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Old August 24th, 2004, 10:50 AM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ignoramus
I think public transport operators there should ''wake up''. I mean they build lines without physical integration (Heard that KL Monorail is not integrated with KL Sentral even though it has a station there), no fare integration (3 different cards, 3 different lines, reminds me of Manila's MRT/LRT system...) etc. They think too much of their own companies, thinking that is best... The ironic thing is that they have a nice nice map saying ''Integrated transit system of Kuala Lumpur''. Sometimes I wonder what are they doing........

Wow so basically Malaysia has all along had a ''SECRET CARD''... Only Malaysians knew about the card.........until now...........
Yea....they just awaken from their long slumber 2 years ago when they realised that their selfishness isn't doing anything good.

Then came the govt......The first to 'kena' is the toll operators as we used to have 4 contactless systems ....so since June last year - all toll operators had to have a TnG counter and 2 months back......all other contactless systems (with the exception of SmartTag - which uses TnG card) were decommissioned.

Now it is KL's transit system I believe. As for as KL Sentral and KL Monorail is concerned....well.....you could say that its due to political and businesss rivalry. Its been solved since early last year but the physical connectivity still had to wait as there is gonna be a mall in between the current KL Sentral station with the monorail station. So once the mall is completed....there's gonna be the monorail station in it. ....and the mall developement is KL Sentral's so it would be seemlessly connected to the station-proper.

Both Starline and Putraline (and so is the 2 major bus companies - CityLiner and Intrakota) are now under Syarikat Prasarana Berhad or commonly known as SPB (a govt-owned company) so integration woud be much easier. Initially there's bitter rivalry between Starline and Putraline so as expected - no integration of sorts

And the "Integrated Transit System Of Kuala Lumpur" map is an initiative of KL's City Hall of better things to come ....yea.... they even standardised all signage leading to the stations!

Heard that they planned to have KL Monorail and possibly KTM Komuter into SPB as well....I am crossing my fingers!
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Old August 24th, 2004, 10:54 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ignoramus

Wow so basically Malaysia has all along had a ''SECRET CARD''... Only Malaysians knew about the card.........until now...........
haha.....its not that secret actually.....cos the TnG logo is on the IC! ....haha....unless no one actually shown you his or her IC before

Anyway only IC cards issued after August 2002 had TnG (and host of other features as well as it is a 64K card).....so technically not all had em ( mine doesn't as mine are done in June 2002! )
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Old August 24th, 2004, 11:06 AM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by szehoong
Yea....they just awaken from their long slumber 2 years ago when they realised that their selfishness isn't doing anything good.

Then came the govt......The first to 'kena' is the toll operators as we used to have 4 contactless systems ....so since June last year - all toll operators had to have a TnG counter and 2 months back......all other contactless systems (with the exception of SmartTag - which uses TnG card) were decommissioned.

Now it is KL's transit system I believe. As for as KL Sentral and KL Monorail is concerned....well.....you could say that its due to political and businesss rivalry. Its been solved since early last year but the physical connectivity still had to wait as there is gonna be a mall in between the current KL Sentral station with the monorail station. So once the mall is completed....there's gonna be the monorail station in it. ....and the mall developement is KL Sentral's so it would be seemlessly connected to the station-proper.

Both Starline and Putraline (and so is the 2 major bus companies - CityLiner and Intrakota) are now under Syarikat Prasarana Berhad or commonly known as SPB (a govt-owned company) so integration woud be much easier. Initially there's bitter rivalry between Starline and Putraline so as expected - no integration of sorts

And the "Integrated Transit System Of Kuala Lumpur" map is an initiative of KL's City Hall of better things to come ....yea.... they even standardised all signage leading to the stations!

Heard that they planned to have KL Monorail and possibly KTM Komuter into SPB as well....I am crossing my fingers!
Okay I have a feeling this should be discussed about in the Malaysian forums...But no general rail thread there...

How does the Touch N Go logo look like? How does the standardised signages look like? Why would there be bitter rivalry if they serve different areas...Like KCR and MTR in HK and SBS Transit & SMRT in Singapore... Not much rivalry...

Its interesting what the authorities are finally doing... Soon KL will be in the league of ''smart'' cities (HK, Taipei, Singapore).

No offence...STARLINE trains look ugly... They look like LEGO Trains...those you buy in a box to build yourself using lego blocks...
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Old August 24th, 2004, 11:09 AM   #144
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I dream of the day where you can take a shuttle train (Something similar to Sentosa Express) from Singapore to Johor, like what they do from some KCR station??? in HK to Shenzhen...Cross border train...cool... Avoid that horrible jam at the causeway...even in an air conditioned bus, it isn't all that comfortable and the jam pisses me off...

If there is one in the future, its everyday shopping in Johor for chewing gum............hehe........
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Old August 24th, 2004, 11:25 AM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by szehoong
I believe EZLink losses a lot of money for those Single-trip tickets as those cards are definitely gonna cost more than SGD$1.........I think many losses or wanna keep those cards.......
I am not too sure about the single-trip tickets, but it is confirmed that they are seemingly lossing money due to lots of people buying more then one stored-value cards! So much so that a few months ago, they implimented a non-refundable deposit of $5 per card....grrrr.....

Just found out also that besides Macdonalds, the card is on trail at some school canteens, public libraries, a cinema, and a food outlet?

A possibility of the card not going into wide use all over here like the Octopus card might be because there are just too many conflicting systems? So many folks already use Credit/Debit cards. Even a non-earner like me have 2. There is the Cash Card, which is much more entrenched and is already in use relatatively widely. Having yet another cash-less means of payment would entail us having to carry at least 3 cards all the time?
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Old August 24th, 2004, 11:38 AM   #146
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Two cards that I need in Singapore
- ezlink card (Public transportation)
- Debit/NETS ATM Card (Purchases)

A card that I don't need in Singapore
- CashCard (Carparking & ERP & minor purchases)

Eventually I hope to only need 2
- ezlink card (minor purchases/expenditure a.k.a. transport)
- Debit card (Major purchases)

If they integrated the functions of the cashcard into the ezlink card, you will no longer have to carry useless cards in your wallet.

Last edited by ignoramus; August 24th, 2004 at 11:44 AM.
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Old August 24th, 2004, 11:41 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ignoramus
Tourists just have a thing against stored value cards. Just as tourists to Singapore don't purchase the ezlink card nor the Visitor's Card but instead purchase the Standard Ticket, a friend of mine who visited HK recently didn't purchase the tourist card there too but instead purchased the magnetic single trip one and kept one for me as a cheap but nice gift.

The main reason: Too big an initial investment of sorts... They assume that they don't commute around that much by train and bus. After all if taxi fares are cheap, why bother taking the train...

Anyways the card brings back memories of our magnetic card days...used to have nice pictures on them...Now on the standard tickets its just ''Standard Ticket'' written in large fonts on a green card. How can HK manage a multi operator and extensive system and still rely on magnetic. That was the reason that the Singapore operators decided to cancel out magnetic..

Hope that Singapore has a ezlink rewards system too...HK Has it... I think Taipei has it...

Even Mcdonalds has it...
Its kinda odd. I would have expected stored value cards to offer a slight discount, thereby enticing tourists to buy them. It offers them an added convenience, so they need not worry about transport options until they are ready to depart and get their refund of the deposit.

Anyway, they isnt really anything wrong with using magnetic cards for extensive and multiple operator rail/bus systems. Singapore has been managing it for quite a long time now, and frankly, most of us are simply not happy with the change. It was a tried and tested system, and an almost flawless one.

The change to contactless is touted as a means of speeding up passenger movement through the fare gates and up buses. But the biggest thing I have against this new system is the lack of self-control in my payment options, and difficulties in tracking them. While previously, we choose the fare ourselves and the machine automatically churns out a paper receipt together with our card, making it easy to track our expenses, this new system does it all for us, and leaves us with no physical records of transactions unless one have to go to a station and either view the last few transactions or print them out (for a fee).

This complete reliance on automation leaves us in their mercy. Why was there an uproar when people complain about being under or over charged by these "machines"....when in actual fact, it was a problem of the driver not manually updating the fare stages correctly? Finally, now they are going to roll our GPS tracking to allow for automatic fare stage updates. Just hope the trails will be smooth?

Sometimes I think public companies push for this change to contactless so that we can no longer cheat in our bus fare selections. Yeah, so much for trying to squeeze every cent out of us which they think is rightfully theirs, so when they overcharge us, what rights do we have to demand our few cents back?

Come to think of it, do Hong Kong bus commuters have to tap their cards when alighting from buses?
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Old August 24th, 2004, 11:50 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huaiwei
Its kinda odd. I would have expected stored value cards to offer a slight discount, thereby enticing tourists to buy them. It offers them an added convenience, so they need not worry about transport options until they are ready to depart and get their refund of the deposit.

Anyway, they isnt really anything wrong with using magnetic cards for extensive and multiple operator rail/bus systems. Singapore has been managing it for quite a long time now, and frankly, most of us are simply not happy with the change. It was a tried and tested system, and an almost flawless one.

The change to contactless is touted as a means of speeding up passenger movement through the fare gates and up buses. But the biggest thing I have against this new system is the lack of self-control in my payment options, and difficulties in tracking them. While previously, we choose the fare ourselves and the machine automatically churns out a paper receipt together with our card, making it easy to track our expenses, this new system does it all for us, and leaves us with no physical records of transactions unless one have to go to a station and either view the last few transactions or print them out (for a fee).

This complete reliance on automation leaves us in their mercy. Why was there an uproar when people complain about being under or over charged by these "machines"....when in actual fact, it was a problem of the driver not manually updating the fare stages correctly? Finally, now they are going to roll our GPS tracking to allow for automatic fare stage updates. Just hope the trails will be smooth?

Sometimes I think public companies push for this change to contactless so that we can no longer cheat in our bus fare selections. Yeah, so much for trying to squeeze every cent out of us which they think is rightfully theirs, so when they overcharge us, what rights do we have to demand our few cents back?

Come to think of it, do Hong Kong bus commuters have to tap their cards when alighting from buses?
I have a feeling they don't need to.

As mentioned earlier in the initial entries here, they start charging from where you board the bus until the end of the line... Its basically the same as Singapore's except in Singapore you tap upon exiting to get your refund of the distance you did not travel. In HK, they do not get a refund...

Anyways what do you mean by paper recepits, the General Ticketing Machine at MRT/LRT Stations have receipts...The only ugly ticketing machines do not... You still choose the fare in the new machines by means of pressing on the the desired station logo on the touch screen.

GPS will eliminate the problem, good...

Not really that efficient that old magnetic system, takes forever to board buses as the older people have to ask drivers the fare to press when boarding, delaying boarding time...And even for the younger commuters we do not know the fare when we board a bus service we have never been on before. Though tapping upon exiting is a hassle, at least we board faster and we don't have to memorise the fare table... AND MY CARD KEEPS GETTING STUCK IN THE TICKET VALIDATOR MACHINE IN THE BUSES...I have to use my nails to grab the edge of the magnetic ticket and pull the ticket out together with the recepit. And the buses become real dirty...
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Old August 24th, 2004, 11:52 AM   #149
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Oh ya did you know the ezlink web site lets you view your past transactions online.....................excluding the current day.....but from yesterday backwards........
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Old August 24th, 2004, 12:00 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ignoramus
Oh ya did you know the ezlink web site lets you view your past transactions online.....................excluding the current day.....but from yesterday backwards........

Touch N Go too had such system called E-Statement.......my friend informed me about EZLink's online thingy last month
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Old August 24th, 2004, 12:00 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ignoramus
Come to think of it...HK's network is damn long............What's the total system length for all subway lines...not light rail...
If I were to refer to info from Urbanrail:

Hong Kong:

Kwun Tong Ling: 12.5 km
Tsuen Wan Line: 16 km
Island Line: 14.7 km
Tung Chung Line: 30.8 km
Tseung Kwan O Line: 12.5 km
Total: 87.7 km (including Airport line), 50 stations.

Not sure if it was completely accurate or updated thou...it says the info was for 2002.
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Old August 24th, 2004, 12:04 PM   #152
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If you go by those stats Singapore's MRT system is longer at 51 Stations...But don't forget they have the KCR and it is not included in the stats............................ and even it it was since its 2002 it doesn't include the new KCR Station Nam Cheong...

Saw this comment made by EricIsHim in another thread.......he said somethign like the HK system map looks funny...I agree...a big hole in the middle of HK island etc....For a person like me who doesn't know the geography it is funny, like almost as if that area is jinxed...
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Old August 24th, 2004, 12:04 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ignoramus
I have a feeling they don't need to.

As mentioned earlier in the initial entries here, they start charging from where you board the bus until the end of the line... Its basically the same as Singapore's except in Singapore you tap upon exiting to get your refund of the distance you did not travel. In HK, they do not get a refund...



Yup.....in HK its different bus different fare.......they do not charge like in Singapore and KL where the fares are based on distances. I personally had no problem touching out upon exit ......although it is slightly less hassle not to touch at all

Seriously.....I like to use contactless cards for buses as it is convenient and more hygenic. It is also faster. As a tourist I struggled digging out coins for the buses on the first day and it is so much better with Octopus! .......likewise in KL and in Singapore!
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Old August 24th, 2004, 12:07 PM   #154
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I like the names for HK's MTR and KCR stations, very funky....Cantonese is a funky dialect........eg ''Kowloon, Tsim Cha Tsui is my favourite, Tung Chung, Central is very nice too''. I don't like ''Lai King though''. No offence to these names, just a general impression.... Sounds like a mix of chinese and english...

The new names on Punggol LRT in Singapore are horrible....and we thought the names on Bukit Panjang LRT & Sengkang LRT are horrible enough....
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Old August 24th, 2004, 12:07 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ignoramus
Anyways what do you mean by paper recepits, the General Ticketing Machine at MRT/LRT Stations have receipts...The only ugly ticketing machines do not... You still choose the fare in the new machines by means of pressing on the the desired station logo on the touch screen.

GPS will eliminate the problem, good...

Not really that efficient that old magnetic system, takes forever to board buses as the older people have to ask drivers the fare to press when boarding, delaying boarding time...And even for the younger commuters we do not know the fare when we board a bus service we have never been on before. Though tapping upon exiting is a hassle, at least we board faster and we don't have to memorise the fare table... AND MY CARD KEEPS GETTING STUCK IN THE TICKET VALIDATOR MACHINE IN THE BUSES...I have to use my nails to grab the edge of the magnetic ticket and pull the ticket out together with the recepit. And the buses become real dirty...
I am refering to stored value tickets. Magnetic cards gives u a paper receipt for each bus trip you take. Do ezlink cards give you that option?

And I am not so sure about you experiencing long delays when boarding buses due to the magnetic card. I have not seen a very huge difference comparing the recent travel and waiting times compared to what I have seen for over a decade via the magnetic card. If anything, it only delays the alighting time a little.

If you dont know the fare, press the cheapest fare!

And in all my years of using the magnetic card, I experience far less instances of stuck cards then havin error messages using the ezlink card in such a relatively brief period!
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Old August 24th, 2004, 12:12 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ignoramus
I like the names for HK's MTR and KCR stations, very funky....Cantonese is a funky dialect........eg ''Kowloon, Tsim Cha Tsui is my favourite, Tung Chung, Central is very nice too''. I don't like ''Lai King though''. No offence to these names, just a general impression.... Sounds like a mix of chinese and english...

The new names on Punggol LRT in Singapore are horrible....and we thought the names on Bukit Panjang LRT & Sengkang LRT are horrible enough....
I'm quite puzzled....whats so horrible about the LRT station's name??

I dun have a problem with the magnetic card......seems quite smooth for me also........
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Old August 24th, 2004, 12:18 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ignoramus
If you go by those stats Singapore's MRT system is longer at 51 Stations...But don't forget they have the KCR and it is not included in the stats............................ and even it it was since its 2002 it doesn't include the new KCR Station Nam Cheong...

Saw this comment made by EricIsHim in another thread.......he said somethign like the HK system map looks funny...I agree...a big hole in the middle of HK island etc....For a person like me who doesn't know the geography it is funny, like almost as if that area is jinxed...
You dont judge distances by counting stations. The 30.8km Tung Chung Line has just 7 stations, for example....not to mention the Airport line.

If you really want to compare:

Singapore:

Noth-South Line: 44 km
East-West Line: 45.4 km
Northeast Line: 20 km
Total: 109.4 km, 65 stations.

I have not included the LRT systems in the figures yet.

Finally, whats so wierd about that big hole in the middle? Isnt the hole in Singapore much more obvious and seemingly odd, except that Singaporeans obviously know why it is configured that way? Just go pick up a topographical and landuse map of Hong Kong and the same reasons will suffice!
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Old August 24th, 2004, 12:20 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huaiwei
I am refering to stored value tickets. Magnetic cards gives u a paper receipt for each bus trip you take. Do ezlink cards give you that option?

And I am not so sure about you experiencing long delays when boarding buses due to the magnetic card. I have not seen a very huge difference comparing the recent travel and waiting times compared to what I have seen for over a decade via the magnetic card. If anything, it only delays the alighting time a little.

If you dont know the fare, press the cheapest fare!

And in all my years of using the magnetic card, I experience far less instances of stuck cards then havin error messages using the ezlink card in such a relatively brief period!
I encountered perhaps 1 or 2 errors including times when the reader doesn't detect my card. But for the magnetic card, when it comes back out of the machine, on numeorous occasions it gives me a 0.5 cm area of the card to grab hole of and pull it out...And I don't bother about the receipt then as I know how much I spend (Its student fare).

Boarding is quicker IMO. You tap and you are in the bus....I remember in the past people kept asking for the fare..........very slow...especially when its raining and you need to hop in the bus quickly... Alighting it doesn't really delay if its only you and a few others cause on your way out you just tap. But if its a huge group of people, you will be delayed slightly...But definitely less than the delay experienced when boarding using magnetic tickets...

Yah I felt very guilty when I saw my mom pressing the correct fare...Like wasting money since you could have always pressed the cheapest one...but then again conductors kept checking tickets every now and then...
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Old August 24th, 2004, 12:23 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huaiwei
You dont judge distances by counting stations. The 30.8km Tung Chung Line has just 7 stations, for example....not to mention the Airport line.
yea....some of their lines have stations very far apart just like KL's ERL (KLIA Transit). And the trains travels at higher speed at these lines too
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Old August 24th, 2004, 12:30 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babystan03
I'm quite puzzled....whats so horrible about the LRT station's name??

I dun have a problem with the magnetic card......seems quite smooth for me also........
Okay I was mostly referring to the station names of:
PW7 - Soo Teck
PW1 - Sam Kee

It just sounds weird cause it seems to be the name of someone rather than location, and Singapore's MRT/LRT stations are usually named after locations... but anyways thats just a personal opinion, needs some getting used to.
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