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Old November 8th, 2013, 07:12 AM   #1621
Tk.Alv-87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanfan89 View Post
Hopefully CRH trains will be running in Taiwan soon.

I'm more looking forward to the undersea highways linking Xiamen and Kaohsiung ; Fuzhou and Taipei
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Old November 8th, 2013, 09:27 AM   #1622
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Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
So this is in effect the first exported HSR trains from China? It's like a 'trial' export after which we might see contracts signed with countries outside China's realm.
I wouldn't consider Hong Kong COMPLETELY outside of China, to be honest.
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Old November 8th, 2013, 11:10 AM   #1623
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more pictures of the MTR trains







by 高铁见闻
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Old November 8th, 2013, 02:23 PM   #1624
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Would those be used only between Hong Kong and Shenzhen/Guangzhou? Would there be any direct Services between Hong Kong and Beijing?

The color scheme looks very playful for a train but I like it.
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Old November 8th, 2013, 02:46 PM   #1625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Would those be used only between Hong Kong and Shenzhen/Guangzhou?
Yes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by railjournal
The new trains will be used on high-speed shuttle services to Shenzhen and Guangzhou, which will require a total of 18 trains. MTR will operate the shuttles in a joint venture with a Chinese partner, which will provide the remaining nine trains. Long-distance services on the 142km ERL will be operated by MOR.
So the long distance trains will exist - and use different trains
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Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Would there be any direct Services between Hong Kong and Beijing?
Not directly stated.
There are direct services between Longhua and Beijing now - but only 1 daily. 2 other daily trains travel Beijing-Guangzhou but end there. Also there is 1 direct service Taiyuan-Guangzhou, but it ends there so no train is direct Taiyuan-Longhua.

It is possible that when Longhua-Futian-Hong Kong railway opens, the direct train/s from Beijing still end at Longhua or go to Futian but not to Hong Kong, and direct trains from Hong Kong that do go long distance past Guangzhou go only to Changsha or Wuhan, but not to Beijing. It is possible, but is that the plan?
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Old November 8th, 2013, 11:08 PM   #1626
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Are there future plans to run the Hong Kong section of the high speed railway faster than 200km/h? Too bad it's designed to run slower but maybe the section is too short to make much of a difference.
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Old November 8th, 2013, 11:35 PM   #1627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
Are there future plans to run the Hong Kong section of the high speed railway faster than 200km/h? Too bad it's designed to run slower but maybe the section is too short to make much of a difference.
Hong Kong section is 36km long. Hypothetically if you would run a train on the entire route at an average speed (which would never happen in reality) of 200km/h vs. 350km/h the time it would take would be the following:

200km/h: 10min. 48sec.
350km/h: 6min. 10 sec.

So essentially we would be talking about 10 minutes vs 6 minutes. Not very much of a difference, right?

However we all understand that this is just a hypothetical average speed which would never happen in real life.

Realistic average speed and corresponding trip times could be the following

~135-145km/h (on a 200km/h line) ~ 15-16min.
~150km/h (on a 350km/h line) ~ 14min.

My calculations are approximate and only based on comparable average speeds on other railway lines in China where trains go at 300 or 200km/h. However it gives some idea about possible trip times.
So the actual trip time would essentially be same whether it would be a 350km/h or a 200km/h line. This is simply because the distance is too short to take any advantage of 350km/h. Especially keeping in mind that the rolling stock would be identical i.e. a CRH/MTR-380 train. Very likely it would simply not even be able reach 300km/h on such a short stretch.

Therefore it makes absolutely no sense to build anything faster than a 200km/h line. In fact they could have built a 160km/h line and it would still not make very much of a difference.
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Old November 9th, 2013, 02:43 AM   #1628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Not directly stated.
There are direct services between Longhua and Beijing now - but only 1 daily. 2 other daily trains travel Beijing-Guangzhou but end there. Also there is 1 direct service Taiyuan-Guangzhou, but it ends there so no train is direct Taiyuan-Longhua.

It is possible that when Longhua-Futian-Hong Kong railway opens, the direct train/s from Beijing still end at Longhua or go to Futian but not to Hong Kong, and direct trains from Hong Kong that do go long distance past Guangzhou go only to Changsha or Wuhan, but not to Beijing. It is possible, but is that the plan?
The MTR website says service from the Kowloon Station will consist of the MTR run shuttles, and ALSO the mainland CRH services which would provide direct links to say, Beijing and Shanghai, among other places.
http://www.expressraillink.hk/en/tic...guangdong.html
Quote:
The section from Guangzhou South to Shenzhen North and the section between Shenzhen North to Futian is scheduled to open by the period between 2010 and 2012. Upon the opening of the Express Rail Link, passengers from Hong Kong will reach various Mainland cities without changing trains. The journey times between Hong Kong and the Mainland by train will be greatly shortened.
http://www.expressraillink.hk/en/tic...assengers.html
Quote:
The Express Rail Link's design allows for a frequency of one train every three minutes.

In 2016, the first year after completion, it is estimated that there will be 99,000 passengers per day travelling between Hong Kong and the Mainland by the Express Rail Link. The number includes about 18,600 passengers travelling to Humen and Guangzhou, including business travelers visiting their businesses and attending meetings in the two cities, and passengers who will interchange to the Pearl River Delta area or other major cities in the Mainland.

Last edited by Fan Railer; November 10th, 2013 at 07:37 AM. Reason: removing colon, lol
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Old November 9th, 2013, 09:50 AM   #1629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fan Railer View Post
The MTR website says service from the Kowloon Station will consist of the MTR run shuttles, and ALSO the mainland CRH services which would provide direct links to say, Beijing and Shanghai, among other places.
http://www.expressraillink.hk/en/tic...uangdong.html:
This link is broken, because of the colon in the end. Working link is:

http://www.expressraillink.hk/en/tic...guangdong.html

16 named destinations, expressly including Beijing and Shanghai. 33 daily trains...
Shall there be any other destinations, or shall the direct trains to and from Hong Kong be required to run nonstop between these 16 due to lack of customs at, say, Shijiazhuang, Hefei, Wenzhou or Ningbo stations?
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Old November 9th, 2013, 10:44 PM   #1630
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Long Haul Service 15,000 passengers
The Express Rail Link will operate at high frequency and speed:
There will be 33 daily pairs of long-haul train to 16 major Mainland cities.

My arithmetic might be shonky, but I see a rather light loading of 227 pax per train ...
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Old November 10th, 2013, 07:39 AM   #1631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xinxingren View Post
Long Haul Service 15,000 passengers
The Express Rail Link will operate at high frequency and speed:
There will be 33 daily pairs of long-haul train to 16 major Mainland cities.

My arithmetic might be shonky, but I see a rather light loading of 227 pax per train ...
Considering the average capacity of an 8 car train is 450-600 or so people, 227 per train leaving from Kowloon isn't too bad. I mean, it's not like you're going to want any room to pick up other paying passengers down the line...
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Old November 10th, 2013, 09:07 AM   #1632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fan Railer View Post
Considering the average capacity of an 8 car train is 450-600 or so people, 227 per train leaving from Kowloon isn't too bad. I mean, it's not like you're going to want any room to pick up other paying passengers down the line...
That depends exactly on border crossing!
If all passengers cross the border into China at Kowloon West station, then they are already in China, so no objection to stopping anywhere in China and picking up passengers.
If, however, the passengers stay in Hong Kong until they pass Chinese border in Chongqing, Kunming etc. stations then obviously they can get only out - getting on would mean crossing the border twice.
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Old November 10th, 2013, 03:03 PM   #1633
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CRH 6F









by 铁路小亨
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Old November 10th, 2013, 07:57 PM   #1634
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Which CRH6 version is 200km/h (or 250km/h)?
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Old November 11th, 2013, 04:11 AM   #1635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post

Which CRH6 version is 200km/h (or 250km/h)?
According to this: https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%92...BD%A6%E7%BB%84

it is the CRH6A.
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Old November 11th, 2013, 04:31 AM   #1636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fan Railer View Post
According to this: https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%92...BD%A6%E7%BB%84

it is the CRH6A.
Got it. They are seemingly visually identical which kinda confused me.
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Old November 11th, 2013, 04:36 AM   #1637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Hong Kong section is 36km long. Hypothetically if you would run a train on the entire route at an average speed (which would never happen in reality) of 200km/h vs. 350km/h the time it would take would be the following:

200km/h: 10min. 48sec.
350km/h: 6min. 10 sec.

So essentially we would be talking about 10 minutes vs 6 minutes. Not very much of a difference, right?

However we all understand that this is just a hypothetical average speed which would never happen in real life.

Realistic average speed and corresponding trip times could be the following

~135-145km/h (on a 200km/h line) ~ 15-16min.
~150km/h (on a 350km/h line) ~ 14min.

My calculations are approximate and only based on comparable average speeds on other railway lines in China where trains go at 300 or 200km/h. However it gives some idea about possible trip times.
So the actual trip time would essentially be same whether it would be a 350km/h or a 200km/h line. This is simply because the distance is too short to take any advantage of 350km/h. Especially keeping in mind that the rolling stock would be identical i.e. a CRH/MTR-380 train. Very likely it would simply not even be able reach 300km/h on such a short stretch.

Therefore it makes absolutely no sense to build anything faster than a 200km/h line. In fact they could have built a 160km/h line and it would still not make very much of a difference.
Thanks for this post and the calculations. This "short" line will do wonders for getting to Shenzhen quickly. Taking the metro to Futian checkpoint takes much longer than 14 min.
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Old November 11th, 2013, 04:45 AM   #1638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
Thanks for this post and the calculations. This "short" line will do wonders for getting to Shenzhen quickly. Taking the metro to Futian checkpoint takes much longer than 14 min.
Yes, if I remember correctly it takes well over 30 minutes from Hung Hom to Lo Wu (should be same to Lok Ma Chau). If they'll be using MTR380 trains to run to Shenzhen it will be essentially world's fanciest short-distance commuter trainsets.
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Old November 11th, 2013, 04:55 AM   #1639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Got it. They are seemingly visually identical which kinda confused me.
Yea. The one that seems to stand out is the CRH6S.
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Old November 11th, 2013, 05:04 AM   #1640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
If they'll be using MTR380 trains to run to Shenzhen it will be essentially world's fanciest short-distance commuter trainsets.
That's exactly what I was thinking.
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