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Old June 30th, 2007, 01:10 AM   #101
b4mmy
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Just got home from this at the Apollo! The Berlin album in its entirety. Splendid.

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Old June 30th, 2007, 01:18 AM   #102
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Thats you in ten years time if you are not careful 'I'm waiting for my b4m'
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Old June 30th, 2007, 01:30 AM   #103
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I am curious as to how Mr Reed got the crying children sound effects to accompany the song "The Kids". Did he get any people in the audience to start crying?

Intrigued about this whole Manc Int Fest thingy - but two snags:

1) I am bone skinter than skint (minus 35 quid a week income - work that one out) and have absolutely zero dosh to splash out on any event so can only do the free events - as expected.

2) I am currently working - as an unpaid volunteer in some cases - in about five different areas: helping out at The Manchester Museum every Thursday; doing Folk Trains and Folk sessions / festivals (hosting them and playing on them) in alternation practically every week; doing spoken word / rhyming verse every Tuesday at Stockport Crown / Saturday at the Armoury and every Thursday at Chorlton Cricket Club - whenever the schedule allows for gaps that is; helping out at two canal festivals this coming weekend and next weekend in Marple and Ashton respectively; attending various other street theatre and outdoor events (e.g. X-Trax, MIA) that are taking place between now and the end of August....


....which leaves me very little time to do anything with the Manchester International Festival, all told. Ironically, I was thinking about offering to volunteer as one of the front of house stewards a couple of months ago, but decided that I had enough on my plate as it stands.
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Old June 30th, 2007, 02:20 AM   #104
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Martin, do you know about the Not the manchester international festival yet? All kinds of free and unofficial stuff to get involved with whilst in festival time:

http://www.notmanchesterinternationalfestival.co.uk/
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Old June 30th, 2007, 06:02 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b4mmy View Post


Just got home from this at the Apollo! The Berlin album in its entirety. Splendid.

....and the colored girls all go: "doo-d'doo-d'doo-d'doo-doo.....
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Old June 30th, 2007, 09:58 AM   #106
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Newsnight Review live from M/cr tonight - should be available online. Pretty positive about the festival, lauding the audacity of putting on such a festival up north (although mainly Lancy types doing so to be fair).

T'was attributed to politics during discussion, and compared favourably with Liverpool (by inference L/pool can't do politics, and is struggling with the City of Culture issue). Not sure I was impressed with their implication, but without a doubt the view was that the festival was a major stride forward culturally speaking for Manchester.

I want to make clear there is no L/pool bashing intended in this post - I sincerely hope the CoC is a great success, and I will do my best to visit and support it. Liverpool is a great city. But I wonder why this seems to be the media consensus: that the MIF is going to exceed the COC. Is the claim of media bias correct, or is it just the case that the M/cr brand and/or marketing is that much stronger?
Well, with 2 of your 3 paragraphs critical of Liverpool you could have fooled me.

Why all this comparison stuff, ECoC vs MIF? Surely the BBC should do separate programmes for each event, both of which are unique in their own right.
Anyway I think you should restrict your comments to this thread's subject matter and if you have comments on ECoC, or any other topic, make them in the appropriate place.
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Old June 30th, 2007, 12:50 PM   #107
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Don't be an idiot. He wasn't criticising Liverpool.

He was just reporting what Mianda Sawyer said on Newsnight Review. She was answering Kirstie Wark's question as to whether MIF would be able to provide such a well funded and exciting programme in years to come or whether funding would dry up. What she said was that due to Manchester's relative political stability it had proved itself able to guarentee funding for varying artistic and cultural events in a way that Liverpool (as an example of a similar sized similar situation city) was proving to have more trouble doing.

There does seem to be this unshiftable meme in the London media psyche that Liverpool is incapable of getting anything right and I hope that a successful CoC will do somethingto shift it. However it isn't anti-Liverpool to report that the attitude exists.
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Old June 30th, 2007, 02:27 PM   #108
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Very very odd coverage by newsnight. Here we have a city with some of the most intense deprivation of any town in England, that receives tens of millions of pounds of money for its deprived areas each year because it scores so highly on the Index of Mutiple Deprivation. Here we have a town that is tragically scarred as well as scared by gun crime, with children killing other children, as indeed also happens in London but not in most English towns. And yet here also we have public funds used for an arts festival that makes no serious effort at all to really reach out to the deprived and neglected communities of Manchester and involve them or reflect their own cultural aspirations and talents.

What does the national broadcaster do? They keep entirely silent, and simply promote the festival as if they were providing free advertising. The same national broadcaster who hover around the Capital of Culture arrangements only ever running pieces that are critical. And of course, when you try to run a festival that will genuinely involve and reflect a city, that is bloody hard, and is bound to generate criticism.

I don't think the BBC did anyone any favours last night, and that the Editor of Newsnight should now be sacked. It reflected unacceptably low journalistic standards - not to mention double standards - to ignore all the criticism and simply do a puff piece for Manchester and its desire to project an image of being cultured. We know what this festival is for and about -it's about economic rather than cultural development, and yet they lack the objectivity or journalistic honesty to even look at such issues.

That said, I hope the festival can mature over the years into one that will help bring hope and light to the depressed communities who struggle to live only a few miles away from the glitz and glamour of opening nights. They are the real Mancunians, and they deserve to have a voice.
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Old June 30th, 2007, 02:42 PM   #109
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When next years Capital of Culture starts would you like the media to report on the gun crime and racist attcks that have occured in Liverpool in the past ?? No i thought not .
Poli , you are one of the most vile bitter people ive ever come across from Liverpool ,, take the bloody chip off you shoulder .
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Old June 30th, 2007, 02:47 PM   #110
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The whole Manchester International Festival is in my opinion very very poorly marketed. Not to say that the venues aren't filled, I mean in terms of public awareness and focus. There is a website sure, but the media coverage, the sponsorship and any feeling of branding, cohesiveness and spirit are completely anonymous. Cities like Liverpool and London do a much better job of bringing festivals into communities, so why can't Manchester... shouldn't this have been a job for Marketing Manchester, and its ahem god-like creative 'director'? This should be on Saville's list of golden marketing opportunities surely?

Anyway, this Lou Reed thing that I went to last night was a massive, major, cultural event. For anyone interested in the history of music, it quite possibly stands alongside Frank Sinatra singing on his last My Way tour. To have Berlin performed in its entirety, and never again btw, is an event that should have been promoted by The Manchester Festival as a massive feather in its cap...

If Liverpool feels that the BBC has overlooked it, I think we can safely say that in this case the BBC has betrayed Manchester.
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Old June 30th, 2007, 02:48 PM   #111
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More veiled anti-manchester vitriol from politan, any surprise?
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Old June 30th, 2007, 02:52 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Reid View Post
More veiled anti-manchester vitriol from politan, any surprise?
He has a point, admittedly to some ssc ears it sounds jaundiced... but I feel much the same way about the way the festival has been promoted and utilised. I think this is another wasted year, and I hope the Festival Committee/Marketing Manchester/media gets all its shit together for next year. I'd hate to see this snowball start to melt...
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Old June 30th, 2007, 02:57 PM   #113
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Poli - There has been little or no positive reportage of Liverpool CoC is because until it actually happens there is little positive to report. That's not to say it won't be a great success, but it's very difficult to portray the great successes it may produce before they occur. By contrast it is very easy to report the bad things surrounding it because the difficulties in organising massive events begin as soon as the bid is submitted. I imagine it'll be the same with the Olympics. Everyone is slagging them off now, but when they happen it'll be "Oh how great, they've regenerated Stratford, encouraged innner city sport and single handedly saved the UK from terrorism and global warming in some unspecified way that is in no way merely hyperbole". The news can only report what has happened when it does.

On your point about the festival not being 'of Manchester' you make a valid point, but ignore the crucial one. It isn't supposed to be. It is the Manchester INTERNATIONAL festival. It is to introduce global artists to Manchester and Manchester to global artists, not to promote kids choirs from Gorton. There are arguments to be made that by forcing Manchester into the artistic world the MIF may be extending the oppurtunities to currently culturally excluded Mancunians, but that is not its primary purpose, which is to encourage the creative and tourist industries of Manchester by putting on a bloody big show for the many Mancunians who aren't gun totting street urchins you imagine us all to be.

I'm not quite sure how you would like a BBC arts show to do an intensive critique of local council development and regeration policy because it is clearly outside their remit. Let arts shows report the art, and news shows investigate the politics.
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Old June 30th, 2007, 02:58 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Miles Platting View Post
....and the colored girls all go: "doo-d'doo-d'doo-d'doo-doo.....
They certainly do on Transformer but not on Berlin!

Can someone explain to me the artistic merit of performing Berlin as a piece? What's exactly new/innovative about an album that came out over 30 years ago? What next David Bowie's Hunky Dory or The Man Who Sold The World?
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Old June 30th, 2007, 03:01 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by b4mmy View Post

Anyway, this Lou Reed thing that I went to last night was a massive, major, cultural event. For anyone interested in the history of music, it quite possibly stands alongside Frank Sinatra singing on his last My Way tour. To have Berlin performed in its entirety, and never again btw, is an event that should have been promoted by The Manchester Festival as a massive feather in its cap...

.
I've seen Lou perform a few times (most recently lasy year). The reality is that the crowd always wants to hear Velvet Underground material. What does Lou normally give us? Songs from the friggin Raven. I guess Berlin was an improvement on that.
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Old June 30th, 2007, 03:03 PM   #116
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When next years Capital of Culture starts would you like the media to report on the gun crime and racist attcks that have occured in Liverpool in the past ?? No i thought not.
:
No, but they will, and a lot of that negative coverage will come from Manchester based journalists working for the BBC and other organisations. That is the pattern. It is not something a programme of Newsnight's stature should be caught up in, hence my argument for the Editor to resign.
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Old June 30th, 2007, 03:05 PM   #117
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Let arts shows report the art, and news shows investigate the politics.
Art is politics, and this "cultural" festival is a glorified bit of economic development work to attract visitors and jobs. The city was not forced to ignore its own people - especially the deprived communities - when desgining and setting up this festival. It chose to ignore them. It's as though there are two Manchester's: the city centre and the rest. The city leaders should be challenged on this by objective journalists - instead of programmes like Newsnight simply promoting it.
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Old June 30th, 2007, 03:10 PM   #118
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Poli - There has been little or no positive reportage of Liverpool CoC is because until it actually happens there is little positive to report.
Or rather, they choose to ignore the positives and focus on the negatives. Liverpool does not have a media presence, so has to rely on Manchester and london for unbiased reporting. Ha!
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Old June 30th, 2007, 03:10 PM   #119
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They certainly do on Transformer but not on Berlin!

Can someone explain to me the artistic merit of performing Berlin as a piece? What's exactly new/innovative about an album that came out over 30 years ago? What next David Bowie's Hunky Dory or The Man Who Sold The World?
Wild Side was an encore piece and it was utterly brilliant btw.

Berlin was a seminal album of the time, inspired by a seminal place at that time. Many underground artists were in Berlin in those few years, and a great deal of 70's sub-culture came from those artists, many of whom went on to become globally important artists. This album in particular became a cultural cornerstone revolving around depression, and was to many a crucial shift in the way that concept albums could be written. It is referred to as an inspiration by many.

The reason this performance is important is that Reed and his team intended to create a stage show based on the album at the time of its release, but the relative commercial failure of the album meant that the wider public never saw this performed as Reed visualised it. So now, many years later Reed has become a legend, and he has brought it to us. Personally I'm grateful, and feel very privileged to have been there.
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Old June 30th, 2007, 03:11 PM   #120
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More veiled anti-manchester vitriol from politan, any surprise?
So you don't care that the city is spending millions of public money on elite arts as an economic development / promotion instrument, instead of investing in culture and arts for the tens of thousands of very poor people who live in the deprived areas of Manchester? The poor were completely invisible last night, as though the city is ashamed of them. It's the kind of thing Brazilian cities do, not British ones. Manchester contains an unusually high number of very poor people, which is why it gets so much regeneration funding (you were happy to acknowledge this when it qualified you for the super casino), and yet its arts and culture strategy largely ignores them. The city tried to use Neighbourhood Renewal Funds, which they said were for "culture", on subsidising new hotels, for Gods sake - although I gather they were challenged on that. The justification? That elite city centre culture would bring in visitors and people in deprived areas could find work in the hotels. Great - arts for middle class people from fifty or a hundred miles away, and locals can clean the toilets afterwards. That is the reailty of the current regime in Manchester - they may be very good at economic development, but their values and ability to build a cultured and contented city are very poor indeed.

That is the choice of the city, but an independent national media organisation should at least ask questions. This is the organisation that arrives in Lime Street, gets a cab to Toxteth to a community centre, and then cherry-picks quotations from poor peope who feel excluded from the City of Culture preparations. Such double standards are completely unacceptable.
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