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Old March 11th, 2010, 03:02 PM   #2921
EricIsHim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladisimo View Post
The route maps on the KMB bus are actually quite clear, always on the lower floor just past the driver, but you don't always know what station you got on at, and the bus driver doesn't always update the next stop...
Technology has improving. There are three ways to do it...
Manually changed by the driver is one way, cheapest, easiest to install, but least accurate and more works for the driver besides driving.
By mileage, and odometer tracks the distance traveled from the starting point and changes the announcement automatically as the bus goes.
By GPS, this is where everyone going with these days. The system just changes the announcement at certain location, very simple. I suppose there is a build in odometer as well to compensate the loss of satellite signal in urban canyon, under bridges and tunnels, too.

So things are going to get better with less human error in it.

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Originally Posted by gladisimo View Post
You know what's more annoying is that during peak hours, you get all these people who try to run for it, and inevitably gets clamped by the door, then the doors get stuck for moment, all open up, then the announcement repeats (please stand back from the door, in all three languages, plus the obligatory beep beep beep x9)

And sometimes, because people are just selfish and stupid like that, and can't wait the extra 30 seconds for the next train to come, and should know that in the extra minute it took for them to cram themselves into the crowded train, it could've left and the second one could've come...

the whole process repeats 2-3 times! The worst I've seen we actually got stuck for 90 extra seconds while the doors tried to close 5 times! And with all those announcements, all the while moving nowhere.
The worse is, the incident happens at one of carriages on the train, but not yours. You have no idea what is going on, but just think it's stupid the doors just keep open-and-close for no reason. Some people would get so scared and thought the train isn't working right.

And one train is stuck at one station has a ripple effect on every other train behind it. A delay of 90 sec, is a mis-schedule of many other trains since we run train at 90 sec interval.
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Old March 12th, 2010, 01:59 AM   #2922
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Originally Posted by gladisimo View Post
You know what's more annoying is that during peak hours, you get all these people who try to run for it, and inevitably gets clamped by the door, then the doors get stuck for moment, all open up, then the announcement repeats (please stand back from the door, in all three languages, plus the obligatory beep beep beep x9)
Wow, really? Isn't there a way for the driver to override the announcement and go straight to the door chimes? This would make more sense instead of repeating...

And yeah, in NYC you might occasionally find someone holding the doors for 30sec. If the conductor is nice, he might open the doors all the way before re-closing them. But usually it's the passenger's selfishness, so they rapidly open and close the doors so as to tell the passenger to get the f out and make them feel bad.

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And one train is stuck at one station has a ripple effect on every other train behind it. A delay of 90 sec, is a mis-schedule of many other trains since we run train at 90 sec interval.
That's the bad apart about having trains running so frequent (I am jealous of course). Closest thing here would be on the downtown 6 line during AM rush hour. Sometimes trains are forced to skip a station or two if trains are too close together due to delays.
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Old March 12th, 2010, 08:12 AM   #2923
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Lawmakers rail at MTR refusal to rule out a rise in fares
The Standard
Wednesday, March 10, 2010

Commuters may have to fork out more to ride on the MTR after the corporation refused to rule out a fares rise yesterday.

MTR Corp (0066) said it will decide in an annual review in June, sparking criticism from lawmakers who oppose any hike.

Company bosses say fares will be reviewed under the Fare Adjustment Mechanism which is based on the consumer price index and wage index of transport services.

Inflation in 2009 was 1.3 percent, but only half - 0.65 percent - will be applied, as growth in CPI and the wage index account for 50 percent of the adjustment rate, respectively.

"I dare not predict whether the change in transport wage index for the whole industry will be positive or negative. We'll wait for the government statistics before decide on any adjustment," MTR Corp chief executive Chow Chung-kong said.

He said MTR wages went up 0.8 percent on average, but had no information if other transport services like taxis had pay rises too.

Rail fares will be adjusted only if the overall adjustment rate reaches a trigger point of 1.5 percent, and last year's adjustment rate of 0.7 percent will be carried over to this year's review, Chow said.

Meanwhile, Democratic Party legislator Wong Sing-chi attacked any attempt to raise fares, saying no excuse justified such a move.

He said more than 1,000 cross- boundary commuters from New Territories East seldom enjoy fare discounts, and he would rally residents against any fare rise.

Legislator Leung Yiu-chung, who represents New Territories West, said increasing MTR fares may lead to inflation.

"MTRC has gained lots of profit over the past years. There is no reason to increase the fares," he said.

Leung stressed it would be "unfair" to long-distance commuters and the working class. "How can they bear a heavier burden for living and daily transportation?" he asked.
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Old March 12th, 2010, 04:03 PM   #2924
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricIsHim View Post
Technology has improving. There are three ways to do it...
Manually changed by the driver is one way, cheapest, easiest to install, but least accurate and more works for the driver besides driving.
By mileage, and odometer tracks the distance traveled from the starting point and changes the announcement automatically as the bus goes.
By GPS, this is where everyone going with these days. The system just changes the announcement at certain location, very simple. I suppose there is a build in odometer as well to compensate the loss of satellite signal in urban canyon, under bridges and tunnels, too.

So things are going to get better with less human error in it.
GPS is a good idea, but with the turnover rate of KMB, I don't know how long it'll take for that to be implemented. I think odometer is possible, but may be flawed, since we can have stops every 500 meters or so, if the odometer is just a simple program, the errors from changing lanes, etc... can quickly mount.

I think GPS has the ability to continue extrapolating your course for 30 sec or so if the signal is lost, it's what my GPS does.

Quote:
The worse is, the incident happens at one of carriages on the train, but not yours. You have no idea what is going on, but just think it's stupid the doors just keep open-and-close for no reason. Some people would get so scared and thought the train isn't working right.

And one train is stuck at one station has a ripple effect on every other train behind it. A delay of 90 sec, is a mis-schedule of many other trains since we run train at 90 sec interval.
You get used to the doors opening and closing if you're a local, it's just an annoyance.

But of course, like you say the schedule is so dense at peak hours that I find it ironic people try to jam into the trains, resulting in delays, and ironically, if they hadn't tried to force themselves in, the next train might've been there already.
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Old March 22nd, 2010, 05:44 AM   #2925
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Old March 25th, 2010, 01:29 PM   #2926
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Can't believe it's more expensive than Tung Chung - Lok Ma Chau.
Well... the actual journey trip by MTR is quite a long ride... even though the origin and destination are only a few km away.
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Old March 25th, 2010, 06:00 PM   #2927
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MTR Corp: To Raise Average HK Train Fares 2.05% This Year
25 March 2010

HONG KONG (Dow Jones)--MTR Corp. (0066.HK), Hong Kong's sole railway operator, said Thursday it plans to raise average train fares by 2.05% this year, in the government-controlled company's first fare increase in 13 years.

The blue-chip company follows a rigid fare adjustment mechanism, which is linked to consumer price data, when determining fare changes.

MTRC, which is 77%-owned by the Hong Kong government, adopted the mechanism as a condition set by the government of its merger with commuter and intercity rail operator Kowloon Canton Railway Corp. in 2007.

The rail operator said the average single journey fare of HK$7.20 will rise by HK$0.15 per journey, though specific fare increases on various routes haven't been determined.

MTRC last hiked fares in 1997, the company said.

MTRC had a 42.6% share of Hong Kong's transportation market in 2009.
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Old March 25th, 2010, 06:46 PM   #2928
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So the politicians should hunt down MTR Corp. when the mechanism shows the fare should be reduced.

Seriously, I bet 95% of the people don't even know exactly how much they are paying to ride each trip with the Octopus card, just "dud," and go.

P.S.
Just went through this:
http://www.mtr.com.hk/chi/whatsnew/i...re_day0908.pdf
The most expensive non-AE, non-Octopus ride costs $49, from Yuen Long to Lok Ma Chau.
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Old March 25th, 2010, 08:12 PM   #2929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricIsHim View Post
So the politicians should hunt down MTR Corp. when the mechanism shows the fare should be reduced.

Seriously, I bet 95% of the people don't even know exactly how much they are paying to ride each trip with the Octopus card, just "dud," and go.

P.S.
Just went through this:
http://www.mtr.com.hk/chi/whatsnew/i...re_day0908.pdf
The most expensive non-AE, non-Octopus ride costs $49, from Yuen Long to Lok Ma Chau.
Can't believe it's more expensive than Tung Chung - Lok Ma Chau.
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Old March 28th, 2010, 05:35 AM   #2930
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MTR fares up 15 cents
The Standard
Friday, March 26, 2010

An estimated four million passengers will have to pay an average of 15 cents a trip more from June 1.

MTR marketing and station business general manager Jeny Yeung Mei-chun said the 2.05 percent hike - forecast by The Standard yesterday - is the result of the fare adjustment mechanism, as agreed with the government.

"The mechanism is legally binding," Yeung said. "It is linked to the consumer price index and transport wage index so the result is objective, fair and transparent."

She said it will be the first increase in MTR fares for 13 years.

As the average fare is HK$7.20 per trip, the increase will be around 15 cents a journey.

But Yeung added the rise will only be implemented after a third party audits the result of the mechanism.

The Census and Statistics Department announced yesterday the nominal wage change in the transport sector in the fourth quarter of last year was 1.4 percent - a figure that was used to calculate the new fare.

According to the latest wage index, bus companies may also apply for a fare increase of 1.25 percent but KMB, Citybus and First Bus said they have no plans to do so.

Democratic Party legislator Andrew Cheng Kar-foo said the public must not accept a fare rise - no matter how small - when the company is making a huge profit. He also suggested the government set up a fund from MTRC share dividends to stabilize fares.

A spokeswoman for the Transport and Housing Bureau said the adjustment mechanism has taken into consideration how much the public can afford.

"We will continue to encourage every public transport operator, including the rail company, to provide concessions to the public," she said.

University of Science and Technology economics professor Francis Lui Ting-ming said it is reasonable for the MTRC to increase fares.

"You cannot say only accept a fall and not a rise," he said. "There is no free lunch in this world."

But Cheng, vice chairman of the Legislative Council's transport panel, criticized MTR Corp for making the move even though it has turned in a profit of HK$77.2 billion over the past 10 years and HK$9.6 billion last year.

Coalition to Monitor Public Transport and Utilities spokesman Richard Tsoi Yiu-cheong said the formula ignores important factors such as MTRC profits and changes in wages among the general public.

"If you consider the wages of the general public you cannot agree with a fare increase," Tsoi said.

"If you dig deeper into the MTRC profits, you will never agree with it."
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Old March 28th, 2010, 10:40 PM   #2931
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A fare increase of 15 HK cents after 13 years?!

And there are complaints? HKers are spoiled.
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Old March 29th, 2010, 01:25 PM   #2932
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Yes - considering fares did drop when the MTR and KCR merged.
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Old March 30th, 2010, 01:04 AM   #2933
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For those who live in HK:

I always wanted to understand the commuting patterns in East Rail Line. I mean, it links Kowloon and many new towns in NT, but it does not connect them directly to HK Island. Is it very common for people to make the two transfers at Kowloon Tong and Mong Kok? Or does downton Kowloon absorbs well the huge number of people coming from the northern suburbs?

This is something I think it's missing in HK system. It has a lot of lines, but its network effect is not so great. For instance, if you want to go from Causeway Bay to Lo Wu you have to make 3 transfers! Of course, if some projects become reality (like the North Island Line, Shatin-Central Link and the recently built Kowloon Southern Link) the situation will get A LOT better. By the way, how's the North Island Line project doing? Is it still alive?
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Old March 30th, 2010, 02:41 AM   #2934
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A fare increase of 15 HK cents after 13 years?!

And there are complaints? HKers are spoiled.
Jeeze...that comes down to less than $0.02USD and an average fare of <$1USD. No wonder mass transit is the lifeblood of HK. It's low compared to other cities, but I guess since a lot of things in HK are inexpensive (other than housing), it's probably about right.
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Old March 30th, 2010, 04:38 AM   #2935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martini87 View Post
For those who live in HK:

I always wanted to understand the commuting patterns in East Rail Line. I mean, it links Kowloon and many new towns in NT, but it does not connect them directly to HK Island. Is it very common for people to make the two transfers at Kowloon Tong and Mong Kok? Or does downton Kowloon absorbs well the huge number of people coming from the northern suburbs?

This is something I think it's missing in HK system. It has a lot of lines, but its network effect is not so great. For instance, if you want to go from Causeway Bay to Lo Wu you have to make 3 transfers! Of course, if some projects become reality (like the North Island Line, Shatin-Central Link and the recently built Kowloon Southern Link) the situation will get A LOT better. By the way, how's the North Island Line project doing? Is it still alive?
The East Rail was originally built as a freight line to connect HK and Canton (Guangzhou) in the late 1890s with HK terminus in Tsim Sha Tsui. (Hints: KCRC, Kowloon-Canton Railway Corp.) It was then upgraded to become a freight and commuter lines in 1980s as part of the new town developments. Those who wish to cross the harbour were planned to transfer either to MTR at Kowloon Tong, or to buses at Hung Ham with the Cross Harbour Tunnel. Thus not all people live in the NT East work across the harbour, but in Kowloon as well.

And don't forget, the rail system was operated by TWO companies before the they merged in 2007.
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Old March 30th, 2010, 04:43 AM   #2936
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Jeeze...that comes down to less than $0.02USD and an average fare of <$1USD. No wonder mass transit is the lifeblood of HK. It's low compared to other cities, but I guess since a lot of things in HK are inexpensive (other than housing), it's probably about right.

Yes, it's equivalent to $0.02....

I know with regards to the complaints that it's not the amount of increase, but the precendent that it sets that says it's okay to raise fares even if the MTR is raking in huge profits. But as a private corporation, profits are the main objective (even if it's mostly for filling government coffers).
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Last edited by Skybean; March 30th, 2010 at 04:48 AM.
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Old March 30th, 2010, 04:51 AM   #2937
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Yes, it's equivalent to $0.02....

I know with regards to the complaints that it's not the amount of increase, but the precendent that it sets that says it's okay to raise fares even if the MTR is raking in huge profits. But as a private corporation, profits are the main objective (even if it mostly for filling government coffers).
Well... but the majority of the people see MTR as a public transport operator like the TTA and MTA, and they are those who complain about any fare increase.
It is not just the MTR, people always complain about all other public service corporations raising its fee in HK, i.e. KMB, Citybus/NWFB, CLP, HK Electric, CLP, Town Gas etc. etc.
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Old April 1st, 2010, 04:04 AM   #2938
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Old April 1st, 2010, 06:08 AM   #2939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricIsHim View Post
The East Rail was originally built as a freight line to connect HK and Canton (Guangzhou) in the late 1890s with HK terminus in Tsim Sha Tsui. (Hints: KCRC, Kowloon-Canton Railway Corp.) It was then upgraded to become a freight and commuter lines in 1980s as part of the new town developments. Those who wish to cross the harbour were planned to transfer either to MTR at Kowloon Tong, or to buses at Hung Ham with the Cross Harbour Tunnel. Thus not all people live in the NT East work across the harbour, but in Kowloon as well.

And don't forget, the rail system was operated by TWO companies before the they merged in 2007.
Thanks
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Old April 1st, 2010, 01:37 PM   #2940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricIsHim View Post
Well... but the majority of the people see MTR as a public transport operator like the TTA and MTA, and they are those who complain about any fare increase.
It is not just the MTR, people always complain about all other public service corporations raising its fee in HK, i.e. KMB, Citybus/NWFB, CLP, HK Electric, CLP, Town Gas etc. etc.
to complain is human.

Martini87 there is a plan for a direct "Sha Tin to Central Link" that would take people from the Eastern New Territories to Central without any transfers.

And the extension of the KCR to Tsim Sha Tsui East made transfers from KCR to MTR quite a bit easier in Tsim Sha Tsui - way more comfortable and faster than the earlier transfer at Mong Kong or the Hung Hom to Tsim Sha Tsui walk

yet I recall that my girlfriend of the time used to prefer to take the bus directly from her housing estate all the way down to the bus interchange at the Kowloon Ferry Terminal.

That's the nice thing about HK - all the public transport options.

Cheers, m
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