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Old February 24th, 2014, 07:55 AM   #3481
Ashis Mitra
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I don't know, why hongkong metro is not extending now. Are they costructed and converted all lines finally?
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Old February 24th, 2014, 10:14 AM   #3482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
The cheapest doesn't mean the poorest in terms of quality.

I wonder why everyone keeps blasting Chinese quality yet in China itself almost all metro systems work properly.
PRC has its own industrial standards, and some are even stricter than the European and US standards. However, it is the manufacturer and the so-called testing authority to enforce the standard strictly.

Metro systems in PRC work properly does not mean that their qualities are up to international standard. Sub-standard components may work perfectly at start, but wearing sets in in a quicker fashion and may disrupt normal running of trains or other systems, just like what has happened on East Rail Line.
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Last edited by xavier114fch; February 24th, 2014 at 10:20 AM. Reason: grammar nazi
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Old February 24th, 2014, 10:20 AM   #3483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashis Mitra View Post
I don't know, why hongkong metro is not extending now. Are they costructed and converted all lines finally?
It is still extending. This is the list of projects under construction:

- West Island Line (part of Island Line, 3 stations) / mid-late 2014
- South Island Line (East Section, new line, 5 stations) / 2015
- Kwun Tong Line extension (2 stations) / 2015
- High-speed rail (connection to PRC, 1 terminus) / 2015
- East West Corridor of Shatin-Central Link (link up West Rail and Ma On Shan Lines to become one single line, 6 stations) / 2018
- North South Corridor of Shatin-Central Link (extension of East Rail Line across the harbour, 2 stations) / 2020

More projects are on the drawing board of the authorities. Consultation has been made in the last 2 years and the plan will be announced in the next 1-2 months.
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Old February 25th, 2014, 12:02 AM   #3484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddes View Post
It's cheaper to blame Chinese quality than admit that the operator themselves failed to perform quality checks on receiving. It would be the equivalent of shooting themselves in the foot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
The manufacturer is responsible for testing their parts for quality assurance, not the purchaser. Would a vehicle owner test to make sure the car's engine works?

Clearly, your line of thinking does not make sense. The best that a purchaser can do is due diligence on the manufacturer, which is a reputable European brand for this part.
The insulators are industrial/commercial products. MTR's engineer(s)/consultant(s) and MTR themselves are also held accountable.
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Old February 25th, 2014, 03:59 AM   #3485
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Originally Posted by skyridgeline View Post
The insulators are industrial/commercial products. MTR's engineer(s)/consultant(s) and MTR themselves are also held accountable.
So would we expect an engineer buying a car to take it apart and properly test it before making payment?

If indeed it is defective on the manufacturer's side, I smell a lawsuit coming.
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Old February 25th, 2014, 04:30 AM   #3486
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Skyridgeline is right. Both the supplier's defective product and MTR's lack of quality control are at fault.

If MTR were absolved of culpability, it wouldn't have any incentive to test their outsourced materials. Then MTR could rationally source from the absolute rock bottom suppliers. When things inevitably go wrong, it could claim innocence and point the finger elsewhere.

If a defective car part is sourced from a subcontractor, the end automobile maker still has to accept responsibility.

A post-tensioned building started to fall apart. The steel cables had corroded from within and began to rust. The supplier of the steel cables used lower grade steel. The contractor claimed innocence because they adhered to their job. In the end, the courts ruled both of them at fault.

^true story from my own nightmarish dealings with the real estate industry
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Old February 25th, 2014, 11:35 PM   #3487
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How does one test for a fault that appears only after a long period of continuous use?

The products were bought in good faith that they'd work as per the conditions of the contract.
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Old February 26th, 2014, 01:21 AM   #3488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sopomon View Post
How does one test for a fault that appears only after a long period of continuous use?

The products were bought in good faith that they'd work as per the conditions of the contract.
You can send a sample to a lab for fatigue test, we do that for life safety or critical control related materials. Manufacturer's QC for the most part are worthless.
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Old February 26th, 2014, 02:10 AM   #3489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sopomon View Post
How does one test for a fault that appears only after a long period of continuous use? The products were bought in good faith that they'd work as per the conditions of the contract.
Have you never seen the machines at IKEA that repeatedly rock chairs etc in order to show that they'd withstand 1000, 10000 etc movements? The manufacturer should test them but at the end of the day they want to sell them so will always cherry pick figures
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Old February 26th, 2014, 04:35 AM   #3490
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The Legislative Council Panel on Transport Subcommittee on Matters Relating to Railways has issued papers for the upcoming meeting on 28 Feb. Besides the discussion on recent service suspensions, Legco members will also discuss about the capacity and loading of trains.

This is the paper outlining the crowdedness of trains. The last page includes a table with figures of ideal and current capacity of the running lines.
http://www.legco.gov.hk/yr13-14/engl...b1-980-3-e.pdf

For running lines, they are using a standard of 6 person per square meter (ppsm) to calculate the train capacities. It seems there are still rooms for more passengers, but if they change the standard to 4 ppsm, many lines are near to a 100% loading. Tseung Kwan O Line is the worst and it is 100.6%. The authority blames that the usage of mobile and tablets on trains, and reading of newspapers and magazines contribute to the crowdedness problem. They are thinking to remove seats from trains to pack more passengers. Citizens compared this proposal to the transport of animals in cages, and use Mumbai trains to make parody of the proposal.

The authority said they would use the revised standard (4 ppsm) to calculate the capacity of trains for new lines. The urban lines will also get signalling upgrade from 2018-22 to run more trains.

Legco also provides a paper with background information of the capacity issue, which includes the study that compares the crowdedness of major cities like Tokyo, Berlin, Beijing and Singapore.
http://www.legco.gov.hk/yr13-14/engl...b1-980-4-e.pdf
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Old February 26th, 2014, 10:04 AM   #3491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sopomon View Post
How does one test for a fault that appears only after a long period of continuous use?

The products were bought in good faith that they'd work as per the conditions of the contract.
The moral of the story is not to put your good faith in the wrong people.

As per your point about testing for a fault that may only appear after a long time that's a good question.
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Old February 26th, 2014, 02:16 PM   #3492
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Today:

Quote:
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/n...hong-kong.html

Driverless metro train arrives in Hong Kong
26 Feb 2014





CHINA: The first metro train for Hong Kong’s South Island Line (East) was delivered to Siu Ho Wan depot on February 19. This is the first of 10 three-car trainsets being supplied by Changchun Railway Vehicles Co, which are to be equipped for unattended train operation.

According to metro operator MTR Corp, the train has undergone 5 000 km of test running on the supplier’s test track. Following initial testing at Siu Ho Wan Depot, the fleet will be moved to Wong Chuk Hang depot in late 2014 for final testing and commissioning before entering passenger service next year.

The 7 km South Island Line (East) is to run from Admiralty to South Horizons with three intermediate stations. The ‘medium capacity’ line will operate services at 3 min peak headways. MTR says that around 60% of the works have been completed.
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Old February 26th, 2014, 04:14 PM   #3493
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Why do they always use trains of such an outdated look?
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Old February 27th, 2014, 02:06 AM   #3494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
Why do they always use trains of such an outdated look?
It's probably what MTR likes, they already paid a ton of money to get the internal fit out designed by the French, and to be honest, there is nothing new on the SIL internal outfit. The fluorescent strip lighting covers has a bubble pattern to reflect the sea, and use of faux wood in some areas to reduce the sterile MTR look, but other than that, seating and pole layouts are the same as normal urban line trains.
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Old February 28th, 2014, 06:48 PM   #3495
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Hong Kong metro seats may be scrapped for smartphone space
26 February 2014
Agence France Presse

Hong Kong is pondering whether to rip out some seats from overcrowded metro trains to give the city's smartphone-addicted population more room to interact with their devices.

The transport and housing bureau has suggested that the MTR Corporation, which operates the underground railway system, consider the move to relieve rush-hour congestion.

"There are an increasing number of passengers reading newspapers or using mobile devices such as tablet computers or smartphones during their trips that require more personal space on trains," it said in a paper to the legislature Tuesday.

It recommended the "removal of some seats in some train compartments, to increase carrying capacity" as well as incentives for passengers who travel outside peak hours.

Smartphone penetration stands at 87 percent of the city's residents, according to government figures from September 2013. Authorities have been forced to plaster MTR stations with signs warning passengers to look up from their phones to avoid injury on escalators.

The train carriages were designed in the 1980s and 1990s to hold a maximum six people in one square metre (10.7 sq ft) of space. The bureau has proposed reducing this number to four to give passengers more space.

Commuters were "less willing to board a train that looks crowded even when there is still room available", it said. "They prefer waiting for the next train."

On a weekday, an average of 5.2 million passenger trips are made on the 218-kilometre (135-mile) network.

Kenneth Chan Chi-yuk, chairman of the Elderly Services Association of Hong Kong, criticised the plan.

"There are more elderly people now (in Hong Kong) and public facilities are not adequate," he said.

"Does it not contradict the original purpose of having seats?"
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Old March 1st, 2014, 05:05 PM   #3496
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image hosted on flickr
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Old March 2nd, 2014, 05:12 PM   #3497
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MTR vows to improve quality after long train delays
Chief executive says sourcing of materials and quality assurance are the railway operator's weakest points
PUBLISHED : Saturday, 01 March, 2014, 3:59am
South China Morning Post

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The MTR Corporation is reviewing its overhead cable system and has pledged to improve quality control after three faults caused long delays on its East Rail and Tseung Kwan O lines.

Chief executive Jay Walder admitted yesterday that the MTR's sourcing of materials and quality assurance were the railway operator's weakest points.

Walder was speaking to lawmakers after faulty insulators caused long delays on its East Rail Line twice in 10 days last month, and a faulty support wire held up trains for five hours on its Tseung Kwan O Line in December.

"The most important weakness, which became apparent in the review of the East Rail incident, is the sourcing of materials and the related quality assurance," Walder said. "We must do a better job of assuring the quality of critical parts."

But Walder insisted that the railway system's performance was not slipping. He said the 143 delays of more than 10 minutes experienced last year were the least since it merged with the Kowloon-Canton Railway in 2007.

The Legislative Council railways subcommittee also heard that the MTR would improve its monitoring of construction work, after the firm found that the loose wire that caused the five-hour delay on the Tseung Kwan O Line in December was the result of a support bracket not having been fixed according to its design.

Transport minister Professor Anthony Cheung Bing-leung told the subcommittee that the railway company had hired independent experts to review its overhead cable system and that the Electrical and Mechanical Services Department would also look into the same issue. The experts were expected to complete their report by June.

Lawmaker Michael Tien Puk-sun, of the New People's Party, said it was unbelievable that the MTR had not discovered the problem on the Tseung Kwan O Line earlier. "You did not even check against the design when you inspected the work after it was completed," he said.

A document submitted by the Transport and Housing Bureau said a bracket holding the loose wire was supporting two overhead cables, when it should have held only one.

The angle of the fastening wire was also smaller than it was designed to be, and the load on that wire, which broke, was three times the design specification.

"There is no documentation showing why a non-typical configuration was used at the time of installation, nor can a record be retrieved of any changes to the design or installation method," the document stated.

Legislators also questioned the way disruption penalties were assessed, after the railway was fined a total of HK$3 million for the East Rail hold-ups on February 9 and 18, which caused delays over periods of four and three hours, respectively.

The penalties were based on the longest single disruption. In the first failure, the HK$1 million fine was based on the longest service disruption of 50 minutes. Calculated over the full four hours, the fine would have been five times that amount.

Similarly, the railway was fined HK$2 million for the second disruption, instead of HK$3 million if the amount had been calculated over the full three hours that the delay lasted.
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 03:26 AM   #3498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Hong Kong metro seats may be scrapped for smartphone space
26 February 2014
Agence France Presse

Hong Kong is pondering whether to rip out some seats from overcrowded metro trains to give the city's smartphone-addicted population more room to interact with their devices.

The transport and housing bureau has suggested that the MTR Corporation, which operates the underground railway system, consider the move to relieve rush-hour congestion.

"There are an increasing number of passengers reading newspapers or using mobile devices such as tablet computers or smartphones during their trips that require more personal space on trains," it said in a paper to the legislature Tuesday.

It recommended the "removal of some seats in some train compartments, to increase carrying capacity" as well as incentives for passengers who travel outside peak hours.

Smartphone penetration stands at 87 percent of the city's residents, according to government figures from September 2013. Authorities have been forced to plaster MTR stations with signs warning passengers to look up from their phones to avoid injury on escalators.

The train carriages were designed in the 1980s and 1990s to hold a maximum six people in one square metre (10.7 sq ft) of space. The bureau has proposed reducing this number to four to give passengers more space.

Commuters were "less willing to board a train that looks crowded even when there is still room available", it said. "They prefer waiting for the next train."

On a weekday, an average of 5.2 million passenger trips are made on the 218-kilometre (135-mile) network.

Kenneth Chan Chi-yuk, chairman of the Elderly Services Association of Hong Kong, criticised the plan.

"There are more elderly people now (in Hong Kong) and public facilities are not adequate," he said.

"Does it not contradict the original purpose of having seats?"
This is the most ridiculous idea I've heard in a while for a number of obvious reasons...
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 06:22 AM   #3499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xavier114fch View Post
But according to the estimates given in the last consultation, the "average train loadings" of all cross harbour routes maintain at or lower than 60%, so in the authorities' view there is no need for the 5HC.

http://www.ourfuturerailway.hk/index.html?l=us&p=002

The Legco has released a research brief on the crowdedness of trains. It seems they are seeking an updated way to measure the train loadings.

http://www.legco.gov.hk/yr13-14/engl...1314rb04-e.pdf
Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Hong Kong metro seats may be scrapped for smartphone space
26 February 2014
Agence France Presse

Hong Kong is pondering whether to rip out some seats from overcrowded metro trains to give the city's smartphone-addicted population more room to interact with their devices.

The transport and housing bureau has suggested that the MTR Corporation, which operates the underground railway system, consider the move to relieve rush-hour congestion.

"There are an increasing number of passengers reading newspapers or using mobile devices such as tablet computers or smartphones during their trips that require more personal space on trains," it said in a paper to the legislature Tuesday.

It recommended the "removal of some seats in some train compartments, to increase carrying capacity" as well as incentives for passengers who travel outside peak hours.

Smartphone penetration stands at 87 percent of the city's residents, according to government figures from September 2013. Authorities have been forced to plaster MTR stations with signs warning passengers to look up from their phones to avoid injury on escalators.

The train carriages were designed in the 1980s and 1990s to hold a maximum six people in one square metre (10.7 sq ft) of space. The bureau has proposed reducing this number to four to give passengers more space.

Commuters were "less willing to board a train that looks crowded even when there is still room available", it said. "They prefer waiting for the next train."

On a weekday, an average of 5.2 million passenger trips are made on the 218-kilometre (135-mile) network.

Kenneth Chan Chi-yuk, chairman of the Elderly Services Association of Hong Kong, criticised the plan.

"There are more elderly people now (in Hong Kong) and public facilities are not adequate," he said.

"Does it not contradict the original purpose of having seats?"
I'd say a 5th Harbor Crossing is in order.
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 10:00 AM   #3500
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Having all these harbour crossings is just ridiculous.
The point is people want to get from Central to the Tsim Tsa Tsui area.

After the East Rail Line crosses the harbour, the first stop is Hung Hom, in the middle of nowhere. Sure it relieves passengers going from Central to ERL via Mong Kok and Diamond Hill, but that's not where most people want to go.

What is better is short running trains on the Tsuen Wan Line to Lai King and Choi Hung from Central during peak times.

In addition to this, the future East West line needs to be routed:
West Rail Line <> existing East Rail line to Tai Wai <> existing Ma On Shan line

And the future North South line needs to be routed:
Existing East Rail line from Lo Wu to Tai Wai, future Tai Wai to Hung Hom via Diamond Hill and Kai Tak, then the cross harbour link.

Why did I say this? Because the future CRH link will be at West Kowloon. People will be using the Tung Chung Line or Tsuen Wan line to get there. This already relieves Tsuen Wan line for cross border traffic. The North South axis will then gain a new catchment area of East Kowloon, and it will get rid of customers who use the Tsuen Wan line to cross the harbour get to the Kwun Tong line and shift them there.
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