the French and the Japanese.

+1

I´d add they have yet to produce an indigenous culture too!
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Old October 12th, 2010, 05:39 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riles28 View Post



I found this on a one website, i don't know if this train are existing or a design only for future use, can anyone explain about this train a what happen to this design.
this is the planned CRH4 EMU300 which is the upgrade version of China Star, built by CSR Sifang factory, the sample car was completed in 2008, but no further news since then, the CRH4 was designed to run at top speed of 350km/h, rumor says the MOR had cut off the project so that CSR may focus on the development of CRH380A




here are the initial plan for the CRH train project made by MOR in 2007


CRH1 - BSP, based on Bombardier Regina
CRH2 - CSR Sifang, based on Kawasaki E2-1000
CRH3 - CNR Tangshan & CNR Changchun, based on Siemens ICE3
CRH4 - CSR Sifang, based on former CRH2 (China Star)
CRH5 - CNR Changchun, based on Alstom SM3

Last edited by greenlion; October 12th, 2010 at 06:01 PM.
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Old October 12th, 2010, 06:11 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maldini View Post
The Koreans have been stealing Chinese technology and culture and then claimed them as their own, since the ancient times.
As far as I know, they have not. They have been learning it and acknowledging it to be learned - it is only quite recently they have started claiming it as their own.
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Old October 12th, 2010, 07:52 PM   #149
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Let's stop talking off-topic guys..
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Old October 13th, 2010, 12:17 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperMiler View Post
To "obtain" tech from as many foreign train makers as possible.


France and Germany have indigenous high speed rail technology, China and Spain don't and are foreign vendor reliant. You have a multi-vendor situation when you depend on foreigners for technology.
Maybe that's why US carriers also use A330 and Air France uses 777. Because they all depend on foreigners for technology.

I mean come on, if you dislike the Chinese and enjoy trolling this board, why not come up with something intelligent.
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Old October 13th, 2010, 10:12 AM   #151
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True, you can't tell for sure that TGV's consist only in French, homegrown tehnology, as well as ICE probably isn't 100% german.

You can discuss the percentage of own technology.

Also , IP (=patents) isn't valid eternally, so the first highspeed technology of Japan, France,... can without any problem being integrated in any new technology.
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Old October 14th, 2010, 08:15 AM   #152
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Quote:
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It's not who's worse in copying...tell me who HASN'T copied????
Yes it is. In China, u can get not just fake watches but fake motorcycles and cars!

The CEO of GE said that the Chinese Government does not want GE to succeed in China. Other countries are much more honest, friendly and reasonable with foreign investors, ie, they dont try to rip them off.
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Old October 14th, 2010, 08:35 AM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by get400 View Post
Yes it is. In China, u can get not just fake watches but fake motorcycles and cars!

The CEO of GE said that the Chinese Government does not want GE to succeed in China. Other countries are much more honest, friendly and reasonable with foreign investors, ie, they dont try to rip them off.
lol, clearly you have no idea what China is like and yet you dump your stereotypical comments right away. GE already succeeded in China when Jack Welch was the CEO back then. It had and still has a very huge market share in China in many areas(appliance, locomotive, medical device, chemical industry, you name it), so my question is why the current CEO failed to achieve what Mr. Welch did many years ago--to expand its market share in China, and instead he is whining like a sore loser. This question is actually not for you, because you lack the ability to understand a thing about this matter.
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Old October 14th, 2010, 10:51 AM   #154
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^ regarding GE you might be right, but to imply that China is NOT a country with one of the worst copyright records couldn't be further from the truth. This is also partly a cultural thing as copycating is seen as a form of flattery in China. Do you really want to dispute that? While the situation is slowly advancing, it's still true that many technology-driven companies are making bad experiences regarding the protection of intellectual property.
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Old October 14th, 2010, 12:38 PM   #155
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Like those that complain don't have a history of stealing from China and everyone else? You guys stole from each other like crazy in the 1800s. So moral too that you didn't enslave people or go conquering and killing on other people's land to get where you're at? Compared to your histories of when you rose in the world China's is the most peaceful. Since when are CEOs sages of the truth? There was that study that said CEOs have the same sociopathic mentality as serial killers. Since when does GE have the right to succeed in China? GE wants a government handout from China. What else could it be unless you want to violate the rights of the Chinese people when you want to force them to buy your crap they can't afford. In both cases they don't follow the prinicples of democracy and freedom. I especially like the hypocrisy that the US's stimulus pakage is only reserved for American compnies while you whine about how you're suppose to get rich off of China's. Just remember that all the crap that is imported to the West from China is your crap. Chinese don't own it. You just outsourced that labor so your greedy CEOs can make more money at your own workers expense. And all of the sudden we're suppose to heed the words of a CEO like he was a god.
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Old October 14th, 2010, 03:13 PM   #156
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anglosaxons trash is tiring me!

they come here to talk about morality... regarding copywright!
WTF?????

remember the US embassy doing industrial spy in Germany a few years ago! major unresolved diplomatic affaire.

kidnapping scientists in Germany and Russia.

stealing Lucs Montagner discovering on HIV.

even Taylorism is a copy of production chain system of Manufactures Royales de France.

German internal combustion motors where copied enterely.

Chinese do copy, it's a fact, but compared to the US... come on!!!

learn history!
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Old October 14th, 2010, 03:25 PM   #157
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^ what happen to train talk and not false allegations.
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Old October 14th, 2010, 03:35 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luli Pop View Post
anglosaxons trash is tiring me!

they come here to talk about morality... regarding copywright!
WTF?????

remember the US embassy doing industrial spy in Germany a few years ago! major unresolved diplomatic affaire.

kidnapping scientists in Germany and Russia.

stealing Lucs Montagner discovering on HIV.

even Taylorism is a copy of production chain system of Manufactures Royales de France.

German internal combustion motors where copied enterely.

Chinese do copy, it's a fact, but compared to the US... come on!!!

learn history!
+1
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Old October 14th, 2010, 04:09 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by get400 View Post
Yes it is. In China, u can get not just fake watches but fake motorcycles and cars!

The CEO of GE said that the Chinese Government does not want GE to succeed in China. Other countries are much more honest, friendly and reasonable with foreign investors, ie, they dont try to rip them off.
So, this is why China has the biggest foreign direct investment for last two decade. Now, I got it. People like being riped off
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Old October 14th, 2010, 04:54 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dase View Post
^ regarding GE you might be right, but to imply that China is NOT a country with one of the worst copyright records couldn't be further from the truth. This is also partly a cultural thing as copycating is seen as a form of flattery in China. Do you really want to dispute that? While the situation is slowly advancing, it's still true that many technology-driven companies are making bad experiences regarding the protection of intellectual property.
I don't mind people discussing specific cases, for example, the topic in this thread. but as you can see, many examples some people use to back up their stereotypes actually work against their claims, and I just pointed out the failure of that GE example from his thread. so try to be a little more specific 'cause I am not sure what you are talking about by saying 'many companies', and more appropriately, stay on topic
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