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Old November 12th, 2012, 12:45 AM   #3241
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LCQ11: Study on the construction of the MTR Siu Sai Wan extension
Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Government Press Release

Following is a question by the Hon Christopher Chung and a written reply by the Secretary for Transport and Housing, Professor Anthony Cheung Bing-leung, in the Legislative Council today (November 7):

Question:

Regarding the aspiration of the residents of Hong Kong Island East for the MTR Corporation Limited (MTRCL) to construct an extension to Siu Sai Wan, will the Government inform this Council:

(a) whether the Government or MTRCL has conducted a feasibility study on construction of the Siu Sai Wan extension; if yes, of the details and findings, and if the findings of the study show that the feasibility is not high, whether the Government will consider constructing a smaller-scale railway system in Siu Sai Wan (e.g. the Light Rail system in Tuen Mun and Yuen Long, or the monorail system poised to be built in the Kai Tak Development Area) and linking the system to the existing stations on the MTR Island Line; if no study has been conducted, whether it will consider doing so;

(b) of the current population of Siu Sai Wan, as well as the respective figures of the projected population growth in the next five and ten years; and

(c) given that the Government published in April this year the first-stage public consultation document for the Review and Update of the Railway Development Strategy 2000, proposing to conduct a study on three regional railway corridors (namely the Hong Kong-Shenzhen Western Express Line, the Northern Link and the Coastal Railway between Tuen Mun and Tsuen Wan), when the Government will carry out the second-stage public consultation, and whether it will consider including the Siu Sai Wan extension as one of the items for study and discussion in that stage of public consultation?

Reply:

President,

My reply to the various parts of Hon Chung's question is as follows:

(a) The Government has conducted preliminary studies on the feasibility of connecting the Island Line (ISL) to Siu Sai Wan in the past, including an ISL extension from Chai Wan Station to Siu Sai Wan and an ISL bifurcation from Heng Fa Chuen Station to Siu Sai Wan. As Siu Sai Wan is a well developed community, space available for railway development is very limited. Both alignments would be in conflict with various existing buildings in the district, rendering it technically extremely difficult to connect the ISL to Siu Sai Wan.

The ISL is a heavy rail system with entirely different standards and specifications from those adopted by a light rail system or monorail system. Tracks, depot and other railway facilities for maintenance purposes etc. cannot be shared among these systems. If a light rail system or monorail system were constructed to connect Siu Sai Wan with an existing ISL station, additional land would be required to establish a depot and other maintenance facilities. These proposals are expected to result in a greater land requirement and higher community impact, thus are of lower feasibility.

(b) For town planning purpose, the whole territory of Hong Kong is currently divided into 289 Tertiary Planning Units (TPUs) by the Planning Department. Each of the TPU is identified by a unique three-digit number. Under this demarcation system, Siu Sai Wan is located in TPU 167.

According to the results of the 2011 Population Census conducted by the Census and Statistics Department, the population of TPU 167 as at June 2011 is 59,729.

With reference to the projected population figures published by the Planning Department in 2010, the projected population of TPU 167 for mid-2015 is 59,600. The department currently does not have any projected population figures beyond 2015, but is updating the projected population figures for 2015 and beyond based on the results of the 2011 Population Census.

(c) In March 2011, the Government commissioned consultants to conduct a study for the Review and Update of the Railway Development Strategy 2000, with a view to updating the long-term railway development blueprint of Hong Kong in the light of the latest development of the society. The study reviews the railway schemes identified in the Railway Development Strategy 2000 which are not yet implemented, as well as other railway proposals suggested by the Government or the public. The entire study is expected to be completed in mid-2013.

We conducted the Stage 1 public engagement exercise from April to July 2012 to consult the public on the proposals of three major regional railway corridors (viz. the Hong Kong-Shenzhen Western Express Line, the Northern Link, and the Coastal Railway between Tuen Mun and Tsuen Wan), and are planning to launch the Stage 2 public engagement exercise early next year to discuss proposals of local enhancement schemes. We will consider whether to include the Siu Sai Wan extension as an item for further discussion in the Stage 2 public engagement exercise in view of the study recommendations made by our consultants.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 06:26 PM   #3242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline
LCQ11: Study on the construction of the MTR Siu Sai Wan extension
Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Government Press Release

Following is a question by the Hon Christopher Chung and a written reply by the Secretary for Transport and Housing, Professor Anthony Cheung Bing-leung, in the Legislative Council today (November 7):

Question:

Regarding the aspiration of the residents of Hong Kong Island East for the MTR Corporation Limited (MTRCL) to construct an extension to Siu Sai Wan, will the Government inform this Council:

(a) whether the Government or MTRCL has conducted a feasibility study on construction of the Siu Sai Wan extension; if yes, of the details and findings, and if the findings of the study show that the feasibility is not high, whether the Government will consider constructing a smaller-scale railway system in Siu Sai Wan (e.g. the Light Rail system in Tuen Mun and Yuen Long, or the monorail system poised to be built in the Kai Tak Development Area) and linking the system to the existing stations on the MTR Island Line; if no study has been conducted, whether it will consider doing so;

(b) of the current population of Siu Sai Wan, as well as the respective figures of the projected population growth in the next five and ten years; and

(c) given that the Government published in April this year the first-stage public consultation document for the Review and Update of the Railway Development Strategy 2000, proposing to conduct a study on three regional railway corridors (namely the Hong Kong-Shenzhen Western Express Line, the Northern Link and the Coastal Railway between Tuen Mun and Tsuen Wan), when the Government will carry out the second-stage public consultation, and whether it will consider including the Siu Sai Wan extension as one of the items for study and discussion in that stage of public consultation?

Reply:

President,

My reply to the various parts of Hon Chung's question is as follows:

(a) The Government has conducted preliminary studies on the feasibility of connecting the Island Line (ISL) to Siu Sai Wan in the past, including an ISL extension from Chai Wan Station to Siu Sai Wan and an ISL bifurcation from Heng Fa Chuen Station to Siu Sai Wan. As Siu Sai Wan is a well developed community, space available for railway development is very limited. Both alignments would be in conflict with various existing buildings in the district, rendering it technically extremely difficult to connect the ISL to Siu Sai Wan.

The ISL is a heavy rail system with entirely different standards and specifications from those adopted by a light rail system or monorail system. Tracks, depot and other railway facilities for maintenance purposes etc. cannot be shared among these systems. If a light rail system or monorail system were constructed to connect Siu Sai Wan with an existing ISL station, additional land would be required to establish a depot and other maintenance facilities. These proposals are expected to result in a greater land requirement and higher community impact, thus are of lower feasibility.

(b) For town planning purpose, the whole territory of Hong Kong is currently divided into 289 Tertiary Planning Units (TPUs) by the Planning Department. Each of the TPU is identified by a unique three-digit number. Under this demarcation system, Siu Sai Wan is located in TPU 167.

According to the results of the 2011 Population Census conducted by the Census and Statistics Department, the population of TPU 167 as at June 2011 is 59,729.

With reference to the projected population figures published by the Planning Department in 2010, the projected population of TPU 167 for mid-2015 is 59,600. The department currently does not have any projected population figures beyond 2015, but is updating the projected population figures for 2015 and beyond based on the results of the 2011 Population Census.

(c) In March 2011, the Government commissioned consultants to conduct a study for the Review and Update of the Railway Development Strategy 2000, with a view to updating the long-term railway development blueprint of Hong Kong in the light of the latest development of the society. The study reviews the railway schemes identified in the Railway Development Strategy 2000 which are not yet implemented, as well as other railway proposals suggested by the Government or the public. The entire study is expected to be completed in mid-2013.

We conducted the Stage 1 public engagement exercise from April to July 2012 to consult the public on the proposals of three major regional railway corridors (viz. the Hong Kong-Shenzhen Western Express Line, the Northern Link, and the Coastal Railway between Tuen Mun and Tsuen Wan), and are planning to launch the Stage 2 public engagement exercise early next year to discuss proposals of local enhancement schemes. We will consider whether to include the Siu Sai Wan extension as an item for further discussion in the Stage 2 public engagement exercise in view of the study recommendations made by our consultants.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 02:57 AM   #3243
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LCQ10: MTR fare adjustment mechanism and fare concessions
Wednesday, October 31, 2012
Government Press Release

Following is a question by the Hon Tang Ka-piu and a written reply by the Secretary for Transport and Housing, Professor Anthony Cheung Bing-leung,in the Legislative Council today (October 31):

Question:

The Fare Adjustment Mechanism of the MTR Corporation Limited (MTRCL) has been in operation for four years since 2009. Except for the first year with freezing of fares, MTRCL increased its fares for the other three years despite making profits of more than $10 billion. The fare increase for this year was as high as 5.4%, the highest among all these years. Some members of the public have pointed out that MTRCL has tried to "make every possible gain" in making fare adjustment. Quite a number of members of the public have also reflected to me that the fare concessions and promotional schemes introduced by MTRCL (such as the monthly pass for the Tung Chung Line, the "Ride 10 Get 1 Free" scheme, etc. launched this year) have not brought real benefits to the public, and that the Government, being the major shareholder of MTRCL, should have "the final say" and "monitoring power" over MTRCL's annual application for fare increase. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(a) whether it knows as of date the respective numbers of people who have benefited as well as the total savings from the various concession schemes introduced by MTRCL in the past three years;

(b) whether it knows the weekly average numbers of Octopus cards, since the introduction of the "Ride 10 Get 1 Free" scheme by MTRCL this year, the holders of which took nine and eight MTR journeys respectively in a week (from Monday to Friday), and the respective percentages of such numbers in the total number of the Octopus cards sold; if such statistics are not available, of the reasons for that;

(c) of the annual dividends received by the Government from MTRCL in the past four years; how the Government disposed of the dividend income and details thereof;

(d) whether the government officials who are currently non-executive directors on MTRCL's Board of Directors have the power to veto fare adjustment proposals at the board meetings; if yes, whether they have exercised such power; if not, the reasons for that; and

(e) given that it has been reported that MTRCL undertook in May 2012 to introduce concessionary measures to give back to MTR passengers within one year the additional income of $670 million generated by fare increases, of the specific measures taken by the Government, as MTRCL's major shareholder, to ensure that MTRCL will honour this undertaking; how the Government will follow up the situation of MTRCL not honouring this undertaking?

Reply:

President,

My reply to various parts of the Hon Tang's question is as follows:

(a) Over the past three years, the major fare promotions and concessions offered by the MTR Corporation Limited (MTRCL), as well as the number of passengers benefitted and the amount involved, are set out at Annex 1.

(b) MTRCL launched the "Ride 10 Get 1 Free" promotion on June 18, 2012. The promotion period will last till December 30 this year. Passengers can enjoy this fare promotion by riding 10 journeys or more on MTR from Monday to Friday in the same week. Up to this moment, the weekly average number of passengers who can benefit from the "Ride 10 Get 1 Free" promotion amounts to some 870,000. The average number of Octopus card holders who take eight and nine journeys from Monday to Friday in a week are about 196,000 and 149,000 respectively.

(c) The details of dividends received by the Government from MTRCL annually in the past four years are set out at Annex 2.

Pursuant to section 3 of the Public Finance Ordinance (Cap. 2), the dividends that the Government receives from MTRCL form part of the Government's general revenue. The Government will give a holistic consideration on the utilisation of these dividends as well as other Government's revenue. These financial resources will be used on various public services and the community at large via appropriate deployment in response to different policies and priorities.

(d) During the merger of the two railway networks in December 2007, the Government and MTRCL signed the Operating Agreement (OA). The OA stipulates various matters including the construction and operation of railways, and the Fare Adjustment Mechanism (FAM) is also covered. Under the current FAM, the fare adjustment rate for the prevailing year is determined in accordance with a direct-drive formula linked to the year-on-year percentage changes in both the Composite Consumer Price Index and the Nominal Wage Index (Transportation Section) of the previous year, as well as a productivity factor. The OA is legally binding.

Currently, the Secretary for Transport and Housing, the Secretary for Financial Services and the Treasury, and the Commissioner for Transport are serving as the non-executive directors of the Board of MTRCL. Public officers reflect the community's views and requests on MTRCL's services and fares in the Board. During the discussion of the fare adjustment, the Government also urges MTRCL to take into account the overall macro-economic environment, and implement more and various effective fare concessions so as to address the needs of passengers and alleviate their burden of travelling expenses.

The Government is reviewing the FAM of MTRCL and conducting a public consultation exercise. We are actively examining whether and how new elements in addition to the data linked with the economic performance, wage index and productivity factor should be introduced in the FAM so as to reflect the operating costs, profit level, efficiency of operation and service performance of MTRCL as well as the affordability of general public, etc.. The review is expected to be completed by early 2013.

(e) While MTRCL published the adjusted fares on May 25, 2012, at the same time it also announced the offer of a new package of fare promotions to give back to passengers the value of the additional revenue it would receive in the year from the 2012 fare adjustment, bringing an overall savings in transport expenses of approximately $670 million to passengers.

According to MTRCL, the savings were calculated based on the Corporation's past experience in offering similar promotions. The actual savings would depend on the patronage figures and the participation level of passengers. MTRCL stated that it would not terminate the promotions prematurely even if the actual savings reach $670 million. If the actual savings are less than $670 million, the Government will urge MTRCL to consider extending certain promotions or introducing other promotions.

The Government will continue to monitor closely the implementation of the promotions. MTRCL will also regularly review the effectiveness of the fare promotions. Upon the completion of the fare promotions, MTRCL will submit to the Government the actual utilisation data of the promotions.
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Old November 20th, 2012, 05:14 AM   #3244
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MTR sees end of tunnel
The Standard
Tuesday, November 20, 2012

The construction of the HK$15 billion West Island Line has reached a milestone with the completion of a tunnel between Sheung Wan and Kennedy Town stations.

MTR Corp officials are optimistic the project will be completed as scheduled in 2014.

Project manager Brendan Reilly said the tough part was trying to reduce the dust and noise pollution in nearby commercial areas.

"The logistics involved in moving equipment underground for the construction of the tunnel was another challenge," Reilly said yesterday.

Another official said high-rises and the steep landscape made life more difficult.

"However, construction of the West Rail Line also involved boring a tunnel below high-rises and historic buildings," senior construction engineer Cheng Kai- shing said.

The three-kilometer extension to the present Island Line will serve three stations at Sai Ying Pun, University of Hong Kong and Kennedy Town.

As a result of the project, Kennedy Town station will become a terminus instead of the current Sheung Wan stop.

Travelers will not have to change trains at Sheung Wan to get to Kennedy Town.

A Y-shaped 650-meter overrun tunnel was built at Kennedy Town station to allow trains to turn back towards Chai Wan.

When completed, the University of Hong Kong station will be the largest and deepest cave-style station in the railway network with a length of 250m and a total depth of 70m.

The project, which began in July 2009, will serve the population of Western District - estimated at 200,000 - when it is completed in two years' time.

The construction of the three stations is expected to be finished within the next year.

When the extension is completed, the Island Line will be able to move 85,000 passengers an hour in either direction.

MTR Corp said it will then only take 14 minutes to travel between Kennedy Town and Tsim Sha Tsui.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 05:10 AM   #3245
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One in four women ride to MTR abuse
The Standard
Thursday, November 22, 2012

A quarter of women on the MTR have either been indecently assaulted or had secret snapshots taken of them, but none complained to police or railway staff.

That's a finding of the Association Concerning Sexual Violence Against Women, which surveyed 537 respondents in October and November over sexual incidents on the subway.

Of the respondents, 139 said they have been molested or secretly photographed - including upskirt - with most incidents occurring during peak weekday hours, advocacy officer Elaine Lam Yee-ling said.

But none of the victims filed police reports or sought help from MTR staff. Instead, 45percent left their seats and 35percent pretended nothing happened.

Around a third just stared at the offenders, and only 2 percent yelled at them.

For those who did not raise a fuss, more than half worried they would be blamed, or not be believed by other passengers.

Twenty-four percent felt it was useless to seek help.

More than 10 percent of respondents witnessed such incidents, but only 4 percent took action.

Furthermore, only 11 victims said they were offered help.

Most believe sexual harassment is serious on the subway, and 92percent said MTR Corp has not done enough to prevent the offenses.

To encourage victims to report sex crimes, Lam urges the company to conduct promotions on speaking out, as well as reinforce police patrols, install more video cameras, and improve the design of escalators and lifts.

Meanwhile, a 40-year-old man was arrested after allegedly molesting a female passenger on a train from Lai King to Nam Cheong station at about 8.45am yesterday.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 09:37 PM   #3246
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Quote:
...only 2 percent yelled at them.
I read such things like this:
Only 2 percent felt like they were victims of sexual harassment, the rest liked it or didnt care.

If somebody is harassing you - act or at least go away if you fell to weak to act.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 02:21 AM   #3247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falubaz View Post
I read such things like this:
Only 2 percent felt like they were victims of sexual harassment, the rest liked it or didnt care.
Every person responds differently when they feel threatened. Some fight, some flee, some freeze up.

Blaming the victim is very, very low, and very inaccurate.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 02:22 AM   #3248
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Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
Every person responds differently when they feel threatened. Some fight, some flee, some freeze up.

Blaming the victim is very, very low, and very inaccurate.
Agreed. Anyone who has experienced such problems should be encouraged to contact their women affairs liaison of their local authority.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 01:21 PM   #3249
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First, just because someone feels they are the victim of inappropriate touches or looks doesn't necessarily mean a crime or any intentional perversion has occurred. On a crowded subway train there is going to be incidental physical contact so it doesn't mean a person is always being groped. The same goes for alleged peeping. You can't expect everyone to stare at the ceiling in order to avoid an allegation of peeping. People look around and move their head to avoid stiffness. If people are trying to read what a woman's shirt says (and many women wear shirts with logos and text), that can easily be mistaken for gawking at her chest.

Second, if a person wears a t-shirt that says, "Hong Kong sucks" on the MTR, can they honestly be upset that people are staring at their chest...er..shirt? It is that person's right to wear a shirt saying "Hong Kong sucks", but I doubt anyone would on this forum would come to their defense if they complained about all the attention.

We all make choices over what to wear and we can rationally anticipate the kind of reactions the clothing will elicit. I'm not excusing people taking perverted photos and groping, that is clearly unethical, rude behavior. But several people on this forum want to be Sir Lancelot riding to the rescue of these damsels in distress. What would you have MTR and police do? I can't think of many practical policies by MTR or the police to prevent people from peeping or gawking at women. How do you write a law that bans looking at a woman in a certain way to make her uncomfortable? Such a law would be too vague and infringe on individual rights and be nearly impossible to enforce.

Even if the women reported someone to the police, what can the police do? How many resources do they have to spend on tracking down alleged perverts where the only evidence is one person's uncomfortable feelings? I don't think anyone wants to live in a city where one person's uncomfortable feelings are enough to get you arrested.

It's more practical to advise people who feel uncomfortable to 1) move to a different part of the train and 2) wear more conservative clothes. What would a parent do if their daughter complained that people were staring at her when she rode the MTR wearing skimpy clothes? I think she would she advise her daughter to wear something more normal, just as someone who dislikes attention probably shouldn't wear a "Hong Kong sucks" t-shirt on the MTR.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 07:40 PM   #3250
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First, just because someone feels they are the victim of inappropriate touches or looks doesn't necessarily mean a crime or any intentional perversion has occurred. On a crowded subway train there is going to be incidental physical contact so it doesn't mean a person is always being groped. The same goes for alleged peeping. You can't expect everyone to stare at the ceiling in order to avoid an allegation of peeping. People look around and move their head to avoid stiffness. If people are trying to read what a woman's shirt says (and many women wear shirts with logos and text), that can easily be mistaken for gawking at her chest.

Second, if a person wears a t-shirt that says, "Hong Kong sucks" on the MTR, can they honestly be upset that people are staring at their chest...er..shirt? It is that person's right to wear a shirt saying "Hong Kong sucks", but I doubt anyone would on this forum would come to their defense if they complained about all the attention.

We all make choices over what to wear and we can rationally anticipate the kind of reactions the clothing will elicit. I'm not excusing people taking perverted photos and groping, that is clearly unethical, rude behavior. But several people on this forum want to be Sir Lancelot riding to the rescue of these damsels in distress. What would you have MTR and police do? I can't think of many practical policies by MTR or the police to prevent people from peeping or gawking at women. How do you write a law that bans looking at a woman in a certain way to make her uncomfortable? Such a law would be too vague and infringe on individual rights and be nearly impossible to enforce.

Even if the women reported someone to the police, what can the police do? How many resources do they have to spend on tracking down alleged perverts where the only evidence is one person's uncomfortable feelings? I don't think anyone wants to live in a city where one person's uncomfortable feelings are enough to get you arrested.

It's more practical to advise people who feel uncomfortable to 1) move to a different part of the train and 2) wear more conservative clothes. What would a parent do if their daughter complained that people were staring at her when she rode the MTR wearing skimpy clothes? I think she would she advise her daughter to wear something more normal, just as someone who dislikes attention probably shouldn't wear a "Hong Kong sucks" t-shirt on the MTR.


A very long text responding to... to what, exactly?
The article wasn't about women feeling uncomfortable because they think they are being stared at:
"A quarter of women on the MTR have either been indecently assaulted or had secret snapshots taken of them"

Assaulted or secret snapshots. That's serious stuff, and can in no way be blamed on the victim. There's nothing 'Sir Lancelot' about that.

Next time you want to WRITE a lot, READ what you are responding to.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 06:22 AM   #3251
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The allegations in the article are very serious : "139 said they have been molested or secretly photographed - including upskirt". It's not something you can just move away to another part of the train. They should be confronted, the passenger assistance alarm activated, and have the police arrest the accused at the next station.

It's very easy to get evidence. If there was groping, there'd be fingerprints. If there were photos, they will still be in the phone/camera.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 05:35 PM   #3252
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Quote:
"A quarter of women on the MTR have either been indecently assaulted or had secret snapshots taken of them"
That should read, 'a quarter of woman on the MTR claimed to have been indecently assaulted.' A pervert groping a woman is a serious offense, but we don't know to what extent that is actually happening. As I stated before, incidental contact on a crowded train could be mistaken for groping. These alleged offenses must have been subtle if no one around noticed except for the woman.

I'm looking for anyone to propose some practical, effective policies to prevent groping that don't lead to witch hunts or people getting wrongfully accused. Certainly if woman spoke up at the moment of the offense it would stop the offense since perverts avoid confrontation. But if they don't speak out or move to another part of the train, what can MTR or the police do? Do you want to set up a women-only cars like in the Tehran metro?

Quote:
It's very easy to get evidence. If there was groping, there'd be fingerprints. If there were photos, they will still be in the phone/camera.
Pictures/videos on the phone would be good evidence but I'm not sure you're going to find good fingerprints on someone's clothes. How many woman are going to wait around for the police to take fingerprint samples off her shirt or pants?

Last edited by Geography; November 24th, 2012 at 05:40 PM.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 07:51 PM   #3253
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Originally Posted by Geography View Post
I'm looking for anyone to propose some practical, effective policies to prevent groping that don't lead to witch hunts or people getting wrongfully accused. Certainly if woman spoke up at the moment of the offense it would stop the offense since perverts avoid confrontation. But if they don't speak out or move to another part of the train, what can MTR or the police do? Do you want to set up a women-only cars like in the Tehran metro?


Pictures/videos on the phone would be good evidence but I'm not sure you're going to find good fingerprints on someone's clothes. How many woman are going to wait around for the police to take fingerprint samples off her shirt or pants?
You can't prevent perverts from acting unless you arrest them and put them behind bars. Not much can be done if the women don't voice out. But if they do, the police will begin a criminal investigation and fingerprints will be an important part of that investigation. The victim would need to provide that evidence in order for the prosecution to proceed.
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Old November 25th, 2012, 06:38 AM   #3254
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You can't prevent perverts from acting unless you arrest them and put them behind bars. Not much can be done if the women don't voice out. But if they do, the police will begin a criminal investigation and fingerprints will be an important part of that investigation. The victim would need to provide that evidence in order for the prosecution to proceed.
Specialized undercover teams to witness the events, expose the perverts and bring them to justice will also help to deter such crimes.
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Old November 25th, 2012, 02:16 PM   #3255
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Specialized undercover teams to witness the events, expose the perverts and bring them to justice will also help to deter such crimes.
I actually don't think that's very possible especially during rush hour, when trains are packed to the brim and space should be given to move passengers. They'll never be able to deploy enough undercovers to get reasonable coverage anyway.
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Old November 25th, 2012, 03:44 PM   #3256
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I actually don't think that's very possible especially during rush hour, when trains are packed to the brim and space should be given to move passengers. They'll never be able to deploy enough undercovers to get reasonable coverage anyway.
It's not about reasonable coverage, it's about getting just a few and punishing them hard, making their faces known, to scare others into stopping their perverted activities.
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Old November 25th, 2012, 04:26 PM   #3257
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It's not about reasonable coverage, it's about getting just a few and punishing them hard, making their faces known, to scare others into stopping their perverted activities.
The best way to scare these people is to confront them. Having undercovers will not help when the victim is not willing to step forward in court to send the assailant to jail. If the victims do their part, then there is no need to have undercovers roaming the crowded trains.
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Old November 25th, 2012, 05:53 PM   #3258
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The best way to scare these people is to confront them. Having undercovers will not help when the victim is not willing to step forward in court to send the assailant to jail. If the victims do their part, then there is no need to have undercovers roaming the crowded trains.
Victims need to know the law and the people are on their side, or they will never dare to speak up.
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Old November 25th, 2012, 07:50 PM   #3259
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Having undercovers will not help when the victim is not willing to step forward in court to send the assailant to jail.
This is a good idea. Undercover officers can be of great use in deterring and arresting not only gropers but also pickpockets.
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Old November 26th, 2012, 04:50 AM   #3260
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This is a good idea. Undercover officers can be of great use in deterring and arresting not only gropers but also pickpockets.
AFAIK there are undercovers patrolling the trains, especially during peak hours to deter these indecent acts.
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