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Old June 26th, 2016, 06:32 PM   #4021
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This is one of the most important railway maps in the history of Hong Kong.

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Old June 30th, 2016, 01:12 PM   #4022
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Old June 30th, 2016, 01:16 PM   #4023
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The Standard Excerpt
South Island Line opening off-track
June 28, 2016

A senior transport official said yesterday it is not yet certain if the South Island Line can be opened by the end of the year as promised by the MTR Corp Ltd.

In a meeting with the Legislative Council's railways subcommittee, Undersecretary for Transport and Housing Yau Shing-mu said that according to the work schedule, the time would be extremely tight for the remaining engineering work and checks, posing risk to the opening date.

However, progress on the Kwun Tong extension line is good and it will open in the fourth quarter of this year.

"We can see a risk in completing the South Island line by 2016. The MTR Corp needs to put more effort in order to meet the schedule," Director of Highways Peter Lau Ka-keung told the meeting.

Asked by Federation of Trade Unions lawmaker Bill Tang Ka-piu about the difficulties in construction, MTRCL project manager Ken Wong Kin-wai said the problems involved transporting construction material to the underground site given the narrow tunnels and complicated geo structure of Admiralty station.

New People's Party's Michael Tien Puk-sun urged the corporation to hand in a progress report to Legco at the end of each month until September, as the railway is required to test operations for three months before the opening.

Wong said the MTR will hand in a report to the Highways Department every month and it will study whether such a report to Legco is possible.

Claudia Mo Man-ching from the Civic Party wanted more details of the estimated overbudget of HK$75 million for the Kwun Tong line extension.

Yau said the additional cost involved the public transport construction such as the footbridge.

The general manager for the Kwun Tong line extension, James Chow So- hung, said the MTRCL is carrying out an assessment on the possible overbudget.
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Old July 6th, 2016, 03:27 PM   #4024
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South China Morning Post Excerpt
MTR Corporation in spotlight amid revelations faulty trains were secretly shipped from Singapore to mainland for repairs
Online news agency reported that Singapore sent 35 subway trains back to Qingdao for repairs; MTR has ordered 102 trains from same manufacturer including nine for high-speed link
July 6, 2016

The MTR Corporation will question a mainland Chinese manufacturer about the quality of nine new high-speed trains and another 93 urban trains it purchased after it was revealed that 35 faulty subway trains produced by it were being secretly shipped back from Singapore to the mainland for repairs.

The alarm was raised as news agency FactWire reported that the mainland Chinese-made trains in Singapore had cracks in their bodies and key structural components. It said they had been sent back to their manufacturer in Qingdao for repair.

The trains were made by CSR Qingdao Sifang Company in a joint venture with Kawasaki Heavy Industries. The venture has since been renamed CRRC Qingdao Sifang Company.

“Details of the defects and the recalls have been kept secret in both Singapore and China,” it said.

The same mainland manufacturer is responsible for manufacturing nine trains for the express rail link from Hong Kong to Guangzhou and 93 eight-car trains for the MTR’s urban lines after a “rigorous” tendering process in March 2012 and July last year respectively, according to the MTRC.

“On the alleged technical issues of trains in Singapore, the MTR Corporation will approach CRRC Qingdao Sifang to seek further information,” the MTRC said in a statement on Tuesday night.

“Under the procurement contracts, the supply, manufacture, testing and commissioning of the trains must be carried out in accordance with MTR’s specifications on the basis of the Corporation’s design and manufacturing standards.”

More : http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/e...ty-trains-were
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Old July 7th, 2016, 03:42 PM   #4025
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Old July 9th, 2016, 07:02 PM   #4026
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MTR comes under fire after admitting it knew about faulty trains before awarding contract to manufacturer
Hong Kong transport chief also admits that his bureau received emails on the issue over a year ago
July 7, 2016
South China Morning Post Excerpt

The MTR Corporation was *accused of a cover-up on Thursday after it admitted to awarding a HK$6 billion contract for 93 new trains to a mainland manufacturer while being aware of problems with its trains two years ago.

The rail operator said on Thursday night it knew back in 2014 that Singapore had found cracks on subway trains supplied by CSR Qingdao Sifang – now CRRC Qingdao Sifang.

But NeoDemocrat lawmaker Gary Fan Kwok-wai accused the MTR Corp of a cover-up as it concealed important information until the last minute.

“There is a big cover-up. Why did the MTR Corp still insist on allowing the mainland firm to be a bidder when it already knew about the faulty train problems? The circumstances are really unusual. It needs to give the public a detailed account,” he said.

Of the 35 subway trains purchased by Singapore, 26 had cracks on their bodies and in key structural components. They were quietly recalled and shipped back to Qingdao for repairs.

“We immediately inquired with the Singapore authorities. We were told that the problems would not affect the trains’ safety operation, and that CSR Sifang would conduct follow-ups on the faulty trains,” the MTR Corp said.

MTR bosses were also aware that Singapore’s transport operator, SMRT Corp, continued to procure new trains from the firm despite the problems.

“Based on all these, we thought this incident would not affect CSR Sifang’s qualification as a bidder [for our trains],” it said.

The MTR Corp ended up awarding the HK$6 billion contract for 93 new urban trains to the mainland maker in July last year.
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Old July 10th, 2016, 07:35 PM   #4027
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By A-Lex from dcfever :

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Old July 12th, 2016, 12:10 AM   #4028
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-- Is this something unique, or is this a symbol of the Chinese takeover of Hong Kong? yes, that's a big leap. It just seemed like Hong Kong had a better record for integrity in years past. Is that correct, or just my impression?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
MTR comes under fire after admitting it knew about faulty trains before awarding contract to manufacturer
Hong Kong transport chief also admits that his bureau received emails on the issue over a year ago
July 7, 2016
South China Morning Post Excerpt

The MTR Corporation was *accused of a cover-up on Thursday after it admitted to awarding a HK$6 billion contract for 93 new trains to a mainland manufacturer while being aware of problems with its trains two years ago.

The rail operator said on Thursday night it knew back in 2014 that Singapore had found cracks on subway trains supplied by CSR Qingdao Sifang – now CRRC Qingdao Sifang.

But NeoDemocrat lawmaker Gary Fan Kwok-wai accused the MTR Corp of a cover-up as it concealed important information until the last minute.

“There is a big cover-up. Why did the MTR Corp still insist on allowing the mainland firm to be a bidder when it already knew about the faulty train problems? The circumstances are really unusual. It needs to give the public a detailed account,” he said.

Of the 35 subway trains purchased by Singapore, 26 had cracks on their bodies and in key structural components. They were quietly recalled and shipped back to Qingdao for repairs.

“We immediately inquired with the Singapore authorities. We were told that the problems would not affect the trains’ safety operation, and that CSR Sifang would conduct follow-ups on the faulty trains,” the MTR Corp said.

MTR bosses were also aware that Singapore’s transport operator, SMRT Corp, continued to procure new trains from the firm despite the problems.

“Based on all these, we thought this incident would not affect CSR Sifang’s qualification as a bidder [for our trains],” it said.

The MTR Corp ended up awarding the HK$6 billion contract for 93 new urban trains to the mainland maker in July last year.
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Old July 12th, 2016, 02:52 AM   #4029
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elliot42 View Post
-- Is this something unique, or is this a symbol of the Chinese takeover of Hong Kong? yes, that's a big leap. It just seemed like Hong Kong had a better record for integrity in years past. Is that correct, or just my impression?
No. It's just a typical mainlander bashing article. I think Japan's Kawasaki Heavy Industries was/is responsible for quality control. Kawasaki will rebuild the defective trains themselves.

Hong Kong is a "global" city. And taking over a relatively barrier-free city is very expensive. That's why China is building another "HK" next to it - Shenzhen. By 2047, the differences between the regions in the delta will be negligible.

Interestingly, this expensive "recall" is possible because Singapore is less corrupt and more dedicated than most countries.



US-made LRT trains also had cracks

The affected LRT trains belonged to the first batch of automated people movers to arrive here in 1999.

SMRT Trains managing director Lee Ling Wee said the cracks were discovered "during a routine assessment by Bombardier in 2015". ...

In total, 19 trains were found to have the defects. Twelve have since been rectified by SMRT, using welding methods. ...

In all, the Bukit Panjang LRT system has 32 trains - 19 from the first batch and 13 added recently. ...

The first batch of trains were made by Adtranz (ABB Daimler- Benz Transportation) before it was taken over by Canada's Bombardier in 2001. They were manufactured in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.


- Published Jul 8, 2016, 5:00 am SGT, http://www.straitstimes.com/singapor...lso-had-cracks
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Old July 12th, 2016, 07:48 AM   #4030
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2047? i suspect before then at least in the case of shen zhen.
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Old July 12th, 2016, 05:24 PM   #4031
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyridgeline View Post
No. It's just a typical mainlander bashing article. I think Japan's Kawasaki Heavy Industries was/is responsible for quality control. Kawasaki will rebuild the defective trains themselves.

Hong Kong is a "global" city. And taking over a relatively barrier-free city is very expensive. That's why China is building another "HK" next to it - Shenzhen. By 2047, the differences between the regions in the delta will be negligible.
I don't think it's just mainland bashing. Just because Kawasaki are in partnership doesn't mean that they were final QC. CRRC Qingdao Sifang were the ultimate manufacturers, and, let's face it, Kawasaki Heavy Industries build trains on a competitive basis elsewhere and within Japan for their rail companies and have limited issues.

If one reads this report it seems that Qingdao Sifang were responsible for manufacturing, assembling and conducting factory tests. Kawasaki were responsible for the design and overseeing the project and manufacturing the train bogies.

https://www.hongkongfp.com/2016/07/0...re-due-cracks/

The uninterruptible power supplies built in China were an issue and had to be replaced with ones made in Germany, too as they exploded.

Quote:
C151, the predecessor of C151A, has been manufactured by Kawasaki Heavy Industries in Japan since the 1980s. The two models share similar designs, but the C151 has been used by the SMRT since 1987 without experiencing cracks. Mainland sources revealed that some of the C151A trains manufactured by CSR Sifang were found to have impurities in their aluminium train car bodies, a very likely cause of the cracks now found in the trains.
I think this paragraph is very telling and hints at the problem lying with the Chinese manufacturing rather than the Japanese company like you are trying to claim.

Now Kawasaki are taking over the manufacturing of the train body, so let's just see whether the same issues plague them:

Quote:
A source from CSR Sifang told FactWire that at least five trains had been replaced since last year. They also said Kawasaki Heavy Industries was taking over the manufacturing of the flawed aluminium train car body, while CSR Sifang is responsible for reassembling the train cars. Arriving in Qingdao after half a month of shipping, each train car is disassembled and its parts refitted into the new car body.
There are other sources too:

http://companies.caixin.com/2016-03-22/100922969.html

See, there seems to be a decline in quality of production generally, and it isn't just in "biased press".

Last edited by Svartmetall; July 12th, 2016 at 05:31 PM.
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Old July 12th, 2016, 05:30 PM   #4032
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The accountability goes to CRRC Qingdao Sifang, the manufacturer. Whether they employ other companies to design and do the work is irrelevant. They hold the ultimate responsibility for making sure all their subcontractors and partners do what they are supposed to do.
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Old July 12th, 2016, 07:21 PM   #4033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyridgeline View Post
No. It's just a typical mainlander bashing article. I think Japan's Kawasaki Heavy Industries was/is responsible for quality control. Kawasaki will rebuild the defective trains themselves.

Hong Kong is a "global" city. And taking over a relatively barrier-free city is very expensive. That's why China is building another "HK" next to it - Shenzhen. By 2047, the differences between the regions in the delta will be negligible.

Interestingly, this expensive "recall" is possible because Singapore is less corrupt and more dedicated than most countries.



US-made LRT trains also had cracks

The affected LRT trains belonged to the first batch of automated people movers to arrive here in 1999.

SMRT Trains managing director Lee Ling Wee said the cracks were discovered "during a routine assessment by Bombardier in 2015". ...

In total, 19 trains were found to have the defects. Twelve have since been rectified by SMRT, using welding methods. ...

In all, the Bukit Panjang LRT system has 32 trains - 19 from the first batch and 13 added recently. ...

The first batch of trains were made by Adtranz (ABB Daimler- Benz Transportation) before it was taken over by Canada's Bombardier in 2001. They were manufactured in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.


- Published Jul 8, 2016, 5:00 am SGT, http://www.straitstimes.com/singapor...lso-had-cracks
IMHO Trains made by other companies in other countries had cracks is not an explanation nor a justification of the cracks found on the C151As. Don't make logical fallacy to render this reasonable.

Putting aside the sentiments, it's normal for Hong Kong public to be anxious as many of the new trains are now made in PRC. If they don't have proper QC or the capability of making trains, why the taxpayers' money went to cheaper ones instead of durable ones?

Another thing MTR is under fire is that, the tender process of a batch of new trains was 6 month shorter than the others. The tender was awarded to this manufacturer. Was the tendering process rigged to favour the PRC manufacturer?
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Old July 12th, 2016, 07:25 PM   #4034
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I also find it hilarious that the very article he linked to concerned trains that were built in 1999 and had problems for very different reasons. If you read what was said in the Straits Times you see this:

Quote:
In all, the Bukit Panjang LRT system has 32 trains - 19 from the first batch and 13 added recently.

It is not known what caused the cracks, but an LTA spokesman said they were "due to normal wear and tear". Each crack measured "no more than 12cm", and they were found on the "lateral beams of the underframe". "Cracks may develop over time after years of operations," the LTA said. It added that the defects "are not safety-critical".

The Qingdao Sifang MRT trains were found to have developed cracks because of impurities in the aluminium used to cast the chassis.
So completely different and not even related. One through wear and tear and were able to be fixed by welding. One was due to poor metal used to cast the chassis.

http://www.straitstimes.com/singapor...lso-had-cracks
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Old July 12th, 2016, 07:59 PM   #4035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svartmetall View Post
I don't think it's just mainland bashing. Just because Kawasaki are in partnership doesn't mean that they were final QC. CRRC Qingdao Sifang were the ultimate manufacturers, and, let's face it, Kawasaki Heavy Industries build trains on a competitive basis elsewhere and within Japan for their rail companies and have limited issues.

If one reads this report it seems that Qingdao Sifang were responsible for manufacturing, assembling and conducting factory tests. Kawasaki were responsible for the design and overseeing the project and manufacturing the train bogies.

https://www.hongkongfp.com/2016/07/0...re-due-cracks/

The uninterruptible power supplies built in China were an issue and had to be replaced with ones made in Germany, too as they exploded.



I think this paragraph is very telling and hints at the problem lying with the Chinese manufacturing rather than the Japanese company like you are trying to claim.

Now Kawasaki are taking over the manufacturing of the train body, so let's just see whether the same issues plague them:



There are other sources too:

http://companies.caixin.com/2016-03-22/100922969.html

See, there seems to be a decline in quality of production generally, and it isn't just in "biased press".
It's a Kawasaki-Sifang consortium (KSF) /Singapore problem. Not because it's manufactured and/or assembled in China. The articles in HK are mainly mainlander bashing.

Why did they not use Japanese batteries?

Caixin and Chinese train bashing is a contract .



Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
The accountability goes to CRRC Qingdao Sifang, the manufacturer. Whether they employ other companies to design and do the work is irrelevant. They hold the ultimate responsibility for making sure all their subcontractors and partners do what they are supposed to do.
They meaning Kawasaki-Sifang consortium (KSF) /Singapore yes? And they are owning up to the problem. What is Hong Kong's problem? Mainlanders ?
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Old July 12th, 2016, 08:21 PM   #4036
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Originally Posted by xavier114fch View Post
IMHO Trains made by other companies in other countries had cracks is not an explanation nor a justification of the cracks found on the C151As. Don't make logical fallacy to render this reasonable.

Putting aside the sentiments, it's normal for Hong Kong public to be anxious as many of the new trains are now made in PRC. If they don't have proper QC or the capability of making trains, why the taxpayers' money went to cheaper ones instead of durable ones?

Another thing MTR is under fire is that, the tender process of a batch of new trains was 6 month shorter than the others. The tender was awarded to this manufacturer. Was the tendering process rigged to favour the PRC manufacturer?

They are suggesting that doing business with China is not anymore wrong than doing business with the USA.

MTR running a racket in HK ok. But dealing with China is bad ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Svartmetall View Post
I also find it hilarious that the very article he linked to concerned trains that were built in 1999 and had problems for very different reasons. If you read what was said in the Straits Times you see this:



So completely different and not even related. One through wear and tear and were able to be fixed by welding. One was due to poor metal used to cast the chassis.

http://www.straitstimes.com/singapor...lso-had-cracks
It would make you feel better if they stated that the cracks likely started years earlier?
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Old July 12th, 2016, 08:25 PM   #4037
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyridgeline View Post
It's a Kawasaki-Sifang consortium (KSF) /Singapore problem. Not because it's manufactured and/or assembled in China. The articles in HK are mainly mainlander bashing.

Why did they not use Japanese batteries?

Caixin and Chinese train bashing is a contract .
#1. No it's not a problem of the consortium problem, it's the manufacturers problem - remember that CSSR Qingdao Sifeng were the ones who manufactured the body and most components of the carriages for Singapore. They were also the ones that carried out the quality control in the form of factory testing. The aluminium used in the bodywork of the C151A trains was found to be of poor quality which is what led to the cracking.

#2. If a German company can manufacture batteries perfectly well and at a good cost, why should they use Japanese batteries for the uninterruptible power supply? Japanese manufacturers, much like any other manufacturer worldwide uses components from all over the world and will source the best components for their application. German manufacturers will use Japanese components and visa versa, I don't see what you're saying here...? For example, most decent processors come from the foundries in Taiwan these days (TSMC for example). Should all countries develop their own foundry's in such a globalised world when there is a perfectly good one in Taiwan with a good reputation that can do it well already?

#3. Caixin published an article detailing the declining quality of CSSR Qingdao Sifeng and how that resulted in greater problems for CSR running the rail system due to rolling stock failures. To me, given it is a mainland source, is more reputable and cannot be accused of simply "bashing the mainland" given they are OF the mainland. If you are accusing Hong Kong sources of being biased, why not look to sources from the mainland that are exploring this very issue?

#4. The Kawasaki Heavy Industry rolling stock (C151) is still running in Singapore and does not demonstrate the problems this rolling stock does with their aluminium. Quite simply the problem lies in the manufacturing of this particular rolling stock rather than the Japanese company, which you seem very ready to vilify in this case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyridgeline View Post
It would make you feel better if they stated that the cracks likely started years earlier?
I don't know if something is being lost in translation here, but the very point they make is that the rolling stock is older, and therefore has been subject to much more wear-and-tear than the new C151A stock in Singapore. This kind of damage seen in the LRT trains is to be expected is what the Straits Times is reporting right there. Defects in aluminium leading to weakness which leads to cracking is a manufacturing error or QC oversight. This is quite different to wear-and-tear as then the blame lies with the manufacturer.
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Old July 12th, 2016, 08:56 PM   #4038
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Originally Posted by Svartmetall View Post
#1. No it's not a problem of the consortium problem, it's the manufacturers problem - remember that CSSR Qingdao Sifeng were the ones who manufactured the body and most components of the carriages for Singapore. They were also the ones that carried out the quality control in the form of factory testing. The aluminium used in the bodywork of the C151A trains was found to be of poor quality which is what led to the cracking.

#2. If a German company can manufacture batteries perfectly well and at a good cost, why should they use Japanese batteries for the uninterruptible power supply? Japanese manufacturers, much like any other manufacturer worldwide uses components from all over the world and will source the best components for their application. German manufacturers will use Japanese components and visa versa, I don't see what you're saying here...? For example, most decent processors come from the foundries in Taiwan these days (TSMC for example). Should all countries develop their own foundry's in such a globalised world when there is a perfectly good one in Taiwan with a good reputation that can do it well already?

#3. Caixin published an article detailing the declining quality of CSSR Qingdao Sifeng and how that resulted in greater problems for CSR running the rail system due to rolling stock failures. To me, given it is a mainland source, is more reputable and cannot be accused of simply "bashing the mainland" given they are OF the mainland. If you are accusing Hong Kong sources of being biased, why not look to sources from the mainland that are exploring this very issue?

#4. The Kawasaki Heavy Industry rolling stock (C151) is still running in Singapore and does not demonstrate the problems this rolling stock does with their aluminium. Quite simply the problem lies in the manufacturing of this particular rolling stock rather than the Japanese company, which you seem very ready to vilify in this case.



I don't know if something is being lost in translation here, but the very point they make is that the rolling stock is older, and therefore has been subject to much more wear-and-tear than the new C151A stock in Singapore. This kind of damage seen in the LRT trains is to be expected is what the Straits Times is reporting right there. Defects in aluminium leading to weakness which leads to cracking is a manufacturing error or QC oversight. This is quite different to wear-and-tear as then the blame lies with the manufacturer.
1- Under whose design/specification?
2- China bashing?
3- There is a big difference between Caixin's Chinese train bashing and China bashing.
4- The original C151 contract went to Kawasaki Heavy Industries, Nippon Sharyo, Tokyu Car Corp and Kinki Sharyo consortium. Maybe Kawasaki is not very good at designing?
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Old July 13th, 2016, 01:41 PM   #4039
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Hongkong metro is one of the great system in the world., and perhaps the only metro, which runs from one island to another under the sea/creek.

Many extensions and new lines are under construction –

Tungchung line is planned to extend towards western side upto Tungchung west, and towards Hongkong central area upto Tamar.
Tsueng Kwang O line planned to extend towards Hongkong central area upto Tamar.
Kwuntong line is extending towards Hongkong central area upto Whampoa.
East Kowloon line will be constructed from Diamond Hill to Po lam.
South Island line west will be constructed from University to Wong Chuk Hang.
South Island line east is under construction from Admirality to South Horizons.

I think the busiest line is Island line.
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Old July 13th, 2016, 03:57 PM   #4040
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,891
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People blame "mainland bashing" as a cover-up of those offending companies' incompetence. The rest of the world upholds a much higher QC standard and demands accountability for either design or manufacturing flaws.
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